Intolerant behaviour of Lal Masjid students and display of arms

[HAIDER]

If take deep analysis, it sounds Pakistan is victim of two poles pull strategy. One pole is Saudi house of saud and other end is US who is working to pull out from increasing influence of Saud Wahabi influence in Pakistan. Ultimately Saudies wants some return, what they paid to Pakistan and financing during Afghan war. Saudi know they have no potential being nuclear power till next 500 years. Plus will never have such stable military, who can protect and has sympathy for Saudi monarchy. Wants to control Pakistan through using religion. And anybody who raise the voice against this vague religious implementation , would easy be called "murtid" and killed in the absence of modern judiciary.

 

[waraich66]

If take deep analysis, it sounds Pakistan is victim of two poles pull strategy. One pole is Saudi house of saud and other end is US who is working to pull out from increasing influence of Saud Wahabi influence in Pakistan. Ultimately Saudies wants some return, what they paid to Pakistan and financing during Afghan war. Saudi know they have no potential being nuclear power till next 500 years. Plus will never have such stable military, who can protect and has sympathy for Saudi monarchy. Wants to control Pakistan through using religion. And anybody who raise the voice against this vague religious implementation , would easy be called "murtid" and killed in the absence of modern judiciary.

Saudi Arabia helped us financially in development of nukes.

Saudi Sponcered Dawah activities already banned all over the world .

There is no wahabi sect or fiqa in islam .Saudi follow shafi or hambli or malki fiqa little different from Hanafi.

All muslim should be united to resolve their problem,which is most difficult thing.

 

[HAIDER]

Well Saudi mutwa and taliban street power two sides of same coin. Punishment at the spot. Non seen beheading human being ever, only in arab society. Beheading a human being and shouting the sacred name of Allah....Never seen any other religion or fiqa. Hambli and Shafi are school of thoughts, like any other. But hardcore is product of Saudies and British boy Abdul Wahab. No body is pointing finger at school of thought , but those who mold the religion just for control or make their mind slave in the name of religion.

 

[waraich66]

Well Saudi mutwa and taliban street power two sides of same coin. Punishment at the spot. Non seen beheading human being ever, only in arab society. Beheading a human being and shouting the scared name of Allah....Never seen any other religion or fiqa. Hambli and Shafi are school of thoughts, like any other. But hardcore is product of Saudies and British boy Abdul Wahab. No body is pointing finger at school of thought , but those who mold the religion just for control or make their mind slave in the name of religion.

Islamic punishments should only be implemented in society if shariah 100% implemented in islamic society not through force but with will of majority population.

There is not a single muslim country have shariah justice system or shariah law and islamic shaurah (legislation assembly) .Who ever is practicing islamic punishment is wrong.

 

[sohailbutt]

Well Saudi mutwa and taliban street power two sides of same coin. Punishment at the spot. Non seen beheading human being ever, only in arab society. Beheading a human being and shouting the sacred name of Allah....Never seen any other religion or fiqa. Hambli and Shafi are school of thoughts, like any other. But hardcore is product of Saudies and British boy Abdul Wahab. No body is pointing finger at school of thought , but those who mold the religion just for control or make their mind slave in the name of religion.

Sir, with all due respect, i object to your post.

Can you define the role of a "Mutawa"?

Because there is a big difference between a mutawa and a lunatic taliban, but i would like to hear from you, what made you say that which I highlighted above in your post.

 

[Patriot]

Let's not blame Saudis.It was Pakistanis after all who turned into Talibanization ideology regardless of Saudi Funding.They have helped us ALOT through last 62 years.Pakistan should always have very good strategic relationship with Saudis.

 

[Nomad]

I say that the problem Pakistan facing today is all because of lack of education to our people, if majority of them are educated and busy in their lives, doing their jobs in the Country, this means that they will not be distracted with these activities like taking up arms etc, thus no violence, and a happy life altogether.
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By this logic India should have a huge number of these people. I can go down a list of many countries where the level of education is worse than Pakistan who do not have this kind of extremism. So the problem lies deeper. Without addressing the real problem if you educate the people you will get educated extremist and the problem will get worse.

 

[Nomad]

I have to say this the Pakistanis are very blind with respect to Islam.If somebody steals and say that it is done for betterment of Islam then some hardcore Muslims (Pakistanis) will even justify that.This LM thug should have been taken through secret assassination by Army Snipers before our so called Lawyers freed him.

Excellent post. This is the crux of the problem. There seems to be few guide lines of what is acceptable or not acceptable in Islam. So when every two bit mullah says this is Islam no one says any thing no matter how wrong it is. This problem has to be addressed before anything else is going to make a difference.

 

[sohailbutt]

By this logic India should have a huge number of these people. I can go down a list of many countries where the level of education is worse than Pakistan who do not have this kind of extremism. So the problem lies deeper. Without addressing the real problem if you educate the people you will get educated extremist and the problem will get worse.

I donot agree with your view, you see my strategy is long term, you can curb the violance only in the short term using force, but to change ideoligies permanently you need progress, open mind, and education, all in the long run.

Please donot bring in India here, and derail the thread or any other country for that matter.

Pakistan's situation is unique you just cannot compare India or any other Country with us, all the fall out of cold war came straight on to Pakistan, which crippled out Country and it's economy, and now today we face this US grown menace, in our FATA, and Northern areas. Had the US done something about Afghanistan after the war was over, we would not be in the situation we are today, and also US would not be fighting this so called WOT.

The people in these areas were raised and taught to fight USSR (as mujahideen), using US money and weapons, and with USSR broken they (mujahideen) had nothing else to do, except terrorize the people of Afghanistan and the areas bordering Afghanistan in Pakistan, so they (now taliban) have now these extremists ideoligies which they follow, and these idioligies cannot be changed overnight my friend.

Hope you get my point.

 

[HAIDER]

Well mutawa and taliban both "forced" people to close their business during salat. Plus mutawa play both side recently, protect extremist and informer both. And most important fact, just like China, Saudies should also try to keep govt to govt contacts. Stopfunding to these militant producing madrassahs.

Lets address very important fact here, few years back read in paper about the real role behind OBL and company in Afganistan was not to let any gas line pass through Afghanistan. Whole sole reason behind this militancy was not to let down Saudies monopoly in oil production. If US explore and utilize the mineral resources from central asia, that would completely abolish the Saudi monopoly among oil producing countries. In this militancy not just Saudieis involve, all other arab nations are involve. But this militancy harming Pakistan interest in that region, because end point of all these lines located in Gawadar port. For the reference you can consult Unacol.
Basically these taliban serving oil producing arab countries interest.
And i would say those who are providing us AID making country a totally beggars bowl. I wish US do all project himself, if US govt utilize 1.5 billion/year aid by building us the projects himself that would benefit people of Pakistan and that would help to rebuild the damage image of US. Initiate and finish the project, trained and handover to Pakistani PEOPLE. Not provide any cash funds to corrupt Pakistani govt.

 

[Solomon2]

I wish US do all project himself, if US govt utilize 1.5 billion/year aid by building us the projects himself that would benefit people of Pakistan and that would help to rebuild the damage image of US. Initiate and finish the project, trained and handover to Pakistani PEOPLE. Not provide any cash funds to corrupt Pakistani govt.

The Chinese say, "Give a man a fish and you have fed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you have fed him for life."

 

[Nomad]

I donot agree with your view, you see my strategy is long term, you can curb the violance only in the short term using force, but to change ideoligies permanently you need progress, open mind, and education, all in the long run.

Please donot bring in India here, and derail the thread or any other country for that matter.

Pakistan's situation is unique you just cannot compare India or any other Country with us, all the fall out of cold war came straight on to Pakistan, which crippled out Country and it's economy, and now today we face this US grown menace, in our FATA, and Northern areas. Had the US done something about Afghanistan after the war was over, we would not be in the situation we are today, and also US would not be fighting this so called WOT.

The people in these areas were raised and taught to fight USSR (as mujahideen), using US money and weapons, and with USSR broken they (mujahideen) had nothing else to do, except terrorize the people of Afghanistan and the areas bordering Afghanistan in Pakistan, so they (now taliban) have now these extremists ideoligies which they follow, and these idioligies cannot be changed overnight my friend.

Hope you get my point.

It is not my intention to derail the thread. The point that was originally brought up was that education could solve the extremist behavior that we are seeing in Pakistan. I am saying there are deeper issues, and unless they are addressed nothing will change. After the Soviet invasion there was already the mujahadeen fighting the soviets with money comming from the middle east. The US upped the ante by providing more money and better weapons. When the Soviets withdrew why should the US be the one to solve the problems. The mujahadeen would have turned on the US. Why did the islamic countries not do any thing? The US helped Afghanis get their freedom what more do they want.

 

[dabong1]

Ok start with Musharraf, include the VCoAS, the commander X corps, commander SSG, Police and Punjab Rangers IGs, and all of the people who took part in the operation and while while you are at it, pat the Maulana sahib and his band of thugs on the back for killing that useless Colonel of the SSG and that Rangers' jawan who just happened to get killed because the supporters of Maulana sahib were just shooting it up for the fun of it. And while you are jailing all of the above, do not forget the editors of the mainstream newspapers who were just so sick and tired of writing about the excesses of the danda mafia and pleading to the government to check their high handedness.

I would not go that far.......let the minutes of the meetings that took place be put into the public arena and lets see who where the cheerleaders of the attack on lal masjid where.

Be mindful of the fact that this bloodshed was bound to happen. If it did not happen at LM then, it would have happened elsewhere or at LM later because negotiations were being done at gun point on both sides of the issue. The government of the day has the right to wield force. There are people in Indonesia who struggle for the imposition of sharia, however not once have they picked up weapons and resorted to hostage taking as a matter of practice.

Bloodshed was not bound to happen on the scale of LM if the govt had been more wise to the consequences such actions......we let it become a black and white issue.......your either with islam fighting the invaders and your with its allies attacking islam.
The vast majority of the pakistani population will fall head first into the above slogans and take the side of the fantics......we have to start using the same wording as the "taliban"......its should not be called a operation-war in NWFP but a jihad carried out by pakistani army mujahdeen against takfiri wahabi terrorist.
We will never burst the "takfiri wahabi terrorist" balloon but we can deflate it.........covert assassinations of terrorist leaders,joint ops with the US military,sharia under the govt spread across the NWFP,rename the province.
Forget about punching him in the face, lets pollute his water,starve him,create divisions and suspicions amongst the terrorists and right at the end attack with our full force.

The bastion of Islam aka house of Sauds (KSA) would have razed this LM place to the ground if they were challenged as such. Their past actions are for all to see. Sharia is the right of the people of Pakistan, however it has to be imposed by way of acceptance and not the gun.

I hate the present saudi govt more then i hate mushy.

The only point i will make about sharia is that the qazi should have a islamic and science degree.......if he holds only a islamic degree we are doomed in the long trem and we are better off without sharia.

 

[blain2]

I would not go that far.......let the minutes of the meetings that took place be put into the public arena and lets see who where the cheerleaders of the attack on lal masjid where.

Yes so bring them out. Who is stopping those in power from doing so? What ticks me off is the judgments being passed without all of the facts being presented. Ambiguity helps the cause of Maulana sahib and his supporters. This is the reason that you will never see the actual numbers of dead come out. They are in no way above 100 dead. All you will hear and read is many hundreds died without an iota of proof. Dabong, in Pakistan, nobody can put down the Mullah's argument because no matter how wrong his approach, he invokes religion to back himself up and most people are afraid to call his bluff.

Bloodshed was not bound to happen on the scale of LM if the govt had been more wise to the consequences such actions......we let it become a black and white issue.......your either with islam fighting the invaders and your with its allies attacking islam.
The vast majority of the pakistani population will fall head first into the above slogans and take the side of the fantics......we have to start using the same wording as the "taliban"......its should not be called a operation-war in NWFP but a jihad carried out by pakistani army mujahdeen against takfiri wahabi terrorist.

Good point, however who will do so? Who will start this campaign of beating the takfiris at their own game?

We will never burst the "takfiri wahabi terrorist" balloon but we can deflate it.........covert assassinations of terrorist leaders,joint ops with the US military,sharia under the govt spread across the NWFP,rename the province.

Operations should only be conducted by ourselves and not with Americans. The rest I agree if the takfiri side picks up a gun and causes fitna and fassad in Pakistan.

Forget about punching him in the face, lets pollute his water,starve him,create divisions and suspicions amongst the terrorists and right at the end attack with our full force.

All good points.

I hate the present saudi govt more then i hate mushy.

The only point i will make about sharia is that the qazi should have a islamic and science degree.......if he holds only a islamic degree we are doomed in the long trem and we are better off without sharia.

See my issue is not with a Mullah or Maulana (I prefer the latter over the former because of the level of education that the title reflects), I am even fine with people asking for genuine Islamic injunctions being implemented in a Muslim country, however what ticks me off is that in their act of forcing this issue down the throats of the Muslims, they do not realize that they actually weaken Pakistan in every other way. To me this is absolutely no different than the Sauds of KSA kicking the Turks out of Hijaz by backstabbing them just so they could have their compartmentalized tribal version of sharia imposed on KSA. The bigger story is that the rest of the Muslim world got screwed big time by this one single incident of back stabbing. So similarly, all for short term gains, our idiots in FATA could care less that they are blindly killing innocents all over Pakistan just so they could impose their misguided interpretation of Sharia all over Pakistan...there are no ulema amongst them, most have no idea about the worldview beyond that of their village and ilaaqa. Sad state thus I speak out about the need for a firm hand to deliver the nation on rahay-raast.