Investment from US as US is sending 15 trade delegations to Pakistan next year: Wells

[pakpride00090]

That's an interesting collage of assumptions, mixed with a few truths and lots of conspiracies about American policy, our history vis-a-vis Pakistan and intent. I can't be pulled into a rabbit hole over it, so I'll just let your claims go unchallenged. I am curious though what brought you to live among us; the folks you blame for 70k lives of countrymen lost and billions in revenue?

Of course you will now make excuses to runaway from the discussion .. After all when someone isn't as well-versed in history and facts , he makes BS excuses to run away.

 

[M.Bison]

That's an interesting collage of assumptions, mixed with a few truths and lots of conspiracies about American policy, our history vis-a-vis Pakistan and intent. I can't be pulled into a rabbit hole over it, so I'll just let your claims go unchallenged. I am curious though what brought you to live among us; the folks you blame for 70k lives of countrymen lost and billions in revenue?

That is good. Few truths are better than a bag full of lies and propaganda.

The same reason why anyone else comes to the United States. Same reason your forefathers came to live among "us". It was hard for my parents to resist the opportunity and of course, when they came they made the country better. They added to the economy and flourished within a few decades.

Oh, what Curiosity! Now we have come down to the real issues. My question is, that if I question American foreign policy does that make me less of a citizen? Or maybe you think that "Pakistani"- Americans don't have the right to question the government? Maybe you think that only people from the bayou have that right.

I really hope you don't go into the A Few Good Men routine with me...

 

[Zibago]

I suppose we are fools and IK coming to Americans asking for aid, brokering on Kashmir, and more investment is a figment of our imagination. I'll be sure to pass on your advice to my colleagues on how we should train for and understand basic things. Thanks

We are not saying no to investment but this investment cant be used to cancel out prior engagements
A more open business environment can really get things going
We are far too invested to just let it go
http://www.cpecinfo.com/news/chines...ne-manufacturing-factory-in-pakistan/ODAxNQ==

But the agri sector can benefit a lot from US investment a more Vietnam style approach to the economy will help everyone

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Thank you for taking the time to explain potential US investment in Pakistan - I am one of the few here who will welcome US investment in Pakistan, provided it benefits the country. I'm aware that US is actually Pakistan's largest export destination, hopefully this will continue to increase further.

If you don't mind, can you please answer these questions:

• Do you have any idea as to which US companies are planning to invest in Pakistan and in which sectors?
• Do you think that the US-China trade war has led to this point - turning Pakistan into an attractive offshoring/outsourcing destination that can provide cheaper goods without the IP-loss-risk China guarantees?
• Does the US intend to take advantage of Pakistan's strategic location to facilitate the movement of oil, gas, etc. via pipelines from Central Asia to Gwadar? Could this possibly be due to future improvement in Afghan situation? If so, do you envision US assistance in building energy infrastructure, rail, etc. linking Central Asia to Gwadar?
• Pakistan is trying to wean itself off of aid - caused by myopic foreign policies of previous government(s) - both military & civil. However, I would imagine a peace deal in Afghan would still invite economic aid to rebuild infrastructure in war-torn Afghan, which could be funneled to US companies. This should be extended to KPK and Balochistan as these areas were also negatively affected by the WoT. Do you think such a scenario is likely, post withdrawal from Afghan.?

Hi Incognito. I'll try to answer as best and briefly. I don't speak for the state department or official US foreign policy, I just state what I know and given my experience.

1. I don't have any idea about companies and sectors coming next year. I would assume energy, technology, retail, agriculture and automotive, MAYBE petrochemicals and mining too
2. There has not been a pivot towards Pakistan frankly. Everyone here so far seems to think we had some epiphany. It is the same position we've had of not giving up Pakistan to the Chinese. There is also a security concern, which I detailed on post#81. And the US-China trade war has not played into it in any manner of significance.
3. The US most definitely wants to see the TAPI progress and be completed. Thank you for bringing that up, it is an essential goal for the US, and for regional players to have such an agreement. Gwadar is not a port of much significance for the US, and we don't see trade route into central Asia dependent on this port for us. It is a security concern for us though as detailed in the previous post
4. That's an interesting thought on possible aid to KPK and Baluchistan, but highly unlikely that any future US aid will be designated in such a ubiquitous manner to cover multiple countries over rebuilding efforts. We've already poured a lot in Afghanistan, and at this point, I only see China and India as other aid - rebuilding partners in the region. I'm pretty sure one among them won't bother with KPK and Balochistan.

That is good. Few truths are better than a bag full of lies and propaganda.

The same reason why anyone else comes to the United States. Same reason your forefathers came to live among "us". It was hard for my parents to resist the opportunity and of course, when they came they made the country better. They added to the economy and flourished within a few decades.

Oh, what Curiosity! Now we have come down to the real issues. My question is, that if I question American foreign policy does that make me less of a citizen? Or maybe you think that "Pakistani"- Americans don't have the right to question the government? Maybe you think that only people from the bayou have that right.

I really hope you don't go into the A Few Good Men routine with me...

It's interesting to mask it as questioning the country. You'll have to admit- Well, maybe not have to- free country and all. Interesting because you don't question, you've made conspiratorial accusations as absolutes about us, even accusing us of killing 70k of your people. While effusively raving and praising the Chinese, a know dictatorial and harsh regime. That's not 'questioning us' behavior. I'm happy that your parents came over. Immigrants are our strength.

 

[M.Bison]

It's interesting to mask it as questioning the country. You'll have to admit- Well, maybe not have to- free country and all. Interesting because you don't question, you've made wild conspiratorial accusations as absolutes about us, even accusing us of killing 70k of your people. While raving and praising the Chinese, a know dictatorial and harsh regime. That's not 'questioning us' behavior. I'm happy that your parents came over. Immigrants are our strength.

My claims are not that conspiratorial. It was a simple cause and effect scenario. Pakistan had no quarrel with the Taliban and only joined because of a dictator who was heavily supported by the United States.
The Americans inturn brought in crazy terrorist drug dealers who poured into Pakistan as refugees. These Afghani rats started to kill Pakistanis for no reason. Now Pakistan has to deal with the magical ISIS that is going to be left behind after 19 years of occupation.

It is not as black as white as you would like to make it seem. I don't rave or praise the Chinese. I was trying to educate you but of course, jingoism is more comforting. The Chinese are just a means to an end and it could have been Genghis Khan. What matters is that Pakistan survives the change in the world order. It is probably better if it hedges its bets against the supporters of the Indians.

 

[Enigma SIG]

When we send trade delegations, our investing companies and efforts always come with the following:

1. We will be transparent. You will know the terms of the investment, loans, or aid.
2. We will happily submit our business, investment terms, and or loan terms to world bodies that are in place to ensure the loanee is not getting fleeced. Typically referred to as the Paris group. No hidden terms of high-interest deals from the citizens
3. We will not insist that workers, companies, and support shall be only American companies. OR demand as a part of the deal that American workers will be shifted into your country over hiring your workforce.
4. Our investing companies will provide skill-based training and an ecosystem that ensures the host country's workforce learn, get skilled, and can be a workforce that can run things on their own.

Flies in the face of every political / economical threat the US has given to Pakistan in the last 40/50 years.

 

[PakSword]

If we can come and help Pakistan grow on its own with fair, equitable loans and grants, maybe we have a chance at salvaging the situation for both Pakistan and ourselves. Unless, of course, if you want to be under bone-crushing debt under Chinese loan terms and rather give them your sovereign lands.

Was that honest enough and candid enough?

You guys have missed the train. Pakistan really needed you in 1990s when you guys packed your stuff in our neighborhood and left without cleaning the mess you created. We helped you in achieving your ultimate objectives against USSR and got Pressler amendment in return. You guys never helped Kashmiris in their right of self determination. For you, market size mattered the most, upholding morality took the back seat. Pakistan had to play it's own game in Afghanistan to secure it's Western borders. You came back and sided with India, who worked against Pakistan's interests by creating TTP. Pakistan still helped you while fighting it's own war on terror. There was no NATO support. Pakistan never crossed international border to fight the terrorists which were harming our interests, while you crossed the border several times and killed innocent Pakistanis, once 400 children in a single madarsa.

While you guys were making sure that Pakistan doesn't get quality defence items on Indian behest, China was helping us building our own industry, and now we are exporter of arms as well. Our JF 17 fighter's third block is on the way with AESA radar integrated with 200 kms BVR missile. We have been provided recently with a latest radar facility by China that identifies stealth objects from as far as 500kms away. Despite your full cooperation with India, India showed you a middle finger when you wanted to sell your F-16s to them. They bought several hundreds of SU 30s while China helped us in EW in February this year that blinded Indian pilots.

The list is long man.. we have identified who is our friend and who is not. China is raising Kashmir issue on every forum while you are trying hard to put our name in FATF's blacklist. Sure you go ahead. You have probably realized that Pakistan has stopped requesting anything, any support from you guys. Our new government and officials only visit you when you want to request something, not the other way around. These 15 delegations are coming because you want to send them.. we really don't care if tomorrow you don't want to invest.

Pakistan has strategic level relations with China, and both of us will make sure you don't leave without clearing the mess in our neighborhood again. We will clear our neighborhood from Indian street shitters because we can't handle the shit smell on our both sides, so that we fully focus on our eastern side and help our brethren in Kashmir. And sorry to break your heart, China is helping us in that objective. So just sit back, relax, think about it that until when you can remain in Afghanistan, ponder on how to make use of an emerging port in the region, and get out of our neighborhood for good. Thank you.

@Zibago @Mangus Ortus Novem @Shane @Dubious @The Eagle

 

[Crystal-Clear]

A Friend in need is a friend indeed . which usa is not .

 

[Zibago]

You guys have missed the train. Pakistan really needed you in 1990s when you guys packed your stuff in our neighborhood and left without cleaning the mess you created. We helped you in achieving your ultimate objectives against USSR and got Pressler amendment in return. You guys never helped Kashmiris in their right of self determination. For you, market size mattered the most, upholding morality took the back seat. Pakistan had to play it's own game in Afghanistan to secure it's Western borders. You came back and sided with India, who worked against Pakistan's interests by creating TTP. Pakistan still helped you while fighting it's own war on terror. There was no NATO support. Pakistan never crossed international border to fight the terrorists which were harming our interests, while you crossed the border several times and killed innocent Pakistanis, once 400 children in a single madarsa.

While you guys were making sure that Pakistan doesn't get quality defence items on Indian behest, China was helping us building our own industry, and now we are exporter of arms as well. Our JF 17 fighter's third block is on the way with AESA radar integrated with 200 kms BVR missile. We have been provided recently with a latest radar facility by China that identifies stealth objects from as far as 500kms away. Despite your full cooperation with India, India showed you a middle finger when you wanted to sell your F-16s to them. They bought several hundreds of SU 30s while China helped us in EW in February this year that blinded Indian pilots.

The list is long man.. we have identified who is our friend and who is not. China is raising Kashmir issue on every forum while you are trying hard to put our name in FATF's blacklist. Sure you go ahead. You have probably realized that Pakistan has stopped requesting anything, any support from you guys. Our new government and officials only visit you when you want to request something, not the other way around. These 15 delegations are coming because you want to send them.. we really don't care if tomorrow you don't want to invest.

Pakistan has strategic level relations with China, and both of us will make sure you don't leave without clearing the mess in our neighborhood again. We will clear our neighborhood from Indian street shitters because we can't handle the shit smell on our both sides, so that we fully focus on our eastern side and help our brethren in Kashmir. And sorry to break your heart, China is helping us in that objective. So just sit back, relax, think about it that until when you can remain in Afghanistan, ponder on how to make use of an emerging port in the region, and get out of our neighborhood for good. Thank you.

@Zibago @Mangus Ortus Novem @Shane @Dubious @The Eagle

Ofcourse that doesnot mean investment is unwelcome its more than welcome but its going to be a+b not a-b

 

[The Accountant]

When we send trade delegations, our investing companies and efforts always come with the following:

1. We will be transparent. You will know the terms of the investment, loans, or aid.
2. We will happily submit our business, investment terms, and or loan terms to world bodies that are in place to ensure the loanee is not getting fleeced. Typically referred to as the Paris group. No hidden terms of high-interest deals from the citizens
3. We will not insist that workers, companies, and support shall be only American companies. OR demand as a part of the deal that American workers will be shifted into your country over hiring your workforce.
4. Our investing companies will provide skill-based training and an ecosystem that ensures the host country's workforce learn, get skilled, and can be a workforce that can run things on their own.

Incorrect.

1. U charge profits through transfer pricing.
2. Key ingredients always remain imported from companies like 3M, dupont etc. Hence mininum tech transfer.
3. Yes u dont bring in your guys but keep all decision making in your hand theough regional offices and charge expenses through intercompany billing.

In short investment is good for us but it is also not a charity by u so stop pretending it like that . Its a mutual beneficial thing and u will not come unless u have profit expectations

 

[Verve]

They have already got a 45-year full control lease on it, currently? That is going to turn into 99 eventually

So? If Pakistanis are OK with that, why are you crying about it?

Didn't we give you based to use for attacking Taliban? Did China object to that?

Our land and we can lease it to whomever we want. Stay the F out of our business. You nuked Japan and then got bases there pretty much permanently so you have no legs to stand on re Pak China affairs!

And US and UK were excluded from investment invitation in CPEC. So it's unlikely that the 15 delegations will succeed in their aims. Without China's approval, US companies won't get any space in CPEC SEZ.

 

[xyxmt]

Good. Trade, not aid.

if they cant get you by aid then they will get you by trade. The point is if you want to invest be our guest, don't expect any special dealings. Remember US multinationals are who design US foreign policy.

 

[bafxet]

US would have done a lot for Pakistan post 9/11 in case they were genuinely interest. But they started milk our armed forces by saying do more. Undoubtedly the Credit goes to gen Bajwa who got them off our backs.

 

[niaz]

It is impossible to deny and I would be the first one to admit that the USA has done a lot of Pakistan. However, most of the help & assistance came following the Korean War primarily because the USA considered the Communion as the biggest threat to her security and the focus of its foreign policy was to construct a ‘Noose’ around the Soviet Union through military pacts with the pliant nations all around the globe. Pakistan was one such nation. Before we go any further, permit me to describe what I understand about the national psyche of the USA.

Roger Brubaker in his article “In the name of the nation: reflections on nationalism & Patriotism” published in 2004 defined nationalism as “A heterogeneous set of ‘nation’- oriented idioms, practices, and possibilities that are continuously available or ‘endemic’ in modern cultural and political life.”

Nationalism per se is not a bad thing and can contribute to human progress and economic vitality of the country through collective efforts. Kennedy often declared: “Don’t ask what the country can do for you but what you can do for your country”.

However it nationalism can also contribute to violence, fear, and international conflict because it often encourages fears of other religions or races or cultures or ethnic groups. Nationalism can, therefore, be mobilized for violence and scapegoating as Nazi Germany did to their Jewish population.

I am probably generalizing too much, but IMO during my cognitive lifetime; American nationalism often borders on ‘Chauvinism’ which implies not only pride in one’s own nation/country, but assertions of superiority over others.” For example, when the USA applies sanctions, it threatens to confiscate assets of foreign own companies/banks that are operating within the USA, basically denying normal rights of free will to those who disagree with her policies.

Donald Trump politics is based on ‘Chauvinism’ in the extreme, implying that only his way is the right way and his actions such as rejecting the Kyoto Accord on the environment, canceling Nuclear Accord with Iran, accepting Jerusalem as the Israeli Capital and declaring Israeli settlements on Palestinian owned land as ‘Legal’ is correct. Whereas to rest of the world, neither of these actions have any moral. ethical or legal justification. America companies always toe the gov’t line.

It must, therefore, be understood; except by the extremely naïve; that the USA will be your friend only until it is in the US’s interest and her policies will take a 180-degree turn as soon your usefulness to the US ends.

In the current international political scenario, Pakistan is only of limited benefit to the US while India is the pivot against China. Hence, beyond keeping the US neutral; pining hopes of major trade benefits from the trade delegation is nothing more than wishful thinking.

China’s extensive Belt & Road program of which CPEC is a part; involves trillions of dollars invested in Asia, Africa & Europe. Its benefits to China are clearly evident. These being:

Expansion of China’s export markets, the promotion of Chinese Currency Renminbi as an alternative to US Dollar and indirect political influence through economic cooperation & trade. The investment in the developing countries' infrastructure is primarily intended to reduce transportation of Chinese imports & exports. The benefit to the developing country is only a by-product.

CPEC appears to be good on the surface but do we really know all the pros & cons especially relating to Pakistan? Won’t this massive investment also cause a massive increase in national debt? How much would really be the CPEC Transit Fee and would it more than offset debt repayment? And what would be the real impact on Pakistan’s textile sector due to the availability of the cheap & better quality Chinese textiles?

China may have thus far been a friend in need. However, in this world, there are no free lunches. Therefore, what would the real cost? Only the time will tell, thus I reserve my judgment.

Suggest reading the following article:

“China-Pakistan Economic Corridor: Opportunities and Risks”

https://www.crisisgroup.org/asia/so...tan-economic-corridor-opportunities-and-risks

 

[ziaulislam]

That's easy to take care of, make sure there is no such clause or requirements in the terms. We have current US companies investing in Pakistan- we also have our government investing, have either asked you to be a pet dog to India that you point me to, please?


FATF consists of several world members, including China who voted to keep you on an enhanced grey list last time, why blame us specifically.

you choose your battles..the process was initiated by USA with france