Iran and Israel, archenemies or potential friends?

[Surenas]

I opened this thread to discuss with other Iranians on this forum if Israel really is the archenemy of Iran, or because of various circumstances just have been given that label. Not a emotional discussion, but a pure geo-political discussion. My opinion:

I don't think, if you look at the interests of both countries, that Iran and Israel are doomed to be each others enemies. I think we have more in common than we think. Iran has aspirations to dominate the Middle-East culturally, economically and military. And in my opinion it's not Israel who's the main obstacle to this Iranian aspiration, but the Arab states and Turkey. Israel is too small to have the ability to compete with Iran, but those countries I mentioned above on the other hand aren't. So it isn't strange that many Middle-East expert expect the real struggle for power to be between Iran and Turkey. Israel could in my opinion be a potential ally of Iran.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

I think the two countries are in reality friends, or in the future will be, or at least factions from among them.

Iran to me has no business protesting the Palestinian exodus. If they cared, they could easily house the entire Palestinian population in Iran without significant change to their own population. Why then is Iran constantly picking with both Israel and all its GCC neighbours? I think they're working toward a new middle east, and so is Israel, and that would align the interests of them both at some point against the Arabs.

 

[Surenas]

I think the two countries are in reality friends, or in the future will be, or at least factions from among them.

Iran to me has no business protesting the Palestinian exodus. If they cared, they could easily house the entire Palestinian population in Iran without significant change to their own population. Why then is Iran constantly picking with both Israel and all its GCC neighbours? I think they're working toward a new middle east, and so is Israel, and that would align the interests of them both at some point against the Arabs.

Exactly. Don't get me wrong: I wish the Palestinians all the best, but I don't think it's Iran moral obligation to come up as the protector of the Palestinians. I think their Arab brothers are perfectly capable to solve this case and Iran should care as much (or less) about them as Iran should care about Chechens being oppressed by the Russians. I'm also pretty convinced that Iran and Israel one day would be allies in the region or at least will have more relations.

 

[Arian]

I think the two countries are in reality friends, or in the future will be, or at least factions from among them.

Iran to me has no business protesting the Palestinian exodus. If they cared, they could easily house the entire Palestinian population in Iran without significant change to their own population. Why then is Iran constantly picking with both Israel and all its GCC neighbours? I think they're working toward a new middle east, and so is Israel, and that would align the interests of them both at some point against the Arabs.

For your information, Khomeini offered that to Yaser Arafat (if I'm not mistaken) that Palestinians come and settle in Khuzestan province of Iran, but Arafat didn't accept.

Anyway, I prefer Israelis to Arabs because they value friendship. If, any moment, our ties with the USA is restored, I hope we would restore our ties with Israelis after that as soon as possible, which is impossible with the current regime of Iran though. Arabs are masochists, if you screw them like the Shah did, they'll love you, if you support them like the Iran after revolution did, they all will turn against you. The Shah, as a US/UK backed ultra-nationalist, considered them third world savage camel riders and yet many of them complain how the king of Iran and their kings were friends before the revolution and that this friendship was broken after the revolution LOL. When you see them saying that the revolution of Iran was a conspiracy against Iran Arab neighbors all you could do is to laugh as hard as you could. Such a weird people they are. The majority deserves the way Israel treats them for sure, except good ones though.

Exactly. Don't get me wrong: I wish the Palestinians all the best, but I don't think it's Iran moral obligation to come up as the protector of the Palestinians. I think their Arab brothers are perfectly capable to solve this case and Iran should care as much (or less) about them as Iran should care about Chechens being oppressed by the Russians. I'm also pretty convinced that Iran and Israel one day would be allies in the region or at least will have more relations.

Checheni insurgents aren't oppressed, they mostly are terrorists and outlaws. You can't even compare the two. The Chechenis are separatists who are killing Russian soldiers and ordinary people by terrorist activities, the Palestinians, on the other hand, are one of the native people of Israel that has a right to live in their country freely as the owners of the land and they have been denied this right so far. Two different cases.

 

[Surenas]

The Shah, as a US/UK backed ultra-nationalist, considered them third world savage camel riders and yet many of them complain how the king of Iran and their kings were friends before the revolution and that this friendship was broken after the revolution LOL.

The Shah was indeed a nationalist, but don't forget the Shah helped the Sultan of Oman in defeating the communist rebels in his country. I also remember Palestinians go on the streets with pictures of Saddam to support him in the Iran-Iraq war and that while the new revolutionaries in Iran were (morally) supporting them against Israel. They clearly haven't heard of gratitude. Ironically it was also Israel who supported us in the Iran-Iraq war.

Checheni insurgents aren't oppressed, they mostly are terrorists and outlaws. You can't even compare the two. The Chechenis are separatists who are killing Russian soldiers and ordinary people by terrorist activities, the Palestinians, on the other hand, are one of the native people of Israel that has a right to live in their country freely as the owners of the land and they have been denied this right so far. Two different cases.

But many ordinary Chechens are. You should read about the racism towards them, but we are getting off topic now. I referred to the Chechens just to make a point that Iran should care as much about the Palestinians as they care about other people who are oppressed.

 

[Arian]

The Shah was indeed a nationalist, but don't forget the Shah helped the Sultan of Oman in defeating the communist rebels in his country. I also remember Palestinians go on the streets with pictures of Saddam to support him in the Iran-Iraq war and that while the new revolutionaries in Iran were (morally) supporting them against Israel. They clearly haven't heard of gratitude. Ironically it was also Israel who supported us in the Iran-Iraq war.

Yea, we helped the Sultan of Oman in the rebellion against him in the Dhoffar war. Although the people who participated in the war were supported greatly by the army at that time, it was a stupid move for us because our casualties were higher even than the Omanis and the Brits in the war. Oman has always been a good neighbor of us though, even after the revolution.
Also, regarding Israeli help in the war, she acted as a proxy during the contra-affair scandal between Iran and the USA.

Israelis aren't our friends, but they certainly could be our allies in the region for common interests. And they value friendship more than Arabs do for sure.

But many ordinary Chechens are. You should read about the racism towards them, but we are getting off topic now. I referred to the Chechens just to make a point that Iran should care as much about the Palestinians as they care about other people who are oppressed.

Well, sort of, but they are still kinda responsible for the discrimination against them as well. the Kazan federation of Russia also has a considerable Muslim population (Iran has an embassy in Kazan after Moscow) but you don't witness what happens in Chechenya in there at all. But still it's a different case and is off topic now.

 

[Serpentine]

The Shah was indeed a nationalist, but don't forget the Shah helped the Sultan of Oman in defeating the communist rebels in his country. I also remember Palestinians go on the streets with pictures of Saddam to support him in the Iran-Iraq war and that while the new revolutionaries in Iran were (morally) supporting them against Israel. They clearly haven't heard of gratitude. Ironically it was also Israel who supported us in the Iran-Iraq war.



But many ordinary Chechens are. You should read about the racism towards them, but we are getting off topic now. I referred to the Chechens just to make a point that Iran should care as much about the Palestinians as they care about other people who are oppressed.

If Iran and Israel 'wanted' to be friends,they could become the best ones,but there is a problem.Currently Israel is not bowing down to any demand of Palestinians,it is building settlements everyday in Palestinian territories of West Bank,Israel has an aggressive policy towards them.In current situation,the two state solution is the only way to end this fight.Because if Palestinians want to take whole occupied lands,it requires to kill all the Jews there which is impossible and if Israelis want to take the whole Palestine,it requires to kill all Palestinians.Israel should accept a legitimate country for Palestinians,stop building settlements in there and also stop the racism toward them.There should be a referendum for Palestinians,if they agree with 2 state solution,then Iran won't have any other business with their issue.
But I agree that most Arabs (not all of them) are enemies of Iranians because of sect and race and this isn't a problem that can be solved any time soon.Israel doesn't have any problems with Iranian people in general.

Iran and Israel shouldn't necessarily be friends,they can just choose to not be enemies and this can happen only after the Palestinian issue resolved.

 

[Surenas]

Yea, we helped the Sultan of Oman in the rebellion against him in the Dhoffar war. Although the people who participated in the war were supported greatly by the army at that time, it was a stupid move for us because our casualties were higher even than the Omanis and the Brits in the war. Oman has always been a good neighbor of us though, even after the revolution.

Yes, it was quite a stupid move. It showed the Shah that his troops lacked the experience and training for such operations. But Oman is indeed, in stead of other Arab states, a good neighbor of Iran and to this day they are thankful for our help.

Also, regarding Israeli help in the war, she acted as a proxy during the contra-affair scandal between Iran and the USA.

Israelis aren't our friends, but they certainly could be our allies in the region for common interests. And they value friendship more than Arabs do for sure.

Yes, but Israel could of course refuse to act as a intermediary between the US and Iran. Just like they could refuse to act as a intermediary between the US and Afghan Mujahedins during the Sovjet war in Afghanistan. In stead they 'helped' the same people who were calling for their destruction.

 

[Arian]

Yes, it was quite a stupid move. It showed the Shah that his troops lacked the experience and training for such operations. But Oman is indeed, in stead of other Arab states, a good neighbor of Iran and to this day they are thankful for our help.

Agreed.

Yes, but Israel could of course refuse to act as a intermediary between the US and Iran. Just like they could refuse to act as a intermediary between the US and Afghan Mujahedins during the Sovjet war in Afghanistan. In stead they 'helped' the same people who were calling for their destruction.

Why they should have refused to act as a proxy? The longer the war became the better it was for Israel. It was a win-win situation for them, because both Iran and Iraq were her enemies and we both were getting weaker and weaker every month the war continued and for them the best thing to do was to help us weaken Iraq ruled by Saddam and prolong the bloody war to weaken ourselves as well.
Israel did what any clever state would do. I'm sure Iran would've done the same had the situation been reversed.

Israel couldn't be our friend, but we could be very good partner or even allies in the region. It's for the sake of common interests in the region I think.

 

[The SC]

Any Muslim befriending Israel will go against Koran and the Sunna, they both advise the Muslims against the Jews and the Christian hypocrites.

 

[Surenas]

In current situation,the two state solution is the only way to end this fight.

I also believe that a two-state solution is the best one.

But I agree that most Arabs (not all of them) are enemies of Iranians because of sect and race and this isn't a problem that can be solved any time soon.Israel doesn't have any problems with Iranian people in general.

Iran and Israel shouldn't necessarily be friends,they can just choose to not be enemies and this can happen only after the Palestinian issue resolved.

Not primarily because of race and sect, but because they both have the same interest. And that's to dominate the Middle-East. This struggle is not temporarily, but infinite.

No, I don't necessarily want the Palestinian issue to be resolved before Iran-Israel relation can be restored. Frankly, and I'm quite hard now, I don't give a damn about the Palestinian case. I only give a care about Iran's future. And it maybe sounds hard, but this is how politics work.

 

[Serpentine]

Any Muslim befriending Israel will go against Koran an the Sunna, they both advise the Muslims against the Jews and the Christian hypocrites.

Unfortunately some of Muslims themselves are the most puppet,hypocrites and liars of our time.
Btw,Quran never says they are enemies of Islam and that Muslims can not be their friends.Do you want me bring a verse for it?

 

[kollang]

for me,PGCC is the worse enemy.

 

[Surenas]

Why they should have refused to act as a proxy? The longer the war became the better it was for Israel. It was a win-win situation for them, because both Iran and Iraq were her enemies and we both were getting weaker and weaker every month the war continued and for them the best thing to do was to help us weaken Iraq ruled by Saddam and prolong the bloody war to weaken ourselves as well.
Israel did what any clever state would do. I'm sure Iran would've done the same had the situation been reversed.

We didn't get weaker because of those arms supplies, but because of Khomeini's stubbornness. He could ended the war much earlier. But Israel, the US, Russia and Turkey indeed benefited from the war between Iran and Iraq, the two most powerful states of the Middle-East at that time. Especially Turkey benefited a lot from this war. Before the war Iran was quite superior to Turkey economically.

 

[Serpentine]

We didn't get weaker because of those arms supplies, but because of Khomeini's stubbornness. He could ended the war much earlier. But Israel, the US and Turkey indeed benefited from the war between Iran and Iraq, the two most powerful states of the Middle-East. Especially Turkey benefited (economically) a lot from this war.

If Khomeini ended the war,Saddam would definitely buy tons of arms and military stuff again and after becoming a big monster,attack Iran again.He was like a injured dog,he said expliciltly that he wants to occupy Iran especially Khuzestan.If Khomeini ended the war,we could relax for some 3 or 4 years,but after that Saddam would attack Iran again,this time much more powerful than before.