Iran to add a new Midget sub in the comming month

[AmirPatriot]

Actually he makes a very valid point... IRI makes these grandiose claims about the latest this and that but they turn out to be duds.

It's not a "grandiose claim" that Iran will be delivering the last of a class of 120 ton midget submarines to the navy. He's just badmouthing Iran for the sake of doing so. Iran has made dozens of these submarines, and you can see them for yourself on Google earth.

 

[VEVAK]

Again being able to build a big ship is not enough ,the design must be able to endure a certain amount of stress ,and it must be capable of changing path and speed very faster than an aftamax .
Its engine is in another class compared to a commercial ship.
A military design unlike commercial one must be capable of this

Now show me maneuvering capabilities of an aftamax

Ayeh nayoumadeh keh!

So what if an Iranian Helo carrier max out at 20 knots rather than 30knots!
So what if an Iranian Helo carrier is less maneuverable then other Helo carriers in the world?

How fast & maneuverable do you think Iran's Karg Class replenishment ships is today?

Do you think 10-15 knots difference in speed & greater maneuverability would protect a ship that size against cruise missiles?

Iran's Karg Class also maxes out at only 20 knots! So your not loosing anything in terms of speed compared to your other replenishment ship!

But what you do get with a ship that size is the ability to put more advanced SAM & Sensors onboard, an more capable offensive capability against sea and ground targets, the ability to launch Helo's and armed UAV's & the ability to replenish your fleet

And those are capabilities that do far more to protect your ships and the fleet they travel with than speed and maneuverability!

 

[Hack-Hook]

Ayeh nayoumadeh keh!

So what if an Iranian Helo carrier max out at 20 knots rather than 30knots!
So what if an Iranian Helo carrier is less maneuverable then other Helo carriers in the world?

How fast & maneuverable do you think Iran's Karg Class replenishment ships is today?

Do you think 10-15 knots difference in speed & greater maneuverability would protect a ship that size against cruise missiles?

Iran's Karg Class also maxes out at only 20 knots! So your not loosing anything in terms of speed compared to your other replenishment ship!

But what you do get with a ship that size is the ability to put more advanced SAM & Sensors onboard, an more capable offensive capability against sea and ground targets, the ability to launch Helo's and armed UAV's & the ability to replenish your fleet

And those are capabilities that do far more to protect your ships and the fleet they travel with than speed and maneuverability!

There is no karg class of ships but if you mean kharg ship then its an Ol-class tanker that has no business participating in any warfare.
And those maneuverability can save your *** against torpedoes. And from this class 4 ship was build 3 for English which they retired them 20 years ago and replaced them with tide and wave class of ships and one for Iran that we still use because we have no alternative.

By the way why not build a big barge and call it warship ? Why not build 2000 zero airplane and say we have largest airforce?

 

[Śakra]

How cute is that mini-sub lol!

 

[Fafnir]

How cute is that mini-sub lol!

Yes...and deadly too,as it was exactly one of this same type that was considered to be responsible for the sinking of the rok navy vessel cheonan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking

 

[Ultima Thule]

if i get a penny for every lie that comes out from iran defence news i will become a billionaire in no time. with hobby grade techology iran is only fooling iran.

No sir at least Iranian building sub from their own from propulsion to electronic sensors and where Pakistan stand for Pakistan are stuck idle in the sub manufacturing capabilities

Again being able to build a big ship is not enough ,the design must be able to endure a certain amount of stress ,and it must be capable of changing path and speed very faster than an aftamax .
Its engine is in another class compared to a commercial ship.
A military design unlike commercial one must be capable of this

Now show me maneuvering capabilities of an aftamax

Atleast they're trying

 

[VEVAK]

There is no karg class of ships but if you mean kharg ship then its an Ol-class tanker that has no business participating in any warfare.
And those maneuverability can save your *** against torpedoes. And from this class 4 ship was build 3 for English which they retired them 20 years ago and replaced them with tide and wave class of ships and one for Iran that we still use because we have no alternative.

By the way why not build a big barge and call it warship ? Why not build 2000 zero airplane and say we have largest airforce?

LOL! Do you honestly think maneuverability of a ships the size of an Aircraft carrier would make the slightest difference against modern torpedo's equipped with modern sensors? The answer is NO!

As for the speed of a ship yes 10 knots will have a small mount of difference in the engagement range if your ever being chased by a Subs but again at the end of the day SO WHAT????

Yea lets NOT build a Helo Carrier armed with Helo's, UAV's, SAM, AshCM,.... all because if it's EVER chanced by an American sub it's engagement range would be a tad shorter than other Helo Carriers of the world!
And that supposedly makes sense to you somehow?

Just because an Iranian Helo carrier will be 10 knots slower than other helo carrier then we shouldn't build it! That is absurd!
What about helicopters? should we stop building helo's because Iranian Helo's are slower?
What about Tanks? Should we also stop building tanks until we can build a Tank as fast as the Abrams?

Lets face it that's a NONSESE excuse!

 

[Hack-Hook]

LOL! Do you honestly think maneuverability of a ships the size of an Aircraft carrier would make the slightest difference against modern torpedo's equipped with modern sensors? The answer is NO!

As for the speed of a ship yes 10 knots will have a small mount of difference in the engagement range if your ever being chased by a Subs but again at the end of the day SO WHAT????

Yea lets NOT build a Helo Carrier armed with Helo's, UAV's, SAM, AshCM,.... all because if it's EVER chanced by an American sub it's engagement range would be a tad shorter than other Helo Carriers of the world!
And that supposedly makes sense to you somehow?

Just because an Iranian Helo carrier will be 10 knots slower than other helo carrier then we shouldn't build it! That is absurd!
What about helicopters? should we stop building helo's because Iranian Helo's are slower?
What about Tanks? Should we also stop building tanks until we can build a Tank as fast as the Abrams?

Lets face it that's a NONSESE excuse!

You don't get it . that ship will be a sitting duck in case of any engagement .
And you are wrong about importance of maneuvaribility .
What yo propose is waste of resources . the precious resources that could have been spent on a suitable design .

You want a helicopter carrier well go build one not build a bulk carrier and then say its a military ship.

This is a real small helicopter carrier that is more suitable for Iran
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyūga-class_helicopter_destroyer
If we want to build one

 

[AmirPatriot]

Helicopter carriers are mostly useful if our adversary has heavy use of submarines, since helicopters are mostly ASW assets in modern naval warfare. While the US has a lot of powerful submarines, the greatest threat comes from their carriers. Iran has to keep focusing on A2/AD, and we have to expand our A2/AD range into the Gulf of Oman and Indian Ocean. The difficulty with this approach is that the US is pivoting towards containing China and will therefore be tailoring their military towards fighting A2/AD threats.

 

[zartosht]

got to respect the men who serve on these. performing such dangerous work for the sake of Iranian national security. good videos on youtube on submarine life. definitely not something most people could do.

one thing to mention vevak: civilian industry benefits should be a positive side effect of military investments.. not the primary motivation.

you seem to be for building things for the sake of building them pretty much.. You want to spend a lot of resources to build a very sub standard helo carrier. Put hundreds of sailors lives , and irans national prestige on the line. On an a floating coffin that any semi serious adversary would easily take out ....

what is the point of that ? whats the military value of such a white elephant? it would just be a liability in case of war.

 

[VEVAK]

You don't get it . that ship will be a sitting duck in case of any engagement .
And you are wrong about importance of maneuvaribility .
What yo propose is waste of resources . the precious resources that could have been spent on a suitable design .

You want a helicopter carrier well go build one not build a bulk carrier and then say its a military ship.

This is a real small helicopter carrier that is more suitable for Iran
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyūga-class_helicopter_destroyer
If we want to build one

Building none symmetric Aircraft carrier design would be ill advisable for an Iranian Helo carrier

And whether it's 700ft long or 800 ft long! Whether it tops out at 30 knots or 20 knots in the end it doesn't make that much of a difference against modern weapons systems

A 700ft long ship with a speed of 30 knots is as big a target as a 800ft long ship sailing at 20 knots!
At the end of the day the main thing that would make a difference is the sensors, countermeasures and weapon systems those ships are equipped with that would make the real difference against incoming Aircrafts and cruise missiles!


As for subs most modern U.S. attack subs are equipped with Anti ship Cruise Missiles so they don't need to get within torpedo range to hit you in fact it's doubtful that they would put their subs & lives at risk to get within torpedo range when they have better options at their disposal to 1st disable your ship then come in for a kill shot and at that point it really wouldn't matter if your ship is 300ft long Mowj class with a speed of 35knots or 800ft long carrier with a speed of 20knots


And people like you constantly keep assuming that the U.S. is the ONLY threat facing Iran!


And again AS LONG AS IRAN builds it's own weapon systems it IS NOT a waist of resources!!!

And Iran's true resources is it's Human Resources and allowing Iran's current ample amount of work force and human resources to go to waist knowing full well that in 20 years they will not be there regardless of how much money Iran has or doesn't have is the true resources that's being wasted today by our government!!! NOT money!

Keeping large stocks of cash in banks rather than using it to build the country in the next 20 years while we have the human resources is the true waist!

 

[Hack-Hook]

Building none symmetric Aircraft carrier design would be ill advisable for an Iranian Helo carrier

And whether it's 700ft long or 800 ft long! Whether it tops out at 30 knots or 20 knots in the end it doesn't make that much of a difference against modern weapons systems

A 700ft long ship with a speed of 30 knots is as big a target as a 800ft long ship sailing at 20 knots!
At the end of the day the main thing that would make a difference is the sensors, countermeasures and weapon systems those ships are equipped with that would make the real difference against incoming Aircrafts and cruise missiles!


As for subs most modern U.S. attack subs are equipped with Anti ship Cruise Missiles so they don't need to get within torpedo range to hit you in fact it's doubtful that they would put their subs & lives at risk to get within torpedo range when they have better options at their disposal to 1st disable your ship then come in for a kill shot and at that point it really wouldn't matter if your ship is 300ft long Mowj class with a speed of 35knots or 800ft long carrier with a speed of 20knots


And people like you constantly keep assuming that the U.S. is the ONLY threat facing Iran!


And again AS LONG AS IRAN builds it's own weapon systems it IS NOT a waist of resources!!!

And Iran's true resources is it's Human Resources and allowing Iran's current ample amount of work force and human resources to go to waist knowing full well that in 20 years they will not be there regardless of how much money Iran has or doesn't have is the true resources that's being wasted today by our government!!! NOT money!

Keeping large stocks of cash in banks rather than using it to build the country in the next 20 years while we have the human resources is the true waist!

You still failed to to tell me why build something that is a sitting duck in any conflict . does the live of the sailors means nothing to you.

And attack subs come in range of the targets if they want to kill it . you can destroy a frigate with antiship missiles but for bigger things you need bigger guns.

And you didn't told me why not build an armada of zero airplanes let say 3000 of them

Why not build 6000 m48 tanks and have the largest armored division in middle east . why not equip our soldiers with m1? Its very powerful and we can make lots of them for cheap.

The point of weapon is not building them alone you build them so you can use them in war not just for fulfilling your pride until they proven useless in face of the enemies.

 

[VEVAK]

Helicopter carriers are mostly useful if our adversary has heavy use of submarines, since helicopters are mostly ASW assets in modern naval warfare. While the US has a lot of powerful submarines, the greatest threat comes from their carriers. Iran has to keep focusing on A2/AD, and we have to expand our A2/AD range into the Gulf of Oman and Indian Ocean. The difficulty with this approach is that the US is pivoting towards containing China and will therefore be tailoring their military towards fighting A2/AD threats.

In terms of known weapons systems against "fixed" targets on the ground the U.S. or even Saudi Arabia can deploy F-15E armed with 16 SDB (GBU-39) & fuel pod that can approach from low altitude and fire on targets with deadly precision from 100km away



Saudi's have over 180 F-15E (Which means then can use ~100 in an initial attack and keep 40 in the air every day after)

That means with about 60% of their F-15's in an initial strike armed with SDB's they can take out almost 1000 Iranian targets from outside the range of Iranian SAM's

Even if we had 100 S-300's placed all across Iran's southern cost it still wouldn't make a difference because without interceptors to back them up & strike capability to prevent further attacks SAM by themselves are not sufficient.


As for what Helo carriers are used for depends solely on how Iran chooses to build them and what they choose to arm them with!

Iran's Naval fleet is going to require replenishment ships now we can build or buy replenishment ships that practically do nothing but refuel ships or one with limited offensive or defensive capability
Or you can build around a larger vessel that can not only fuel your fleet but deploy Helo's, armed UAV's, that is also equipped with an advanced Air Defense system and good amount of SAM that can provide cover for the rest of your fleet against incoming fighter jet.....
And during peace time you'll be able to send special forces out with Helo's backed by armed UAV's & attack Helo's to protect your civilian ships against pirates.....

You still failed to to tell me why build something that is a sitting duck in any conflict . does the live of the sailors means nothing to you.

And attack subs come in range of the targets if they want to kill it . you can destroy a frigate with antiship missiles but for bigger things you need bigger guns.

And you didn't told me why not build an armada of zero airplanes let say 3000 of them

Why not build 6000 m48 tanks and have the largest armored division in middle east . why not equip our soldiers with m1? Its very powerful and we can make lots of them for cheap.

The point of weapon is not building them alone you build them so you can use them in war not just for fulfilling your pride until they proven useless in face of the enemies.

Again your logic is ABSURD! By your logic Iran should never build any ships, aircraft, tanks, IFV, APC,... because the ones the Americans build is superior!!

FYI Our solders would be safer in an invasion if they don't have any military gear at all and are dressed in civilian clothing!!! So by your logic if anyone ever attempts to invade Iran we should just surrender the country from the beginning because our solders will be safer that way! MY GOD!!!!

As for the Subs I specifically said they would disable your ship & then come in for a kill shot! And against modern cruise missiles with modern sensors a 650ft ships with a speed of 30knots is as easy a target as a 800ft ship at 20 knots
Any by your own logic the hull of a large 800ft long ship is more likely to survive a hit than a lighter 650ft long carrier


And the point of building weapons is NOT always about WAR! That is short sighted!

 

[Hack-Hook]

In terms of known weapons systems against "fixed" targets on the ground the U.S. or even Saudi Arabia can deploy F-15E armed with 16 SDB (GBU-39) & fuel pod that can approach from low altitude and fire on targets with deadly precision from 100km away



Saudi's have over 180 F-15E (Which means then can use ~100 in an initial attack and keep 40 in the air every day after)

That means with about 60% of their F-15's in an initial strike armed with SDB's they can take out almost 1000 Iranian targets from outside the range of Iranian SAM's

Even if we had 100 S-300's placed all across Iran's southern cost it still wouldn't make a difference because without interceptors to back them up & strike capability to prevent further attacks SAM by themselves are not sufficient.


As for what Helo carriers are used for depends solely on how Iran chooses to build them and what they choose to arm them with!

Iran's Naval fleet is going to require replenishment ships now we can build or buy replenishment ships that practically do nothing but refuel ships or one with limited offensive or defensive capability
Or you can build around a larger vessel that can not only fuel your fleet but deploy Helo's, armed UAV's, that is also equipped with an advanced Air Defense system and good amount of SAM that can provide cover for the rest of your fleet against incoming fighter jet.....
And during peace time you'll be able to send special forces out with Helo's backed by armed UAV's & attack Helo's to protect your civilian ships against pirates.....



Again your logic is ABSURD! By your logic Iran should never build any ships, aircraft, tanks, IFV, APC,... because the ones the Americans build is superior!!

FYI Our solders would be safer in an invasion if they don't have any military gear at all and are dressed in civilian clothing!!! So by your logic if anyone ever attempts to invade Iran we should just surrender the country from the beginning because our solders will be safer that way! MY GOD!!!!

As for the Subs I specifically said they would disable your ship & then come in for a kill shot! And against modern cruise missiles with modern sensors a 650ft ships with a speed of 30knots is as easy a target as a 800ft ship at 20 knots
Any by your own logic the hull of a large 800ft long ship is more likely to survive a hit than a lighter 650ft long carrier


And the point of building weapons is NOT always about WAR! That is short sighted!

No its not as simple as that .
If you want a support ship that go 30km/h you are welcome but you also have limited the speed of your other ships deployment.

Also unlike a civilian vessel a military design is built around the fact that its supposed to survive several attack.
The ships you proposed will sank after 1 or 2 missile the ship I show you can survive torpedoes

Also what's the use of building carriers without building the escort to protect them ?
If you convert an oil tanker to a support ship .the first missile that strike it will turn it to a fireball that Sanchi was walk in the park

 

[AmirPatriot]

In terms of known weapons systems against "fixed" targets on the ground the U.S. or even Saudi Arabia can deploy F-15E armed with 16 SDB (GBU-39) & fuel pod that can approach from low altitude and fire on targets with deadly precision from 100km away



Saudi's have over 180 F-15E (Which means then can use ~100 in an initial attack and keep 40 in the air every day after)

That means with about 60% of their F-15's in an initial strike armed with SDB's they can take out almost 1000 Iranian targets from outside the range of Iranian SAM's

Even if we had 100 S-300's placed all across Iran's southern cost it still wouldn't make a difference because without interceptors to back them up & strike capability to prevent further attacks SAM by themselves are not sufficient.


As for what Helo carriers are used for depends solely on how Iran chooses to build them and what they choose to arm them with!

I am working on a blog post about A2/AD which I think Iran would be wise to adopt in the future, we can discuss A2/AD as a full strategy rather than in terms of isolated parts.