Indus Viper (Pak-Turkey joint military excercise)

[IceCold]

Ice,

The JF-17 participation has been mentioned by Farhan Bokhari in his article in Janes Defense Weekly dated 17-Apr-2008.

PAF participation would include No 9 and 11 sqns along with CCS.

Thankyou for updating me blain2 sir.

 

[blain2]

No worries my friend

 

[Muradk]

JF-17 will also participate in this exercise, sources said.

Shoot your source Why would PAF put JF-17 in an international Exercise.
Right now JF-17 means nothing. When a plane goes operational it goes through several phases( Operational means having a sqd), Phases like ACM, CAP I can name a thousand other things before they go operational. When you know the plane is capable to kick *** then you put your cards on the table not before that. I don't know if you were born at that time or not when F-20 Tigershark came to karachi on 25th September 1984 and 26th in chaklala for a demo, I was standing right next to someone who said this pilot will kill him self they way he is flying this plane is not ment for such maneuvers. Surly he was right the F-20 crashed in Paris Air show. cause on 28th september two days by monsoon rains in Bangkok The aircraft were parked outside and moisture intruded into its compartment. Tho the company said it was a pilot error. The company was to hasty to get clients and showoff their product ended up as a bad project only one remains in a museum in California.

 

[IceCold]

Shoot your source Why would PAF put JF-17 in an international Exercise.
Right now JF-17 means nothing. When a plane goes operational it goes through several phases( Operational means having a sqd), Phases like ACM, CAP I can name a thousand other things before they go operational. When you know the plane is capable to kick *** then you put your cards on the table not before that. I don't know if you were born at that time or not when F-20 Tigershark came to karachi on 25th September 1984 and 26th in chaklala for a demo, I was standing right next to someone who said this pilot will kill him self they way he is flying this plane is not ment for such maneuvers. Surly he was right the F-20 crashed in Paris Air show. cause on 28th september two days by monsoon rains in Bangkok The aircraft were parked outside and moisture intruded into its compartment. Tho the company said it was a pilot error. The company was to hasty to get clients and showoff their product ended up as a bad project only one remains in a museum in California.

Thank you for clearing it up. I always kinda had the doubt about JF-17 being inducted into the joint exercise between the PAF and Turkish air force. JF-17 is still in the beginning of its developed phases regarding weapons induction and avonics, how can it be ready for such an event. Bringing them at current stage would only give it a bad name.

 

[EagleEyes]

 

[fatman17]

Shoot your source Why would PAF put JF-17 in an international Exercise.
Right now JF-17 means nothing. When a plane goes operational it goes through several phases( Operational means having a sqd), Phases like ACM, CAP I can name a thousand other things before they go operational. When you know the plane is capable to kick *** then you put your cards on the table not before that. I don't know if you were born at that time or not when F-20 Tigershark came to karachi on 25th September 1984 and 26th in chaklala for a demo, I was standing right next to someone who said this pilot will kill him self they way he is flying this plane is not ment for such maneuvers. Surly he was right the F-20 crashed in Paris Air show. cause on 28th september two days by monsoon rains in Bangkok The aircraft were parked outside and moisture intruded into its compartment. Tho the company said it was a pilot error. The company was to hasty to get clients and showoff their product ended up as a bad project only one remains in a museum in California.

Dear Sir - i agree with your assessment but could there be a case for comparing the JF-17s current capabilities against the F-16s. e.g. daylite interception.!

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan and Turkey organise air force exercises

Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent - Islamabad

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) intends to hold a series of exercises with the Turkish Air Force (TuAF) in Pakistan before the end of April, a PAF spokesman announced on 14 April.

Codenamed 'Indus Viper 2008', the exercises are meant to give pilots from the two air forces experience of close co-ordination through mock combat missions, a senior Pakistani official said.

The armed forces of Pakistan and Turkey have enjoyed close ties for years. Islamabad has supported Ankara's position on Cyprus and the Turkish bid to join the EU.

The joint air exercises will also give Turkish pilots first-hand experience of the operational capabilities of Pakistan's newly inducted JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, a Pakistani government official said.

This would make the TuAF the first air force - other than the PAF and Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force - to see the JF-17 in operation.

A foreign defence official based in Islamabad told Jane's that the PAF's exercises with the TuAF could help promote Pakistan's efforts to sell the JF-17 to other countries in Africa and Asia.

A senior Pakistani official told Jane's earlier in April that at least four African and Asian countries have requested a detailed review of the JF-17 during the IDEAS 2008 defence exports exhibition, which is due to be hosted in Karachi in November.

 

[Muradk]

Pakistan and Turkey organise air force exercises

Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent - Islamabad

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) intends to hold a series of exercises with the Turkish Air Force (TuAF) in Pakistan before the end of April, a PAF spokesman announced on 14 April.

Codenamed 'Indus Viper 2008', the exercises are meant to give pilots from the two air forces experience of close co-ordination through mock combat missions, a senior Pakistani official said.

The armed forces of Pakistan and Turkey have enjoyed close ties for years. Islamabad has supported Ankara's position on Cyprus and the Turkish bid to join the EU.

The joint air exercises will also give Turkish pilots first-hand experience of the operational capabilities of Pakistan's newly inducted JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, a Pakistani government official said.

This would make the TuAF the first air force - other than the PAF and Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force - to see the JF-17 in operation.

A foreign defence official based in Islamabad told Jane's that the PAF's exercises with the TuAF could help promote Pakistan's efforts to sell the JF-17 to other countries in Africa and Asia.

A senior Pakistani official told Jane's earlier in April that at least four African and Asian countries have requested a detailed review of the JF-17 during the IDEAS 2008 defence exports exhibition, which is due to be hosted in Karachi in November.

JF-17 will only perform liked it did on 23rd march and a little more and they will get a chance to see the plane when it lands, That is all. how can they participate in an excercise when 2 of the main pilots are on vacation .

 

[Muradk]

When I visited kamra base they put a show for me and from what I saw, There is no doubt with the right avionics package in it a some more advanced stuff it will be a kick *** plane no-doubt. And yes they might become one of our customers in future.

 

[Ahassan]

inshaallah they will......if turkey buys i think jf-17's will be a good choice as turkey only has enemies like kurdish rebels or grecee....

 

[Quwa]

JF-17 will only perform liked it did on 23rd march and a little more and they will get a chance to see the plane when it lands, That is all. how can they participate in an excercise when 2 of the main pilots are on vacation .

IMO the JF-17 has potential to touch much of the world if marketed properly - especially to specific needs of major AFs like TuAF, Saudi-AF, etc. I think once they get the variant with more payload, range, composite material, 4.5-gen. avionics & AESA radar it will be a serious competitor on the market.

 

[T-Rex]

The Indus Viper started on April 21,2008 and today it is April 26, yet there is no news anywhere as to what has really happened during the exercise, only speculations. It is not even clear whether the PAF's J-17s have already participated. All that is known is that F-16s of the Turkish airforce is taking part. What is the point of so much secrecy when Pakistan intends to market the J-17s ?

 

[Muradk]

The Indus Viper started on April 21,2008 and today it is April 26, yet there is no news anywhere as to what has really happened during the exercise, only speculations. It is not even clear whether the PAF's J-17s have already participated. All that is known is that F-16s of the Turkish airforce is taking part. What is the point of so much secrecy when Pakistan intends to market the J-17s ?

you don't put a uncooked turkey in-front of someone to eat.Hope you understand what I mean.

 

[Blackpearl]

The Indus Viper started on April 21,2008 and today it is April 26, yet there is no news anywhere as to what has really happened during the exercise, only speculations. It is not even clear whether the PAF's J-17s have already participated. All that is known is that F-16s of the Turkish airforce is taking part.

In year 2004, a joint US-Indian Airforce exercise was held in India, went by the name 'Cope India'. Some F-15s of USAF participated in aerial combat against IAF SU-30 MKIs. It was a pure dogfight exercise. USAF F-15s were operating under some constraints, when simulated engagements were happening. It came out that, every time IAF SU-30s were able to 'Kill' the enemy aircraft (F-15s). The outcome of the exercise was a blow to USAF invincibility and provided a great boast to IAF, as IAF employed its own tactics, to counter USAF Aircarft. Both the countries share each Airforce's experience and learn a lot from each other.

Now consider 'Indus Viper', well impressive name for onlookers.
Similar aircraft are particpating, DACT is out, dont consider pitching F-7s against F-16s, our Turkish friend may not like it.

Before that, consider this.
Our Airforce is India specific, designed and equipped to meet India's threat adequately. Our aerial strategy and doctrine revolves around " Survive and fight against heavy Odds". Our training, aerial tactics is based on this.

Turkish Airforce is part of a bigger NATO Airforces. After the cold war is over, presently, NATO is engaged in more peace enforcing missions in troubled region of Europe, Balkans, Kosovo and then in Afghanistan. Now NATO Airforces find themselves in flying and enforcing 'No Fly Zone' Missions. Hot aerial combat , 'against heavy odds', is no more their. NATO forces are more concentrating over combined arms action, close co-ordination between Army- Airforce. The biggest threat to Turkey came from Kurds, so Turkish Airforce may be more bent upon providing Close Air Support to land Forces.

The point is , there is not so much common between the two Airforces, in terms of Aerial strategy and doctrine, then what are we jointly training. Turkish Pilots are here in Pakistan, because, either, PAF pilots were there in Turkey, in near Past, or they will be visiting Turkey, in near future, once our Turkish guests leave. So its a symbolic exercise, boasting warm relations between the two countries.

 

[Quwa]

Looking at the seniority of the officers who came for Indus Viper, it appears to me that this was a light pilot-test for our own Red Flag-type project. Remember the PAF requested TuAF assistance in developing an Anatolian Eagle-like school in Pakistan. Note that the TuAF regularly sends pilots to Konya for the Anatolian exercises, it is very organized and divided into multiple sessions over a given year.

Just remember...Indus Viper can grow into Anatolian Eagle in that PAF would be sending squadrons regularly to train within itself and with foreign forces on a very routine/regular basis. So in one session we might have work with the Turks, in another with the Chinese and then with the Saudis and then b/w North & Southern commands, etc.

In the long-run I wonder if they will even keep holding it in Sargodha, or move Indus Viper to an exclusive base and arena.