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Iran criticizes Turkey's "secular Islam"

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Iran criticises Turkey’s ‘secular Islam’

By Daniel Dombey in Istanbul and Najmeh Bozorgmehr in Tehran

Iran has criticised Turkey’s secular system of government as an unsuitable example for countries in the Arab spring, in the latest sign of growing tension between the two regional powers.

Ali-Akbar Velayati, senior adviser to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, told a press conference on Tuesday that Turkey’s model of “secular Islam” was a version of western liberal democracy and unacceptable for countries that he said were going through an “Islamic awakening”.

By contrast Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s prime minister, has travelled to Egypt and Tunisia championing his country’s secular institutions, which he argues allow a conservative, devout social outlook like his own to thrive.

Rivalry between the two neighbours is intensifying as they lock horns over Ankara’s decision to host a Nato missile defence base and the fate of Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, as well as the future direction of the Arab spring.

The two countries are economically interdependent and each has problems neighbours, so are keen to downplay tensions. But strains are growing, particularly over their broader ambition to project influence in the region.

The tension, which underlines how much the Arab uprisings have transformed the region’s political landscape, comes little more than 18 months after Turkey defied its western allies and brokered a short-lived compromise deal on Iran’s nuclear programme, the height of its ambition to act as an interlocutor with Tehran.

“They [Iran] support Assad no matter what… They are not happy with the defence shield. They are not happy with us getting involved in Iraq or Syria,” a Turkish official told the FT recently.
He added that while the countries’ rivalry was rarely explicit, “it has always been there”.

Turkey broke with Mr Assad months ago, complaining of broken promises in his regime’s crackdown on its opponents, and is now spearheading the international campaign for him to step down. But the loss of Iran’s main regional ally would be a major setback to Tehran, not least because Syria provides Iran with a connection to Hizbollah, the Lebanese Shia militant group.

But the tension between Ankara and Tehran also takes place against a much broader backdrop. Mr Velayati’s comments came two days after Hossein Ebrahimi, an Iranian member of parliament, became the second Iranian public figure in a matter of weeks to threaten Turkey over its missile defence radar base, saying that if Iran was attacked its first target would be the base being built in Malatya, Turkey.

Top Iranian officials have told their Turkish counterparts not to take such comments seriously – but Iran makes clear its fury at what it regards as the threat the base poses.

Turkish officials reply that the Nato programme does not specifically target Tehran – Iran’s name was excised from the programme’s goals after strenuous Turkish lobbying – and that Nato itself will not share radar information with Israel, Iran’s enemy. But since the US has made clear it will share such information, Ankara’s assurances have failed to placate Iran.

The two countries have also been competing in Iraq, where last year Turkey championed the cause of Iyad Allawi, the secular Shia who sought to be prime minister, the post eventually retained by Nouri al-Maliki, who was given more support by Iran.

This week Mr Maliki told the Wall Street Journal that he was more worried about the Turkey’s role in the region than that of Iran. By contrast, some Turkish analysts see Iran expanding its role in Iraq as it is put on the defensive in Syria.

“We are also downplaying it, but the competition is ongoing, especially in Iraq,” said Suat Kiniklioglu, a former Turkish ruling party MP and the director of the Centre for Strategic Communication, an Ankara-based think-tank. “Once US troops are out this month, competition is likely to increase over Iraq and if Assad falls, Turkish-Iranian tensions might increase even further.”

Iran criticises Turkey’s ‘secular Islam’ - FT.com
 
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Turks will be the winner of this.

I don't think it's that simple. While Turkish political model may certainly seem more attractive I think other intangible factors such as geography, trade, religion and Iran's close ties and influence in Iraq's politics will give Iran the upper hand.
 
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China supports the Islamic World but we don't get along with the Turks. Turks are xenophobic and violent. Arabs are not as violent but they are unfriendly. Persians are a peaceful people.

A few months ago, I thought Turkey would become anti-USA because of its quarrel with Israel. But now it looks like Turkey has definitely taken the side of USA against Iran and Syria.

If Turkey becomes hostile to China. It will surely support terrorism in Western China.
Turks are much friendlier than any of the Arab countries. Arabs are not violent? Where do you come up with these conclusions?
But then again you said Persians are a peaceful people while every evidence for decades shows they supported and committed terror attacks worldwide.
 
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Turks are much friendlier than any of the Arab countries. Arabs are not violent? Where do you come up with these conclusions?
But then again you said Persians are a peaceful people while every evidence for decades shows they supported and committed terror attacks worldwide.

You shut up please. Hadn't it been for the Persians and in particular Koresh (Cyrus the great), you Jews would've stayed the slaves of the Babylonians. Unfortunately, no nation in the middle east has helped your people more than Persia and now I see we were wrong.
 
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Iran seeks to calm Turkey over missile threats

By Daren Butler and Hossein Jaseb, ISTANBUL/TEHRAN | Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:20pm IST

(Reuters) - Iran's foreign minister has told Turkey that threats by Iranian political and military figures to strike Turkish missile defences if attacked do not represent official policy.

Ties between Turkey and Iran have been sorely tested by an uprising in Syria and Turkey's involvement in NATO's missile shield, which Tehran sees as a U.S. ploy to protect Israel.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu phoned his Iranian counterpart to express unease over recent threats to target Turkey if Iran comes under attack, his ministry said in a statement.

"We have made the necessary warning to those who make irresponsible and senseless statements," Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi told Turkey's state-run Anatolian agency.

"The official view of the Islamic Republic of Iran towards Turkey is based on deep brotherhood and friendship," he said.

Davutoglu, asked later by a reporter in parliament whether Salehi's comments had reduced tensions, said there had never been tension:

"We thank him for his statement. Turkish-Iranian friendship is ancient. It is eternal and nobody can influence it."

Last week, Iranian lawmaker Hossein Ibrahimi said Iran could target Turkey in a future conflict due to its hosting of the NATO defences, which Iran fears could neuter the missiles it might use to strike Israel and U.S. forces in the region if it was attacked.

"Targeting the missile defence shield on Turkish territory would be a certain and natural reaction in the event of any threat emanating from that country," Ibrahimi was quoted as saying in the December 8 edition of the daily Sharq.

Turkey's Foreign Ministry said Salehi had told Davutoglu this was "a personal view and was not in line with the government's position".

INTERNAL TENSIONS

However, last month the semi-official Mehr news agency quoted Amir Ali Hajizadeh, head of the Revolutionary Guards' aerospace division, as saying: "We are ready to attack NATO's missile shield in Turkey if we face a threat.

The fact that Salehi has had to weigh in to calm matters points not only to tensions with Turkey but also to policy divisions within Iran's conservative ruling elite.

The storming of the British embassy by radical youths last month was criticised by Salehi, while parliament speaker Ali Larijani, a rival of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, appeared to support the action, which further soured relations with Europe.

Close advisers to Khamenei have been harshly critical of the secular model of Islamic democracy embodied by Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan.

Khamenei's military adviser said in October that Turkey appeared to be doing Washington's bidding by turning against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Iran's main ally in the region, and called Erdogan's push for secularism in the Arab world "unexpected and unimaginable".

On Wednesday Hassan Rohani, an influential member of the state Expediency Council, was quoted as saying in the daily Farhang-e Ashti that "Turkey is going beyond the limit (in its policy) towards Syria and in supporting the Syrian opposition".

A senior cleric said Turkey's opposition to Assad was playing into a Western plot to regain dominance in the region.

"They (the West) have begun with Syria and will then go to Lebanon and Iraq, and will then come to us which, of course, will not succeed," Grand Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi told the semi-official Fars news agency.

"... America, Israel and Arab countries have joined hands to begin their plot with Syria and in the midst of this, Turkish statesmen are adding fuel to the fire," he said.

Iran seeks to calm Turkey over missile threats | Reuters
 
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Turks are much friendlier than any of the Arab countries. Arabs are not violent? Where do you come up with these conclusions?
But then again you said Persians are a peaceful people while every evidence for decades shows they supported and committed terror attacks worldwide.
you are so racist with this stupid statement
persians being the bad guys who want to kill innocent people worldwide?

9/11? who did it?
vietnam war? who did it?
Hiroshima? who did it?
Rwanda? persians too?
Shoah? the nice Europeans that still in their countries the cimetery of Jews are vandalized when it never happened in our country

what is terrorism by Iranians?
you mean support of Hezbollah? then blame Hezbollah.. and by the way there are terrible groups who send rockets to your country. seems you forget them.
you mean the few terror bombings after revolution? you know what is a revolution? any idea? you dodn't have any clue what it is. inside the country some people wanted revenge . and it seems outside too.

i was expecting truthseeker , a strong islamophob and fanatic , to say such bullshit
but i am surprised YOU say this
i have a big deception on you . i believed you were smarter.

Arian > still i have some friends in Israel. And they don' think like this.
We don't need to be as racist as people thinking like this. ;) let's show we are better people than this.

And by the way, Iran is not a democracy. Iranians / persians don't choose their destiny
and have no action on the Khamenei's choices and policy
thanks
 
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I don't think it's that simple. While Turkish political model may certainly seem more attractive I think other intangible factors such as geography, trade, religion and Iran's close ties and influence in Iraq's politics will give Iran the upper hand.

please explain
 
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you are so racist with this stupid statement
persians being the bad guys who want to kill innocent people worldwide?

9/11? who did it?
vietnam war? who did it?
Hiroshima? who did it?
Rwanda? persians too?
Shoah? the nice Europeans that still in their countries the cimetery of Jews are vandalized when it never happened in our country

what is terrorism by Iranians?
you mean support of Hezbollah? then blame Hezbollah.. and by the way there are terrible groups who send rockets to your country. seems you forget them.
you mean the few terror bombings after revolution? you know what is a revolution? any idea? you dodn't have any clue what it is. inside the country some people wanted revenge . and it seems outside too.

i was expecting truthseeker , a strong islamophob and fanatic , to say such bullshit
but i am surprised YOU say this
i have a big deception on you . i believed you were smarter.

Arian > still i have some friends in Israel. And they don' think like this.
We don't need to be as racist as people thinking like this. ;) let's show we are better people than this.

And by the way, Iran is not a democracy. Iranians / persians don't choose their destiny
and have no action on the Khamenei's choices and policy
thanks

If you haven`t gotten by now, when i say Persians i mean those that support the Iranian Ayatollah regime that constantly proclaims that they will destroy Israel.
Hezbollah is funded and controlled by Iran, by the Persian rulers of Iran, by terrorists and terrorist sympathizers.

What is Ahmadinejad other than a Persian? He some Arab in disguise ruling the Persian Iran?
 
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You shut up please. Hadn't it been for the Persians and in particular Koresh (Cyrus the great), you Jews would've stayed the slaves of the Babylonians. Unfortunately, no nation in the middle east has helped your people more than Persia and now I see we were wrong.
Is Cyrus The Great the same person mentioned in the Quran as Dhul-Qarnayn ? Any historical evidence in Persian history ?
 
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If you haven`t gotten by now, when i say Persians i mean those that support the Iranian Ayatollah regime that constantly proclaims that they will destroy Israel.
Hezbollah is funded and controlled by Iran, by the Persian rulers of Iran, by terrorists and terrorist sympathizers.

What is Ahmadinejad other than a Persian? He some Arab in disguise ruling the Persian Iran?
No the facts are that you got a racial discussion, and you didn't specify about the regime and Khamenei
you could have said something else and another way. this is nothing to do with being persian.arab or turk
we should avoid any of these racial discussions here
 
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Is Cyrus The Great the same person mentioned in the Quran as Dhul-Qarnayn ? Any historical evidence in Persian history ?

Actually that's a theory that has been proposed. Here's the story:
Dhul-Qarnayn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cyrus the Great in the Quran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Differences Between Alexander the Great and Dhul-Qarnayn

The suggestion that Dhul-Qarnayn is Cyrus the Great is supported by some of the Quranic commentaries (Tafsir) and Islamic scholars such as Allameh Tabatabaei (in his Tafsir al-Mizan)[8], Allameh Tehrani [6], Syed Ahmed Khan (known interpreter of the Quran), Abul Kalam Azad (Minister of Culture, India, in Majma' al-Bayan), and Dr. Baha-ed-Din Khorramshahi. Mohammad Ebrahim Bastani Parizi the historian, also deny that Dhul-Qarnayn was Alexander the Great.[9] They tend to suspect that Dhul-Qarnayn was Cyrus the Great, the King and founder of Achaemenid empire. They provide strong evidence, including artifacts, stone carving palaces and graves. Some of their reasons are:

In the carved stone that can still be seen up to now show Cyrus with his crown with two horns.[9]
According to the Quran, God's grace be with him and with it, Cyrus was the first king (several hundred years before Alexander the Great) who conquered most of Europe and Asia.[9]
Cyrus (as Dhul-Qarnayn) was a monotheist and worshipped the God, but Alexander the Great had many gods.[9]
In the Quran, Dhul-Qarnayn noted that the journey begins to the west and then to the east before the road to the other (the North), which coincided with the start the expedition of Cyrus the Persian conquest in the West to Lydia in Asia Minor and then turned to the east until the Makran and Sistan (Scythian) prior to capturing the Northeast Europe near the Balkan.[9]
Expedition of Cyrus proceeded with the conquest of Lycia, Cilicia and Phoenicia, and they use the techniques of wall construction is not used anymore by the Greeks at that time.[9]
According to the Quran, Alexander travel easier and more chance for Cyrus, he could end the expedition was that in 542 BC, before returning to Persia, while Alexander was still in war mission when he died.[9]
Alexander didn't built dams, there are just some fictional stories about this but there's not any historical document about it.[9] (Look at Strabo's Geography for more information)[8]
Besides, Alexander also said to be as generous as it is said Alexander drinking alcohol and partying often, and also have a man, Hephaestion, as a lover.[9][8][10]


Azad also rejected what it already belongs to Qahtaan Arabic Yemen, on the basis that the question of the Jews by the Prophet was with a view to embarrass him, even if the Arabs of Quraish were aware of it and asked what was miraculous.[9][8][10]

Azad builds his theory on the basis that the origin of the name "Dhul-Qarnayn" comes from the name stated in the Torah is "Haqqərānayim" which is launched by the name of the Jews to Cyrus, to show tolerance to them when his predecessors had been unjust to them.[9][10][11]
 
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No the facts are that you got a racial discussion, and you didn't specify about the regime and Khamenei
you could have said something else and another way. this is nothing to do with being persian.arab or turk
we should avoid any of these racial discussions here
While racial discussions should be avoided, i think it was pretty clear who i meant as terrorists and those were and remain the Iranian regime. I too held you in higher esteem so now you know who i mean as terrorists, whenever i speak of them.
Cyrus the great was named the great for a reason, even in the Torah.
 
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While racial discussions should be avoided, i think it was pretty clear who i meant as terrorists and those were and remain the Iranian regime. I too held you in higher esteem so now you know who i mean as terrorists, whenever i speak of them.
Cyrus the great was named the great for a reason, even in the Torah.
If your house is made of glass don't throw stones on others. You talking about the Iranian regime and calling them terrorists, is like me calling The UK undemocratic.
 
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