Iran wants closer ties with Pakistan

[r3alist]

Closer ties and closer collaboration with Iran can bring stability to Pakistan's Balochistan province and also to Afghanistan.

but its crucial to know under what circumstances we have these "closer ties" - not this laughable idea of brotherly camaraderie - otherwise we are just open for manipulation.

i mean if iran start bringing up kashmir in the OIC, if they start supporting pakistan with more than empty gestures then and only then will i accept that they are SINCERE.

 

[Hussein]

but its crucial to know under what circumstances we have these "closer ties" - not this laughable idea of brotherly camaraderie - otherwise we are just open for manipulation.

i mean if iran start bringing up kashmir in the OIC, if they start supporting pakistan with more than empty gestures then and only then will i accept that they are SINCERE.

don't fall in the trap

Khamenei is saying this but he doesn't care about Pakistan

Iran is under boycott and leaded by people who want a war against US

Do you want to enter in his game?

This guy is sick. Do you know what he said about himself?
sometimes he is the representative of the 12th emam
sometimes he is the purest creature and son of prophet

Iranian people suffer of this dictatorship
don't get involved too much with them otherwise you'lle not only loose all your interest (being smart) and the friendship of the Iranian people

I would be you, i would do anything: not support anyone
just be neutral: it is the best position for Pakistan my friends

 

[Rafi]

don't fall in the trap

Khamenei is saying this but he doesn't care about Pakistan

Iran is under boycott and leaded by people who want a war against US

Do you want to enter in his game?

This guy is sick. Do you know what he said about himself?
sometimes he is the representative of the 12th emam
sometimes he is the purest creature and son of prophet

Iranian people suffer of this dictatorship
don't get involved too much with them otherwise you'lle not only loose all your interest (being smart) and the friendship of the Iranian people

I would be you, i would do anything: not support anyone
just be neutral: it is the best position for Pakistan my friends

Bro, we don't interfere in the internal affairs of our friends, if as you believe this regime is wrong, then you and the majority of Iranians should change it. Remember when the Shah was in charge in Iran - we were very close allies.

 

[r3alist]

Khamenei is saying this but he doesn't care about Pakistan

yes, atleast i know this, your (as in iran's) history of being india's man in the islamic world is proof enough.

 

[TechLahore]

yes, atleast i know this, your (as in iran's) history of being india's man in the islamic world is proof enough.

Utter hogwash. Go read up on the history of the OIC Rabat conference and figure out which countries supported India's request to attend, how Pakistan reacted and which side Iran was on. If you know someone in the foreign office, serving or former, talk to them. It would be good if you actually got a clue before taking hard positions that are indefensible.

And as for the recent history of Pak-Iran relations, just figure out whether the Sipah-e-Sahaba was formed first or groups that were reactions to it. Also look at who the Sipah-e-Sahaba first targeted. See if Sadiq Gaanji rings a bell. Look up who he was. Go read up on the Mazaar-e-Sharif massacre. Try and get a grip on which foreign countries/groups were pumping money into Pakistan to start this proxy war.

I suggest you educate yourself before getting all high and mighty and throwing around labels that are dismissive of a country that has been one of Pakistan's closest friends for much of its history.

 

[black_magic pk]

don't fall in the trap

Khamenei is saying this but he doesn't care about Pakistan

Iran is under boycott and leaded by people who want a war against US

Do you want to enter in his game?

This guy is sick. Do you know what he said about himself?
sometimes he is the representative of the 12th emam
sometimes he is the purest creature and son of prophet

Iranian people suffer of this dictatorship
don't get involved too much with them otherwise you'lle not only loose all your interest (being smart) and the friendship of the Iranian people

I would be you, i would do anything: not support anyone
just be neutral: it is the best position for Pakistan my friends

this is just air of positive gesture, pakistan is not fool to be fooled by words, but the concrete examples are laid to further the relations, example pak-iran gas pipeline and maybe more to come.. but im not aware of iranian future gestures towards pak relations, too much mistrust, recent rigi row, and hope things get better

 

[r3alist]

Utter hogwash. Go read up on the history of the OIC Rabat conference and figure out which countries supported India's request to attend, how Pakistan reacted and which side Iran was on. If you know someone in the foreign office, serving or former, talk to them. It would be good if you actually got a clue before taking hard positions that are indefensible.

.

if this article Revealed: Why Iran did for India and why it hurts

is anything to go by then i stand by my words


that they are working with india against pakistan in afghanistan is pretty well known as well.

they they see gwadar as a rival is pretty obvious as well.


relations with iran are hardly "smooth" - approach with caution is all i am saying

 

[TechLahore]

Wonderful. Instead of relying on actual historical scholarship, you are going on an article. And that too published in that trashy rag, Rediff. Great. 'Nuff said.

 

[r3alist]

Wonderful. Instead of relying on actual historical scholarship, you are going on an article. And that too published in that trashy rag, Rediff. Great. 'Nuff said.

i would like to see this historical scholarship you speak of


otherwise your argument is once again a complete straw man, please stop it - its a weak bullying tactic, pay attention to the author of the article, your logic is akin to dismissing a direct quote because it appears in a "trashy rag", and of course if you read my words carefully i added a slight qualifier - namely if the author is telling the truth then mines is a fair comment


there are ofcourse broader strategic diversions pakistan and iran have, i wish they weren't there but reality is they are...

 

[Rafi]

i would like to see this historical scholarship you speak of


otherwise your argument is once again a complete straw man, please stop it - its a weak bullying tactic, pay attention to the author of the article, your logic is akin to dismissing a direct quote because it appears in a "trashy rag", and of course if you read my words carefully i added a slight qualifier - namely if the author is telling the truth then mines is a fair comment


there are ofcourse broader strategic diversions pakistan and iran have, i wish they weren't there but reality is they are...

You sir, are a troll - take your sectarian crap somewhere else.

 

[Hussein]

if this article Revealed: Why Iran did for India and why it hurts

is anything to go by then i stand by my words


that they are working with india against pakistan in afghanistan is pretty well known as well.

they they see gwadar as a rival is pretty obvious as well.


relations with iran are hardly "smooth" - approach with caution is all i am saying

It is nothing to do with India prefered to Pakistan, believe me

I am just saying this:
ok for pipeline and anything that can be good for your country, go ahead . Pakistan should think about its interests and i am sincerely happy if any good hapening to your countyr, believe me

Here i am just speaking about the situation now : the situation where a group is wishing a conflict with Westerns , as they say the zionist bad people and so
Khamenei is famous for being a liar and a sick minded person: if you want i can provide you all sources in persian where he says what i sad above that he believes he is the representative o fthe 12th emam
What he wants is YOU enter in this game of conflict
You really think that it could be good for you?

Of course i know all problems with US who didn't support you for the good job you do on fighting ttp, and other groups and even Rigi job
Of course i know how much pain you have with the relations with India but i am not a specialist so i can just learn from this forum

Honnestly, what would be the interest for me you didn't enter in a conflict if i didn't like your country?
if i didn't like your country i would clearly support this idea you enter in a conflict that you would of course loose: maybe not a war but you would loose so much credit and your people ... for what?

 

[TechLahore]

Let me get this straight. You are basing your opinion of Pakistan and Iran's relationship on this single article? And cut the crap about "bullying", because if you consider being called on your cluelessness, "bullying" then perhaps you needed more of it in your earlier years. If nothing else, it would have given you a factual leg to stand on before you threw around labels such as "india's man".

Here are some recent and historic facts for you to consider. Please understand that if you are interested in the subject, it is up to you to educate yourself. I can't do that for you so instead of asking me for references, go do some legwork yourself.
Up until 1998, this is how the US thought Iran would react to an attack on Pakistan:
If there is a Nuclear War Between Pakistan & India - ContactPakistan.com

Pakistan-Iranian cooperation re anti-terrorism
Iran's Arrest of Extremist Rigi: Did Pakistan Help? - TIME

Killings of Iranian diplomats and air force officers in Pakistan
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Analysis and history of Pak Iran relations by Dr. R. Khan
Pakistan-Iran relations in perspective | Pakistan Daily

Pak-Iran relations since 1947 - official Iranian Embassy website - note statements re India and Kashmir
Pak-Iran Relation Since 1947

[Indian paper] Chronicles the history of Pak-Iran relations from an Indian perspective and includes Iran's reaction to the 1998 nuclear tests by Pakistan, Khatami's outreach, sectarian issues, the background of Mazar-e-Sharif and what the Taliban did there etc.
http://www.idsa.in/system/files/strategicanalysis_salam_1204.pdf

There's tons more. Keep looking and reading. As I said, if you know someone in the Pakistan foreign office (serving or retired) talk to them. Your perspective on Iran being untrustworthy is not borne out by the facts. Ups and downs in this relationship have not been due to Iran's "untrustworthiness", they have been due to choices made. The single biggest choice, by the way, was support of the Taliban.
http://www.idsa.in/system/files/strategicanalysis_salam_1204.pdf

India and the Middle East - Google Books

 

[A1Kaid]

What do Iranian 'brotherly' people personally think of Pakistanis?

I've heard the opinions of many Iranians, much of it isn't nice (in fact insulting and provocative) nor did they express any care or concern for Pakistan that you would normally expect a "brother" to do. However, there were some moderate voices who expressed a sense a mutual friendship and peace with Pakistan.

So a better way to see through this prism is to ask what the people on both isles think of each other?



P.S of course the two governments may be able to cooperate and expand ties. However, I'm focusing on the actual people themselves and their thoughts of one another.

 

[TechLahore]

It is nothing to do with India prefered to Iran, believe me

I am just saying this:
ok for pipeline and anything that can be good for your country, go ahead . Pakistan should think about its interests and i am sincerely happy if any good hapening to your countyr, believe me

Hussein, neither will Iran enter a conflict just because Pakistan is asking it to, and nor will Pakistan if the opposite holds true. The issue is not whether Pakistan should fight a war against the west alongside Iran. (I don't believe Iran wants a war with the west, by the way). The issue is whether Iran and Pakistan have been friends and whether this friendship is rooted in history, common interests (e.g. stability in Baluchistan, stability on the Pak-Iran border as both countries have had to contend with one "problematic" border, preventing foreign powers from using Pakistani or Iranian soil to hurt the other, preventing sectarianism and so on) and a strong track record of both countries supporting each other when it really mattered. Whether it is Iran's recognition of Pakistan in 1947, its support and military aid to Pakistan in 1965 and post that period (delivery of Sabre jets), its support of Pakistan's decision to go nuclear or Pakistan's assistance to Iran by acting as a conduit for spare parts during the Iran-Iraq war, recent help in capturing Rigi and numerous other such episodes.

The post-Soviet scenario in Afghanistan became a very problematic situation for Pak-Iran relations unfortunately. However, I don't think anyone in Pakistan though the Taliban would go to the extent they did in Mazar-e-Sharif, or act with the unspeakable barbarity they exhibited toward the Hazaras. I believe President Khatami's trip to Pakistan and President Musharraf's trip to Iran post 2002 were two major steps in putting this nonsense behind us. There are still issues, but they can be worked out. Iran and Pakistan, from a strategic, demographic and economic perspective, need to be friends and are, in fact, natural friends. Perpetuating distrust between these two countries is only in the interest of those who wish either Pakistan or Iran ill.

 

[Hussein]

P.S of course the two governments may be able to cooperate and expand ties. However, I'm focusing on the actual people themselves and their thoughts of one another.

this is very hard to answer about everyone. i give one point which is sure and my opinion.
First there are extremist groups who didn't like Pakistan for many reasons:
royalists because they look at you like middle age people (but royalists are almost dead :almost nobody supporting them)
communists
sectarian shias: like hojatieh sect and extremist shias.Among them Ahmadinejad said many times he was thinking sunnis are inferior to shias. Khamenei nammed as responsible of spiritual formation of basiji... Mesbah Yazdi , the boss of the hojatieh. This sect is believing we should make a hell in this world so the 12th emam comes back. they are extremists who see other than shias as bastards.

But for the 95% of the Iranian people: most of them have no bad feeling about Pakistanis. For exemple we were all sad about flooding and believe me most Iranians (except a few said before) they don't like the big game in the region and we remember Mossadegh very much . You know what i mean.

There is no animosity between us, except for extremists.