Investment from US as US is sending 15 trade delegations to Pakistan next year: Wells

[Zibago]

Perfectly understandable about being cautious. I would presume you be okay with the following US actions when it gives, loans, grants, investments out:

1. We will be transparent. You will know the terms of the investment, loans, or aid.
2. We will happily submit our business, investment terms, and or loan terms to world bodies that are in place to ensure the loaner is not getting fleeced. Typically referred to as the Paris group. No hidden terms of high-interest deals from the citizens
3. We will not insist that workers, companies, and support shall be only American companies. OR demand as a part of the deal that American workers will be shifted into your country over hiring your workforce.
4. Our investing companies will provide skill-based training and an ecosystem that ensures the host country's workforce learn, get skilled, and can be a workforce that can run things on their own.

1 What good is transparency if your policy would be changed completely with change in political leadership?
2 That is good to know but with the glorious example of US walking away from TAPI I find the whole trusting thing a bit hard we should be open for business but we must keep our policies multi pronged and be a bit cautious Trump has warmed to us but I don't know too much bad blood
3 That is a plus point for us I agree US would be an interesting partner in agriculture sector as our yields are low despite a big arable area
4 In agriculture sector that would be a game changer

Pakistans response should be a simple NO

Why not all investment is welcome as long as it has no hidden objectives

US is not China, they have a democracy and don't control companies.

Google says hi

 

[M.Bison]

Why not all investment is welcome as long as it has no hidden objectives

Remember the famous saying, Aint no such thing as free lunch.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

That is a good answer. I wonder what Pakistan has to do with National security.
Maybe an energy independent China is bad for the United States. It is true that once Gwadar becomes militarized the Chinese will have access to the Indian Ocean and the Gulf of Oman. It will also decrease china's reliance on the straits of malacca.
What I want to know is why don't you just be truthful and say that... Why do you have to give it the guise of development and humanitarian aid?

You know well that the United States could give two shits about Pakistani-Chinese loans.



Just because it is secretive does not mean it is harsh.. You know that better than anyone else foggy.

I'll give you an honest answer if you could consume with eyes wide open . It's not a secret, and your establishment knows it but won't openly say it. The following is real knowledge the US has on the deal, on Gawdar in this case.

1. Gwadar has zero to do with Chinese energy independence. Quite frankly, if that were the goal of the Chinese or the result of having Gwadar was some miraculous energy independence, the US would be pleased (believe it or not). That would make it a pure economic outcome

2. The ultimate Chinese goal for Gwadar is to prime it up as a military/ naval base for the Chinese. They have already got a 45-year full control lease on it, currently? That is going to turn into 99 eventually because they are doing what they did to Sri Lanka to Pakistan through the loan terms on CPEC. You will default on specific aspects of the loan and will be forced to give them full autonomous access to that port for far longer than 45 years

If we can come and help Pakistan grow on its own with fair, equitable loans and grants, maybe we have a chance at salvaging the situation for both Pakistan and ourselves. Unless, of course, if you want to be under bone-crushing debt under Chinese loan terms and rather give them your sovereign lands.

Was that honest enough and candid enough?

 

[Zibago]

Let us start with you catching my error of typing 'loaner' when meaning 'loanee'. I'm sure you knew what I meant but thought to play cheeky and pretend otherwise. Well, thank you for catching that typo.

1. Wheat for F16? I'm afraid I was not aware. I knew we were giving Pakistan F16s at half price by funding 50% of it but honestly never heard of wheat for F16. Even so, what is your point? Was it not transparent or did you think we were unfair?

2. I believe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how loans from countries work. You see, when we invested in China, all our US companies built out Chinese projects, employing the majority of Chinese citizens so they could be skilled as a workforce.

China helped us in establishing our defense industry and now we export 200 million $ worth of arms each year

https://www.brecorder.com/2019/11/09/543001/pakistans-arms-exports-witness-exponential-growth/

China is helping us build nuclear reactors to ease our energy needs

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nuclear-reactor-in-pakistan-wnn-idUSKBN1DO1W6

They are helping us in construction of huge hydroelectric projects
http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/china-build-2bn-dam-pakistans-swat-river/

They are shifting lower tier manufacturing here
https://www.dawn.com/news/1516599

While others kept on decreasing visas for our students China stepped in

http://www.cpecinfo.com/news/china-top-education-destination-for-pakistani-students/Njc5Nw==

You guys should offer us something similar As at the end of the day it's all good business @PakSword

Remember the famous saying, Aint no such thing as free lunch.

If you offer us a bigger plate with more meat in it we may consider something

China is ripping you off sounds good on paper but in reality the opposite is true
The first smartphone company to set a plant in Pakistan is going to be Chinese

For starters US should pledge a few towards Diamer Bhasha dam you know for old times sake
I mean we need to be extra sure we are not being played here
@Moonlight @PakSword
Don't you agree? I mean the number one crisis for the future we have is water right?
China has pledged billions that is a high bar

 

[xyxmt]

Creative responses, yet unfair because you can't show me a single instance of any of them being true.

Why your politicians start crying when Pakistan bans your NGOs...yes I cannot show you a single instance.

 

[Zibago]

Creative responses, yet unfair because you can't show me a single instance of any of them being true.

Um the NGO story is way too recent to dismiss but I am not going to jump into that US can't arm twist without leverage which we are not to keen to provide

 

[M.Bison]

I'll give you an honest answer if you could consume with eyes wide open . It's not a secret, and your establishment knows it but won't openly say it. The following is real knowledge the US has on the deal, on Gawdar in this case.

1. Gwadar has zero to do with Chinese energy independence. Quite frankly, if that were the goal of the Chinese or the result of having Gwadar was some miraculous energy dependence, the US would be pleased (believe it or not). That would make it a pure economic outcome

2. The ultimate Chinese goal for Gwadar is to prime it up as a military/ naval base for the Chinese. They have already got a 45-year full control lease on it, currently? That is going to turn into 99 eventually because they are doing what they did to Sri Lanka to Pakistan through the loan terms on CPEC. You will default on specific aspects of the loan and will be forced to give them full autonomous access to that port for much oner than 45 years

If we can come and help Pakistan grow on its own with fair, equitable loans and grants, maybe we have a chance at salvaging the situation for both Pakistan and ourselves. Unless, of course, if you want to be under bone-crushing debt under Chinese loan terms and rather give them your sovereign lands.

Was that honest enough and candid enough?

The issue is that the United States cannot offer anything to Pakistan that the Chinese won't beat. There are no incentives for the Pakistani Government to prefer USA over China. Right now and since its inception Pakistan's national security concern has been the Indians. A foreign service officer should know that.

The Chinese offer full military integration to Pakistan so that it can have a fair chance against India. The issue is not what type of development the United States or Chinese offer to Pakistan. Pakistani foreign policy is centered around India and specifically Kashmir. Pakistan will never risk decades of Chinese-Pakistani cooperation so that they can have a few good months with the USA.

The State Department needs to reorganize and train people with knowledge and understanding. Your propaganda game is strong but you don't understand basic things.

 

[SD 10]

1
Why not all investment is welcome as long as it has no hidden objectives


Google says hi

and you think that USA won't have hidden objectives?

 

[Zibago]

and you think that USA won't have hidden objectives?

It does and that is exactly why we need to be cautious

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

The issue is that the United States cannot offer anything to Pakistan that the Chinese won't beat. There are no incentives for the Pakistani Government to prefer USA over China. Right now and since its inception Pakistan's national security concern has been the Indians. A foreign service officer should know that.

The Chinese offer full military integration to Pakistan so that it can have a fair chance against India. The issue is not what type of development the United States or Chinese offer to Pakistan. Pakistani foreign policy is centered around India and specifically Kashmir. Pakistan will never risk decades of Chinese-Pakistani cooperation so that they can have a few good months with the USA.

The State Department needs to reorganize and train people with knowledge and understanding. Your propaganda game is strong but you don't understand basic things.

I'm a bit tickled that given the scenario I played out in my reply; you showed no concern or asked a question about China's aim to grab your sovereign land. An intriguing behavior.

We are well aware of the India issue for Pakistan; we are asked to broker it all the time. India and Kashmir were a concern when you fought multiple wars over it, and the Americans were your predominate ally back then. Btw, did the Chinese come pouring across the border for you in those four wars and attack India?


I suppose we are fools and IK coming to Americans asking for aid, brokering on Kashmir, and more investment is a figment of our imagination. I'll be sure to pass on your advice to my colleagues on how we should train for and understand basic things. Thanks

 

[pakpride00090]

I'm a bit tickled that given the scenario I played out in my reply; you showed no concern or asked a question about China's aim to grab your sovereign land. An intriguing behavior.

We are well aware of the India issue for Pakistan; we are asked to broker it all the time. India and Kashmir were a concern when you fought multiple wars over it, and the Americans were your predominate ally back then. Btw, did the Chinese come pouring across the border for you in those four wars and attack India?


I suppose we are fools and IK coming to Americans asking for aid, brokering on Kashmir, and more investment is a figment of our imagination. I'll be sure to pass on your advice to my colleagues on how we should train for and understand basic things. Thanks

Imran never asked for aid. You need to check your sources.. You just made a rookie mistake there.

Second.Let me clarify the word " aid" . That money is not Aid. That money rightfully belongs to us. Americans cleverly named that money aid in-order to fool people. That money was supposed to be paid for the services Pakistan rendered. The word " aid" is just a misnomer

Brokering on Kashmir was in the interest of US as nuclear war is harmful to everyone in this world. But the good thing is , Khan quickly realized his foreign policy mistake. Hoping America would do the right thing is a wrong thing. We have seen what they have done with Palestine. We have seen what they have done with muslim countries. We have seen what Mr.Trump's statement have been with regard to muslims. Khan should have never hoped for anything. It was in-fact US that put Pak on FATF , allowed and gave India permission to attack Pakistan and then annex Kashmir.
We at PDF know that since US state department and pentagon is full of anti-Pakistan shills. That goes for all major think-tanks and policy makers.

About the investment thing. He just asked for increase in trade. He does that to every country in the world. How is that unique to US ? You are looking way too deep into it.


All in all. I don't think you are from US. Even if you were,I smell a gangu larping as white Caucasian. You couldn't even get basic facts right.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Would you clarify- What do you mean by saying our objective is to get more information on CPEC? Surely, going about it by investing in your country is an expensive proposition when we could simply get access to your deal terms in other ways. BTW - I suspect we know everything we need to know about CPEC.



How so? And do you prefer we bring investments on similar terms as the Chinese to the table? we are talking about offering fair and equitable investments.

That's a big and massive if. We dont have the same amount trust on americans as we do on the chinese. To us Americans are pathological liars. Heck even common Canadians dont like you guys.

 

[guest9999]

I'm a bit tickled that given the scenario I played out in my reply; you showed no concern or asked a question about China's aim to grab your sovereign land. An intriguing behavior.

We are well aware of the India issue for Pakistan; we are asked to broker it all the time. India and Kashmir were a concern when you fought multiple wars over it, and the Americans were your predominate ally back then. Btw, did the Chinese come pouring across the border for you in those four wars and attack India?

I suppose we are fools and IK coming to Americans asking for aid, brokering on Kashmir, and more investment is a figment of our imagination. I'll be sure to pass on your advice to my colleagues on how we should train for and understand basic things. Thanks

Thank you for taking the time to explain potential US investment in Pakistan - I am one of the few here who will welcome US investment in Pakistan, provided it benefits the country. I'm aware that US is actually Pakistan's largest export destination, hopefully this will continue to increase further.

If you don't mind, can you please answer these questions:

• Do you have any idea as to which US companies are planning to invest in Pakistan and in which sectors?
• Do you think that the US-China trade war has led to this point - turning Pakistan into an attractive offshoring/outsourcing destination that can provide cheaper goods without the IP-loss-risk China guarantees?
• Does the US intend to take advantage of Pakistan's strategic location to facilitate the movement of oil, gas, etc. via pipelines from Central Asia to Gwadar? Could this possibly be due to future improvement in Afghan situation? If so, do you envision US assistance in building energy infrastructure, rail, etc. linking Central Asia to Gwadar?
• Pakistan is trying to wean itself off of aid - caused by myopic foreign policies of previous government(s) - both military & civil. However, I would imagine a peace deal in Afghan would still invite economic aid to rebuild infrastructure in war-torn Afghan, which could be funneled to US companies. This should be extended to KPK and Balochistan as these areas were also negatively affected by the WoT. Do you think such a scenario is likely, post withdrawal from Afghan.?

 

[M.Bison]

I'm a bit tickled that given the scenario I played out in my reply; you showed no concern or asked a question about China's aim to grab your sovereign land. An intriguing behavior.

We are well aware of the India issue for Pakistan; we are asked to broker it all the time. India and Kashmir were a concern when you fought multiple wars over it, and the Americans were your predominate ally back then. Btw, did the Chinese come pouring across the border for you in those four wars and attack India?


I suppose we are fools and IK coming to Americans asking for aid, brokering on Kashmir, and more investment is a figment of our imagination. I'll be sure to pass on your advice to my colleagues on how we should train for and understand basic things. Thanks

I didn't think it was important to respond to something that I already addressed in previous posts. Anyways, the Chinese have not shown any attempt to grab sovereign land within Pakistan. Americans, however, have thrown hellfire missiles on Pakistani sovereign territory. Killing thousands of innocent women and children.

Americans never brokered anything between the Indians and Pakistanis. Americans have always tried to put India in front of Pakistan. America's dream is to have Pakistan lay under the Indians but that won't be happening anytime soon.

Don't be so naive. Who asked the Chinese to come pouring across the border to help Pakistan? I was not aware of that information. Pakistan did, however, ask the Chinese to help with military technology and independence. I would say that the Chinese have gone above and beyond in their attempts to help the Pakistanis fight the Indians.

What have the Americans done? Americans have sanctioned Pakistan and then put Pakistan on FATF. The f-16, apache and other fiascos are there as examples of American-Pakistani cooperation. I am sure you have not learned about them. 70k dead and billons lost.

It is a well-known fact, that IK came to the United States because of an invitation extended by the Trump administration. The fact is that Trump needed Pakistan for a peace agreement with the Taliban so that he can secure the next term as president. As you know 19 years of war is hard on the American people and it was going to make a perfect election campaign slogan.

So what did you expect Pakistan to do? broker peace for free.. you know thats not the American way.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

I didn't think it was important to respond to something that I already addressed in previous posts. Anyways, the Chinese have not shown any attempt to grab sovereign land within Pakistan. Americans, however, have thrown hellfire missiles on Pakistani sovereign territory. Killing thousands of innocent women and children.

Americans never brokered anything between the Indians and Pakistanis. Americans have always tried to put India in front of Pakistan. America's dream is to have Pakistan lay under the Indians but that won't be happening anytime soon.

Don't be so naive. Who asked the Chinese to come pouring across the border to help Pakistan? I was not aware of that information. Pakistan did, however, ask the Chinese to help with military technology and independence. I would say that the Chinese have gone above and beyond in their attempts to help the Pakistanis fight the Indians.

What have the Americans done? Americans have sanctioned Pakistan and then put Pakistan on FATF. The f-16, apache and other fiascos are there as examples of American-Pakistani cooperation. I am sure you have not learned about them. 70k dead and billons lost.

It is a well-known fact, that IK came to the United States because of an invitation extended by the Trump administration. The fact is that Trump needed Pakistan for a peace agreement with the Taliban so that he can secure the next term as president. As you know 19 years of war is hard on the American people and it was going to make a perfect election campaign slogan.

So what did you expect Pakistan to do? broker peace for free.. you know thats not the American way.

That's an interesting collage of assumptions, mixed with a few truths and lots of conspiracies about American policy, our history vis-a-vis Pakistan and intent. I can't be pulled into a rabbit hole over it, so I'll just let your claims go unchallenged. I am curious though what brought you to live among us; the folks you blame for 70k lives of countrymen lost and billions in revenue?