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Indradhanush 2015

Some ill-educated people here need to understand one very simple fact that these exercises are not meant to test which air force is better. It does not matter if the score is 12-0 or 12,000-0. These "scores" do not prove IAF is inferior or superior to RAF. The desperate trolls ever eager to praise themselves fail to understand this very primary factor.

Secondly, officers on duty have not said anything about IAF destroying the RAF. It is the media who is feeding up the frenzy because they know there are fools present who believe what they like to believe; facts be damned.
 
Can we please leave the personal insults out. The debate can keep on going.
 
Strange title. What does it means?

It's the name of the joint IAF-RAF air exercises held every 3 to 4 years.

CKry681W8AA6zrO.jpg
 
For God Sake, Why all of the people are bickering over certain situations which are co-decided/planned by both RAF and IAF together..

Firstly, results in favour of IAF should not surprise many. Simple bcz any UK citizen or UK def Enthusiast know that RAF training program is plagued with problems. In the last 5 years the training regime is in shambles and was widely reported in media (google search will help folks). Its not like IAF or PAF whose training regime is inhouse designed, coordinated or followed up meticulously. RAF training regime is OUTSOURCED to a third party. If i recall correctly a report to the UK government stated that EF training program for pilots were found to have deficiencies and are at least running 4-5 years behind schedule.
What does that the mean or imply? Simple.. No doubt EF is a beast but the RAF pilots are not yet in a league to get the best out of this beast yet. This leaves a situation that many airforces be it IAF (or even PAF) can smartly engage in training exercises and come out with a much better result/performance simply bcz a professional in house trained AF who knows its warplane better coupled with an experienced pilot(s) could perform much better any day.

Secondly, no one de-means Eurofighter by any chance.. EF/Rafale are couple of finest birds ever manufactured and the plethora of tech advancement it brings to the battle field is astonishing. In that sense its an awesome bird and a good technological generation above Su30 MKI. Of course MKI is made 15-20 years before EF and MKI still has not got the MLU programs so of course the comparable technologies of time is absent in MKI but what the biggest issue in a MKI is lack of much bigger upgrades like sensor fusion and in ability to reduce its so called "RCS" drastically. In both these sense, MKI at present form may not be very potent platform in a typical well trained and experienced Airforce who engages in BVR combat. Perhaps EW suites can help a bit but still MKI presently is definitely lagging in BVR segment.

What does this imply? at engagement restriction of BVR simulation for offensive/defensive at 25/22 kms means EF has not utilised the potency of BVR combat. oF course this is agreed as part of training modules. A more detailed view can be looked and understood when MKI is upgraded to Super 30 standard (MLU) and RAF training issues are sorted (as pointed out in point 1) and the BVR engagement is done at around 60-75 kms mark at least. Unfortunately since IAF is not part of NATO AFs as well as EF is not bought by India it would be extremely difficult to get such a scenario agreement as both birds and pilots i assume has to be at least at 70%-80% plus unlocked potential (without restriction i mean). This is tough to imagine.

Thirdly and most importantly, Irrespective of whether MKI scored a big scoreline or not, the exercises are simulated conditions... Its good if the pilots fare well and strategies work out.. But real engagements are far far different, hostile and intensives. i do not question the efficacy of EF or Rafale sorties and pounding over the African points.. But a good well trained Airforce can devise strategies with which even a 3rd generation bird can give a good fight in a real battle situation. (not saying it would be a favourable result in favour of legacy fighters) Thus, we all should be proud but we should not be under any illusion that MKI is the very best in the world. No Aircraft is BEST.. Its a well trained Unit which makes the aircraft and its pilots and the entire support team awesome if it can pull through the strategies knowing very well whats best with the bird and whats the restrictions/weakness in the day it requires it the most (birds has to be available to sortie mandatorily)..

My personal take: Since we are yet to see a EF/Rafale (the very best of 4th gen) or F35/F22 or Chinese 5th Gen or PAKFA/T50 (russia and India both) in Sub continental Airforces, at present it makes MKI a formidable platform to reckon with. But come another 20-25 years the changing capabilities of newer technologies integrated into 5th Generation platforms would be challenging for any 4th generation bird especially MKI as the present potency of Super 30 upgrade MLU is relatively unknown. Good thing is the more advanced platforms are costly so we wont see them mass produced just yet. Hence MKI or upgraded MKI will be a good beast for next 25 years.. (in the context that we wont see 350-400 Efs/Rafales operating in a single AF, 5th Gen would be more costly.. again in subcontinent context)

just to add to my point 1 about RAF training nightmares
£3.2bn military pilot training scheme falls six years behind schedule | Politics | The Guardian
Main points
  • A £3.2bn programme to train military pilots through an outsourcing consortium is nearly six years behind schedule,
  • A report by the National Audit Office said the 25-year contract to train aircrew was supposed to be running at full capacity by 2014. Delays have meant that it will not be operating as planned until the end of 2019.
  • The MoD trains crew for each of the armed services, including Wildcat helicopter pilots for the navy, Apache helicopter pilots for the army, and Typhoon fighter pilots for the air force.
  • Ascent, a consortium of the two firms Lockheed Martin and Babcock International, was originally awarded the 25-year contract to train aircrew in 2008. The contract meant that up to 480 pilots and their crew would receive “core training” – including training exercises on how to fly helicopters and jets and use weapon systems.
  • Auditors found that civil servants during the early years of the contract had “significant concerns” about Ascent’s performance. MoD officials were worried by rising costs and delays as well as the quality of the training, the report said, and “the department was concerned that Ascent was showing corporate and individual behaviours that undermined its partnering abilities”.
  • Civil servants struggled to hold Ascent to account, the report said. The MoD has so far paid more than £143m for the training contract, and has only been able to claw back £308,000 in deductions for Ascent’s failure to meet its responsibilities.
  • Delays were in part due to the substantial cuts in the numbers of aircrew undergoing training, which had seen the value of the contract cut from £6.8bn to £3.2bn. The number of pilots expected to be trained has dropped to 250.
  • Philip Dunne, the minister for defence procurement, welcomed the report. “The programme had a difficult start after initial contracts were let under a PFI contract in 2008,” he said. “We are now on a much firmer footing and moving forward to deliver flight training for aircrew, more rapidly and efficiently, with greater flexibility to adapt to new platforms.”
 
Wow, people like you are so stupid and it is a scary thought that you idiots are the majority in India.

What is your qualification, what have you ever done for India? And your feku will remain a feku so only losers like you will follow him. And when did India's flag become your flag? Is India your personal property?

You cowards can only rant in the internet from behind the safety of a computer screen. In real life your heads are always bowed. You make people like me laugh. Study and get a good job instead of wasting your time in the internet. Go home now kid, you are not old enough to debate with me.

Son,

Lets have a show of balls, if you have any. Let us see who you are.

My name is Abhinav Banerjee. Do a google search. You can match the profile pic if you choose to.

I am better educated and prolly have a better and a more meaningful job than you. I am currently part of a team, formulating the media policy for a state in India.

India's flag is my bloody flag, and I'm effing going to stuff the narrow end up your stinking arse if you effing dare false flag again.

Now run away kiddo, else i'mma hunt you down and make you my personal biatch.
 
Last edited:
Ministry of Defence
10-August, 2015 19:59 IST
Participation of IAF in Indo-UK

Bilateral Air Exercise-Indradhanush IV – July 2015

1. The fourth edition of the Indo-UK bilateral air exercise named Indradhanush was held in the UK from 21-31 July 2015. The 190-strong contingent of the IAF left India on 15 July 2015 for the overseas deployment and returned on 04 August 2015.

2. The air elements that took part in the air exercise this time were the Su-30 MKI, IL-78 tankers, C-17 and C-130J transport aircraft from the IAF and the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Voyager tanker, C-17 and C-130J from the RAF. In addition to the aircraft, the Indian Garud commandos participated alongside their British counterparts, the RAF Regiment of the Special Forces.

3. Such exercises are conducted under controlled conditions with mutually agreed weapons performance parameters, with the basic aim of learning from each other’s best practices. Additional advantages that accrue are greater understanding of each other’s general operational philosophy and exposure to a different operating environment. In combat exercises, definite objectives are laid down for each component participating. After the exercise, during debrief, a detailed analysis is carried out to assess the extent of achievement of laid down objectives. There are no classic wins and losses as no weapons are fired as per their actual capability.

4. Mutual exchange of ideas as regards operational philosophy for tactical and strategic missions has provided invaluable learning for both sides. The exercise provided opportunity for the exchange of ideas relating to concept of operations in a dynamic warfare environment. The bonhomie amongst personnel on both sides has been exceptional and in the true spirit of a bilateral exercise. The aircrew of both the Air Forces have performed exceptionally well, demonstrating their high standards of training, operational preparedness, flexibility and adaptability. The RAF had been very forthcoming in meeting all operational, maintenance and administrative requirements of the IAF contingent. Needless to say, the learning value from this interaction has been immense. The IAF looks forward to continue the engagement with RAF in the future as well.
 
You age has to do with everything. When you are on a forum, you represent a nation. When you are writing like a girl on period at age 15, trust me, no one would take you seriously even if you invented a space ship on here that never existed before.

I've already provided you with what I had and that's pretty authentic based on my sources. Additionally, like the gentlemen from India is ALSO telling you again and again, that these were basic combat simulated fights. Nothing too sophisticated and these silly results are not a victory for anyone, whether RAF says they were even, they won all or they lost all. It doesn't matter. If this is too much for you to understand and handle.....may be you shouldn't come on these types of forums as you sound like a little child trying to grow some hair on your chin.

Dude,before lecturing others about their maturity and shit,show some balls to either authenticate your claims with sources or just accept that you pulled those 'scenarios' from your @rse just to satisfy your bloated ego or just because of the immense butt-hurt caused due to a positive news about India.Scumbags like you do not belong here either.
 
Son,

Lets have a show of balls, if you have any. Let us see who you are.

My name is Abhinav Banerjee. Do a google search. You can match the profile pic if you choose to.

I am better educated and prolly have a better and a more meaningful job than you. I am currently part of a team, formulating the media policy for a state in India.

India's flag is my bloody flag, and I'm effing going to stuff the narrow end up your stinking arse if you effing dare false flag again.

Now run away kiddo, else i'mma hunt you down and make you my personal biatch.

What has the world come to? A bengali acting tough and macho. ROFLOL!!! :omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:

No, you are not better educated. You come from a state which is the worst governed and is a vegetable in the Indian union. The only thing that your god forsaken culture knows is strikes and more strikes. That is the result of your ill-educated society so STFU girl.

So you are one of he chamchas who run back and forth in front of politicians?

India's flag is not your blag you bangladeshi. It belongs to every Indian and you cowards should be the last to claim India's flag as your own. The narrow end of the bengali political party stick is already sticking and glowing up your stinking hilsa fish arse so swallow a fish bone and rot in bengal.

And you are a bengali, the most weak and effeminate culture in India. So keep your threats inside your bengali underpants and STFU little biatch.

Seems like the IAF has realized the non-sense it was spewing....without any credible facts.

It was all a media hype but some of the immature Indian posters here do not know the difference between hype and reality.
 
For God Sake, Why all of the people are bickering over certain situations which are co-decided/planned by both RAF and IAF together..

Firstly, results in favour of IAF should not surprise many. Simple bcz any UK citizen or UK def Enthusiast know that RAF training program is plagued with problems. In the last 5 years the training regime is in shambles and was widely reported in media (google search will help folks). Its not like IAF or PAF whose training regime is inhouse designed, coordinated or followed up meticulously. RAF training regime is OUTSOURCED to a third party. If i recall correctly a report to the UK government stated that EF training program for pilots were found to have deficiencies and are at least running 4-5 years behind schedule.
What does that the mean or imply? Simple.. No doubt EF is a beast but the RAF pilots are not yet in a league to get the best out of this beast yet. This leaves a situation that many airforces be it IAF (or even PAF) can smartly engage in training exercises and come out with a much better result/performance simply bcz a professional in house trained AF who knows its warplane better coupled with an experienced pilot(s) could perform much better any day.

Secondly, no one de-means Eurofighter by any chance.. EF/Rafale are couple of finest birds ever manufactured and the plethora of tech advancement it brings to the battle field is astonishing. In that sense its an awesome bird and a good technological generation above Su30 MKI. Of course MKI is made 15-20 years before EF and MKI still has not got the MLU programs so of course the comparable technologies of time is absent in MKI but what the biggest issue in a MKI is lack of much bigger upgrades like sensor fusion and in ability to reduce its so called "RCS" drastically. In both these sense, MKI at present form may not be very potent platform in a typical well trained and experienced Airforce who engages in BVR combat. Perhaps EW suites can help a bit but still MKI presently is definitely lagging in BVR segment.

What does this imply? at engagement restriction of BVR simulation for offensive/defensive at 25/22 kms means EF has not utilised the potency of BVR combat. oF course this is agreed as part of training modules. A more detailed view can be looked and understood when MKI is upgraded to Super 30 standard (MLU) and RAF training issues are sorted (as pointed out in point 1) and the BVR engagement is done at around 60-75 kms mark at least. Unfortunately since IAF is not part of NATO AFs as well as EF is not bought by India it would be extremely difficult to get such a scenario agreement as both birds and pilots i assume has to be at least at 70%-80% plus unlocked potential (without restriction i mean). This is tough to imagine.

Thirdly and most importantly, Irrespective of whether MKI scored a big scoreline or not, the exercises are simulated conditions... Its good if the pilots fare well and strategies work out.. But real engagements are far far different, hostile and intensives. i do not question the efficacy of EF or Rafale sorties and pounding over the African points.. But a good well trained Airforce can devise strategies with which even a 3rd generation bird can give a good fight in a real battle situation. (not saying it would be a favourable result in favour of legacy fighters) Thus, we all should be proud but we should not be under any illusion that MKI is the very best in the world. No Aircraft is BEST.. Its a well trained Unit which makes the aircraft and its pilots and the entire support team awesome if it can pull through the strategies knowing very well whats best with the bird and whats the restrictions/weakness in the day it requires it the most (birds has to be available to sortie mandatorily)..

My personal take: Since we are yet to see a EF/Rafale (the very best of 4th gen) or F35/F22 or Chinese 5th Gen or PAKFA/T50 (russia and India both) in Sub continental Airforces, at present it makes MKI a formidable platform to reckon with. But come another 20-25 years the changing capabilities of newer technologies integrated into 5th Generation platforms would be challenging for any 4th generation bird especially MKI as the present potency of Super 30 upgrade MLU is relatively unknown. Good thing is the more advanced platforms are costly so we wont see them mass produced just yet. Hence MKI or upgraded MKI will be a good beast for next 25 years.. (in the context that we wont see 350-400 Efs/Rafales operating in a single AF, 5th Gen would be more costly.. again in subcontinent context)

just to add to my point 1 about RAF training nightmares
£3.2bn military pilot training scheme falls six years behind schedule | Politics | The Guardian
Main points
  • A £3.2bn programme to train military pilots through an outsourcing consortium is nearly six years behind schedule,
  • A report by the National Audit Office said the 25-year contract to train aircrew was supposed to be running at full capacity by 2014. Delays have meant that it will not be operating as planned until the end of 2019.
  • The MoD trains crew for each of the armed services, including Wildcat helicopter pilots for the navy, Apache helicopter pilots for the army, and Typhoon fighter pilots for the air force.
  • Ascent, a consortium of the two firms Lockheed Martin and Babcock International, was originally awarded the 25-year contract to train aircrew in 2008. The contract meant that up to 480 pilots and their crew would receive “core training” – including training exercises on how to fly helicopters and jets and use weapon systems.
  • Auditors found that civil servants during the early years of the contract had “significant concerns” about Ascent’s performance. MoD officials were worried by rising costs and delays as well as the quality of the training, the report said, and “the department was concerned that Ascent was showing corporate and individual behaviours that undermined its partnering abilities”.
  • Civil servants struggled to hold Ascent to account, the report said. The MoD has so far paid more than £143m for the training contract, and has only been able to claw back £308,000 in deductions for Ascent’s failure to meet its responsibilities.
  • Delays were in part due to the substantial cuts in the numbers of aircrew undergoing training, which had seen the value of the contract cut from £6.8bn to £3.2bn. The number of pilots expected to be trained has dropped to 250.
  • Philip Dunne, the minister for defence procurement, welcomed the report. “The programme had a difficult start after initial contracts were let under a PFI contract in 2008,” he said. “We are now on a much firmer footing and moving forward to deliver flight training for aircrew, more rapidly and efficiently, with greater flexibility to adapt to new platforms.”

Very detailed explanation, thanks.
 
.then why the Indian media hype?????
Because they are idiots.. They can make a mountain out of mole.. A sane person would ignore 95 % of their broadcasts... Reliability is what they lack... In short it is like this..
BfC7Wp7CAAAT5RT.jpg
 

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