Iran to add a new Midget sub in the comming month

[VEVAK]

I am working on a blog post about A2/AD which I think Iran would be wise to adopt in the future, we can discuss A2/AD as a full strategy rather than in terms of isolated parts.

That would be nice! I would like to see how you propose to deny them access to our Air Space because once an enemy takes over your Air Space & denies you access to your own Air Space the rest is easy!

Iran is larger than UK, France, Germany & Italy combined so SAM systems alone will never have that capability by themselves

I would like to know specifically what weapon systems you propose to use to combat F-15's equipped with SDB's capable of firing on you from 100km away?
Yes older GPS versions can be jammed to disrupt their accuracy to a point that would make their limited destructive power more superficial but right now in terms of processing power and data storage the tech is there to build optical mapping that works along side an INS that would have even greater accuracy than a GPS version that's small enough to fit in a compact PGM like the SDB

 

[AmirPatriot]

I would like to know specifically what weapon systems you propose to use to combat F-15's equipped with SDB's capable of firing on you from 100km away?

Ideally, they wouldn't get that close. Even SAMs alone can outrange those, though I don't think we should rely on them solely.

 

[VEVAK]

Ideally, they wouldn't get that close. Even SAMs alone can outrange those, though I don't think we should rely on them solely.

That's just wishful thinking! And you can't base a defense around wishful thinking!

1st Even if we had 200 Su-57 you couldn't prevent a surprise attack but what will change is your ability to dictate what happens after.

2ndly Even if Iran builds or buys a SAM system with a range of 200km with a +Mach 3 missiles the only thing that will change is that your enemies will respond by using or building an air to ground missile with a greater range to go after those sites and that's why SAM systems alone will never be sufficient!​

Today if F-15's start dropping SDB even from 70km away by the time you know without a reasonable doubt that your being attacked those fighters will be well outside even the range of your S-300's. And if you don't have the Aircraft to intercept or the weapons systems necessary to properly attack their base then they can keep doing that every day.....

Modern tech has overly simplified the ability of well equipped militaries to engage in large number of fixed ground targets from long distances.

Saudi Arabia is outspending Russia and India and so far the Rohani Administration has shown it's self to be quite incompetent in the face of that threat

 

[AmirPatriot]

View attachment 456450

That's just wishful thinking! And you can't base a defense around wishful thinking!

1st Even if we had 200 Su-57 you couldn't prevent a surprise attack but what will change is your ability to dictate what happens after.

2ndly Even if Iran builds or buys a SAM system with a range of 200km with a +Mach 3 missiles the only thing that will change is that your enemies will respond by using or building an air to ground missile with a greater range to go after those sites and that's why SAM systems alone will never be sufficient!​

Today if F-15's start dropping SDB even from 70km away by the time you know without a reasonable doubt that your being attacked those fighters will be well outside even the range of your S-300's. And if you don't have the Aircraft to intercept or the weapons systems necessary to properly attack their base then they can keep doing that every day.....

Modern tech has overly simplified the ability of well equipped militaries to engage in large number of fixed ground targets from long distances.

Saudi Arabia is outspending Russia and India and so far the Rohani Administration has shown it's self to be quite incompetent in the face of that threat

A2/AD is a primarily a naval doctrine and my post is focused on keeping US aircraft carriers away. But the large air force required for A2/AD would also be used in a war against a regional country like Saudi Arabia.

Today if F-15's start dropping SDB even from 70km away by the time you know without a reasonable doubt that your being attacked those fighters will be well outside even the range of your S-300's.

They'd have to actually get within 70 km first. A strike force of F-15s shows up on the radar, heading towards SAM sites and ports... it gets noticed.

1st Even if we had 200 Su-57 you couldn't prevent a surprise attack but what will change is your ability to dictate what happens after.

With good intelligence and readiness, there won't be a surprise attack.

 

[Stryker1982]

View attachment 456450

That's just wishful thinking! And you can't base a defense around wishful thinking!

1st Even if we had 200 Su-57 you couldn't prevent a surprise attack but what will change is your ability to dictate what happens after.

2ndly Even if Iran builds or buys a SAM system with a range of 200km with a +Mach 3 missiles the only thing that will change is that your enemies will respond by using or building an air to ground missile with a greater range to go after those sites and that's why SAM systems alone will never be sufficient!​

Today if F-15's start dropping SDB even from 70km away by the time you know without a reasonable doubt that your being attacked those fighters will be well outside even the range of your S-300's. And if you don't have the Aircraft to intercept or the weapons systems necessary to properly attack their base then they can keep doing that every day.....

Modern tech has overly simplified the ability of well equipped militaries to engage in large number of fixed ground targets from long distances.

Saudi Arabia is outspending Russia and India and so far the Rohani Administration has shown it's self to be quite incompetent in the face of that threat

This is why the importance of being able to create a rapid and very lethal response capability is key, because no matter what weapons you deploy, even the most cutting edge, you can't fully defend from a large surprise attack but you can react to it. And react hard

 

[VEVAK]

A2/AD is a primarily a naval doctrine and my post is focused on keeping US aircraft carriers away. But the large air force required for A2/AD would also be used in a war against a regional country like Saudi Arabia.



They'd have to actually get within 70 km first. A strike force of F-15s shows up on the radar, heading towards SAM sites and ports... it gets noticed.



With good intelligence and readiness, there won't be a surprise attack.

Even for Saudi Arabia getting within 70km would be quite simple and could easily be accomplished in a surprise attack

Groups of 4 F-15E + 2 F-15C on approach from low altitude from 10 different routs twice a day with each F-15E armed with 16 SDB that's over 1200 targets hit with only 80 F-15E's & 40 F-15C used in one day.

The only true defense against such an attack is your offensive capabilities and the ability to respond with an overwhelming force after they hit 1200 of your military targets in the initial attack and how the rest of the war would go would rest solely on how well you can respond

 

[Stryker1982]

Even for Saudi Arabia getting within 70km would be quite simple and could easily be accomplished in a surprise attack

Groups of 4 F-15E + 2 F-15C on approach from low altitude from 10 different routs twice a day with each F-15E armed with 16 SDB that's over 1200 targets hit with only 80 F-15E's & 40 F-15C used in one day.

The only true defense against such an attack is your offensive capabilities and the ability to respond with an overwhelming force after they hit 1200 of your military targets in the initial attack and how the rest of the war would go would rest solely on how well you can respond

Yes in theory 1200 targets but Iran doesn't have 1200 targets along its coast or near the southern border. Saudi airforce would have to penetrate deep into Iranian territory to attack a majority of Iran's assets which are located in the north and central parts of the country.

Even for Saudi Arabia getting within 70km would be quite simple and could easily be accomplished in a surprise attack

Groups of 4 F-15E + 2 F-15C on approach from low altitude from 10 different routs twice a day with each F-15E armed with 16 SDB that's over 1200 targets hit with only 80 F-15E's & 40 F-15C used in one day.

The only true defense against such an attack is your offensive capabilities and the ability to respond with an overwhelming force after they hit 1200 of your military targets in the initial attack and how the rest of the war would go would rest solely on how well you can respond

The only fear is what would happen to the navy and it's facilities otherwise their is no worry about Tehran or Isfahan being targrta

 

[AmirPatriot]

Groups of 4 F-15E + 2 F-15C on approach from low altitude from 10 different routs twice a day with each F-15E armed with 16 SDB that's over 1200 targets hit with only 80 F-15E's & 40 F-15C used in one day.

SDBs are glide bombs, they won't get anywhere near 70 km if you plan to release them at low altitude...

 

[VEVAK]

Yes in theory 1200 targets but Iran doesn't have 1200 targets along its coast or near the southern border. Saudi airforce would have to penetrate deep into Iranian territory to attack a majority of Iran's assets which are located in the north and central parts of the country.


The only fear is what would happen to the navy and it's facilities otherwise their is no worry about Tehran or Isfahan being targrta

1st that was just an example of what 80 F-15E can do! That's not all the Aircraft the Saudi's have and SDB's are not the only PGM they have for them to be restricted to Costal Targets alone

And although they don't need to use that many SDB's but 1,200 targets across Iran's southern cost line is nothing! There are Iranian Air Defense, Naval & Air Force targets across Iran's cost line and SDB use small warheads so a single SDB is only built to takeout one specific target like an AAA or a SAM Tel or one small bunker hosing a single costal defense battery...

I can tell you that there are easily well over 200 Targets or more off Iranian Islands alone Gheshm, Siri, Tonb Kocheek, Tonb Bozorg, Lark, Hormoz, Abu Musa, Khark, Lavan...


On the 1st day against the Saudi's, strikes in Esfahan and Shiraz will likely be limited because Iran's Air Force just doesn't pose that great a threat and hits against Missile Bases from long distances will be superficial so they'd need to work on Iranian Air Defense sites before they can reach those sites and without an Air Force apposing them they can work their way up and create a safe rout

 

[VEVAK]

SDBs are glide bombs, they won't get anywhere near 70 km if you plan to release them at low altitude...

I never said anything about what altitude they would release them. I said F-15's can approach from low altitude and undetected & that restricts Iran's ability to send an aircraft up to see what's going on & it restricts Iran from having the time to put it's Air Defense units on guard....

And I wouldn't bank on an SDB or a similar system not having a power plant
Anyone can buy an off the shelf Turbojet engine 14inches long ~6 inches in diameter with + 80 LBF and consumption rate of ~ 500ml/m (about the size of a small water bottle a minute)
so achieving 100km from high altitude on a guidable platform about the size of an SDB is really not that complicated, it's achieving the accuracy from BVR that allows a small warhead on a small platform to be effective that's the hard part.

 

[AmirPatriot]

I never said anything about what altitude they would release them. I said F-15's can approach from low altitude and undetected & that restricts Iran's ability to send an aircraft up to see what's going on & it restricts Iran from having the time to put it's Air Defense units on guard....

That's what AWACS is for.