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Iran rejects Istanbul as venue of nuclear talks

No, I don't see this so abnormal. As I said before, it just makes Iran look like an untrustworthy country in Turkish public opinion.

If you don't see that as abnormal, then I would expect you as well as the rest of Turkish people to not think of Iran as untrustworthy. Put yourself in Iran's situation and then estimate how you would act.
 
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If you don't see that as abnormal, then I would expect you as well as the rest of Turkish people to not think of Iran as untrustworthy. Put yourself in Iran's situation and then estimate how you would act.

The guys is troll, go look at my question for him and how he replies.
it is literally the biggest joke I heard in this forum.
 
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If you don't see that as abnormal, then I would expect you as well as the rest of Turkish people to not think of Iran as untrustworthy. Put yourself in Iran's situation and then estimate how you would act.

I don't see this abnormal becuase I know Iran's regime.
 
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Well, the big difference between Turkey and Syria is that Turkey is a democratic state while Syria is a dictatorship. Because Erdogan is an elected leader of Turkey in a fair election, which is observerd by many national and international organizations, he has every right to resist to Kurdish terrorists who want to weaken Turkey's internal authority. If Assad wanted his government to be recognized as a legitimate regime and if he believed that the majority of Syrian people supported him, then he would step down (resign) first and let a fair election to take place. But, I don't think it is possible anymore.

It doesnt matter if ruler is so called dictator or democratically elected, democracy isnt some perfect system applicable everywhere and anytime. What matters if majority of citizens supports the ruler or not, and majority of Syrians support Assad, period.

Plus Syria already have constitution, and elections are incoming as well. Guess what - West and Arabs couldnt care less, they know Assad is very popular, and free elections wont install West puppets as they would prefer.

Especially pathetic when some Arab countries (pure dictatorships with no constitutions, elections and zero human rights) are demanding democracy in Syria. It doesnt get more hypocritical than that.
 
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It doesnt matter if ruler is so called dictator or democratically elected, democracy isnt some perfect system applicable everywhere and anytime. What matters if majority of citizens supports the ruler or not, and majority of Syrians support Assad, period.

Plus Syria already have constitution, and elections are incoming as well. Guess what - West and Arabs couldnt care less, they know Assad is very popular, and free elections wont install West puppets as they would prefer.

Especially pathetic when some Arab countries (pure dictatorships with no constitutions, elections and zero human rights) are demanding democracy in Syria. It doesnt get more hypocritical than that.

The only way to understand if the majority of citizens supports the ruler or not is to have fair elections which are observed by other national and international organization. I don't believe that the elections in Syria under a millitary pressure and observed by no other national and international organizations can be considered as legitimate.

If the bloody dictator you have been supporting had really believed that the majority of Syrian citizens supported him, then he would have stepped down (resigned) first and would have let a fair election which would have been observed by other national and international organizations to take place. But, I don't think it is possible anymore because of the crimes he commited against the humanity.

Do you understand what I am talking about or do I need to repeat again?
 
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The only way to understand if the majority of citizens supports the ruler or not is to have fair elections which are observed by other national and international organization. I don't believe that the elections in Syria under a millitary pressure and observed by no other national and international organizations can be considered as legitimate.

If the bloody dictator you have been supporting had really believed that the majority of Syrian citizens supported him, then he would have stepped down (resigned) first and would have let a fair election which would have been observed by other national and international organizations to take place. But, I don't think it is possible anymore because of the crimes he commited against the humanity.

Do you understand what I am talking about or do I need to repeat again?

You're right, but Iran, Russia, China and even the Syrian government have all agreed to an election. The stance of Iran clearly supports an election monitored globally, but it depends on what you mean by globally. Globally means the USA, the UK, France, Germany, Israel, Arabs, Turkey, Iran, Russia, China, North Korea and others but when western powers talk about international concerns they only consider themselves as the international community. That's the first problem! the second problem is the unfriendly and counter-productive stance of the west, Arabs and Turkey that instead of pushing for a democratic and civilized solution they are talking about arming the rebels which will surely destabilize Syria for months to years if they do so. Even if the regime of Assad falls, then Syria will turn into an insecure country like today's Libya with lots of more problems. How do you expect the Syrian government to accept you guys if you have already jeopardized everything by your irrational rhetoric? From the very beginning, the west has threatened Syria with sanctions, military interference and other sorts of serious threats that has made the gap between Syrian government and others wider. That is counter-productive. Not only that doesn't work, but it complicates things further.

On the Syrian issue, Turkey, Western countries, Arab states (excluding Iraq, Lebanon and some few Arab states that support Syria or are indifferent) have only themselves to blame. Don't blame others if you can't handle the situation through diplomacy and you're impotent to interfere militarily.
 
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You're right, but Iran, Russia, China and even the Syrian government have all agreed to an election. The stance of Iran clearly supports an election monitored globally, but it depends on what you mean by globally. Globally means the USA, the UK, France, Germany, Israel, Arabs, Turkey, Iran, Russia, China, North Korea and others but when western powers talk about international concerns they only consider themselves as the international community. That's the first problem! the second problem is the unfriendly and counter-productive stance of the west, Arabs and Turkey that instead of pushing for a democratic and civilized solution they are talking about arming the rebels which will surely destabilize Syria for months to years if they do so. Even if the regime of Assad falls, then Syria will turn into an insecure country like today's Libya with lots of more problems. How do you expect the Syrian government to accept you guys if you have already jeopardized everything by your irrational rhetoric? From the very beginning, the west has threatened Syria with sanctions, military interference and other sorts of serious threats that has made the gap between Syrian government and others wider. That is counter-productive. Not only that doesn't work, but it complicates things further.

On the Syrian issue, Turkey, Western countries, Arab states (excluding Iraq, Lebanon and some few Arab states that support Syria or are indifferent) have only themselves to blame. Don't blame others if you can't handle the situation through diplomacy and you're impotent to interfere militarily.

I remember how Davutoglu and Erdogan were patient enough for months to try to convince Assad and Syrian regime for a bloodless transition. After all these meetings and phone calls, all they got are unkept promises and efforts to gain more time to kill more Syrian people, thanks to his Iranian consultants.
 
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I remember how Davutoglu and Erdogan were patient enough for months to try to convince Assad and Syrian regime for a bloodless transition. After all these meetings and phone calls, all they got are unkept promises and efforts to gain more time to kill more Syrian people, thanks to his Iranian consultants.

Bloodless transition is not what Turkey could dictate to Syria, It was obvious from the very beginning that Syria wouldn't care what Turkey thought and still thinks because Syria isn't a Turkish colony as you know. Why you think the Syrian government should've listened to you?
A bloodless transition is different than a fair election my friend. The outcome of a fair election is unclear to us as for now. I say let's assume, with only 1% of possibility, that Assad wins a fair election. Why he should leave the power if he has supporters then? Because some particular countries say so? Isn't that a clear example of violation of the Syrian sovereignty?
 
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Bloodless transition is not what Turkey could dictate to Syria, It was obvious from the very beginning that Syria wouldn't care what Turkey thought and still thinks because Syria isn't a Turkish colony as you know. Why you think the Syrian government should've listened to you?
A bloodless transition is different than a fair election my friend. The outcome of a fair election is unclear to us as for now. I say let's assume, with only 1% of possibility, that Assad wins a fair election. Why he should leave the power if he has supporters then? Because some particular countries say so? Isn't that a clear example of violation of the Syrian sovereignty?

I think you misunderstood what I mean by the word "transition". Turkey did not want Assad to step down fully. Turkish government told Assad that "You need to have a fair elections which will be observed by other national and international organizations. If your people choose you, you will be considered as the legitimate ruler of the country by us." However, Assad did not do that for some reasons. My opinion is he did not believe he would win the election.

Of course Syria isn't Turkey's colony, it is Iran's.
 
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The only way to understand if the majority of citizens supports the ruler or not is to have fair elections which are observed by other national and international organization. I don't believe that the elections in Syria under a millitary pressure and observed by no other national and international organizations can be considered as legitimate.

Thats what Assad suggested, and West/Arabs declined. Same happened in Libya - Gaddafi suggested referendum under UN supervision, West declined as well, they knew Gaddafi's popularity and wanted either his full removal from power or killing him, guess what - same was decided for Assad, but Russia/China intervened.

If the bloody dictator you have been supporting had really believed that the majority of Syrian citizens supported him, then he would have stepped down (resigned) first and would have let a fair election which would have been observed by other national and international organizations to take place. But, I don't think it is possible anymore because of the crimes he commited against the humanity.

I'm not supporting or even care about Assad, what I care about is that countries progress and direction would be chosen by the citizens, NOT by the foreign powers, who want to install another puppet in their geopolitical games, even if it means total destruction of yet another country.

Crimes against humanity - believe less propaganda, thats what your supported terrorists and terror sponsoring states do (including Turkey). And I can prove it - there are plenty of videos with "rebels" killing and bombing innocent civilians. While you cant prove Assad is committing crimes against humanity - not a SINGLE video of Syrian army killing peaceful demonstrators, in a year of conflict.

Maybe you dont know that operation "regime change" on a fake pretenses is done over and over again. How is Iraq's WMD doing? Or Gaddafi's mass rapes and genocide which never happened? I learned from those and many other cases, what have you learned?
 
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Bloodless transition is not what Turkey could dictate to Syria, It was obvious from the very beginning that Syria wouldn't care what Turkey thought and still thinks because Syria isn't a Turkish colony as you know. Why you think the Syrian government should've listened to you?
A bloodless transition is different than a fair election my friend. The outcome of a fair election is unclear to us as for now. I say let's assume, with only 1% of possibility, that Assad wins a fair election. Why he should leave the power if he has supporters then? Because some particular countries say so? Isn't that a clear example of violation of the Syrian sovereignty?

Believe me, it was much easier for Turkey to close its eyes or look the other way while Assad was butchering his people and then keep its good relations with Assad like nothing happened, just like you Iranians have been doing.

But we did not think that was either ethic or humanistic.
 
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I think you misunderstood what I mean by the word "transition". Turkey did not want Assad to step down fully. Turkish government told Assad that "You need to have a fair elections which will be observed by other national and international organizations. If your people choose you, you will be considered as the legitimate ruler of the country by us." However, Assad did not do that for some reasons. My opinion is he did not believe he would win the election.

Of course Syria isn't Turkey's colony, it is Iran's.

But I read different things I guess. Turkey soon started to threaten Syria with military action and never showed flexibility toward the Syrian regime. All countries that are siding with Syria support a national referendum and they've reiterated their stance that they are committed to it but on the other hand, we see Turkey hosting the so called 'Friends of Syria' session that is counter-productive. If we want to solve the issue, we should refrain from emotionalizing the problem and we should look for a realistic solution. I know you disagree with what I'm gonna say, but the Syrian crisis was an armed conflict from the very first days. We have seen other revolutions in the region since the last year, like the Tunisian revolution, the Egyptian revolution, the Yemeni revolution, the Libyan revolution, et cetera, and all of them were peaceful demonstrators from the first days. The Libyan revolution turned violent soon after Ghadhafi bombed the Libyan people but others were just peaceful demonstrators. In case of Syria, it very soon turned into armed clashes and soon it went out of control because the liberators (the USA and its allies) butted in. While they were silent about uprisings in Yemen, Bahrain and demonstrations in Jordan, Saudi Arabia and other countries and are still silent on the Bahraini revolution, they tried to bring the issue to the UNSC very soon. Why? Only because they thought Syria was a good target to hit Iran! Why they don't act the same on Bahrain or they didn't act the same way about the Yemeni dictator?

If all sides stand for fair elections, then that might work, but the USA and NATO are pushing for a regime change in Syria very hard and they show no flexibility because they're determined to topple Assad's regime to weaken Iran's influence in the region. It's just a political game that the Western side doesn't want to give up because it sees Assad falling as very profitable and they don't care how many Syrians will suffer from their game.

Believe me, it was much easier for Turkey to close its eyes or look the other way while Assad was butchering his people and then keep its good relations with Assad like nothing happened, just like you Iranians have been doing.

But we did not think that was either ethic or humanistic.

If you thought about being ethic, moral, humanistic and other words that you say, you wouldn't have talked about arming the rebels. That would cause a worse blood shed in Syria than the one we're witnessing right now and that would turn Syria into a warn torn country with a very dangerous civil war that will cause tens of thousands of Syrian to be killed.
 
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Why he should leave the power if he has supporters then? Because some particular countries say so? Isn't that a clear example of violation of the Syrian sovereignty?

Thats one of the points - every country should decide what government system they prefer, its not up to others to decide. Gaddafi took better care of Libyans than anyone else in Africa or even some West countries, and yet was called a "bloody dictator". So if West can dictate what system is installed in any country, so maybe ME nations can dictate what kind of system is installed in the West? :azn: By force if needed, of course, West way.
 
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We are not going to attack Syria by ourselves, we are not that stupid. We will just start to arm them.

And even if we attacked Syria, Russia will not go into a war for Syria (they declared this) and Iran can't take the chance of going into a war with Turkey directly because Turkey is way too powerfull for them for a hot war.


really !?

and are you really want that we teach you what "proxy war " means !?
 
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