Indonesia to buy 24 refurbished US F-16 fighters

[golmaal]

@tv Comparing aircraft is not like picking up two vegetables and just checking which is better. There are many complex sub-systems, in some areas one aircraft might be better than another, while still being inferior in many other areas.

Like the MiG-25, JF-17 is vastly superior in many areas, JF-17 is a much more manouverable aircraft, it'a avionics are much more advanced, as well as it's electronic-warfare, ECM, RWR. It also carries missiles that are generations ahead of MiG-25's weapons suite. MiG-25 lacks the modern ECM/Jamming capabilities to prevent a modern jamming-resistant BVR missile like JF-17's SD-10B.

That's true we can't compare last generation plane with new gen.. Mig 25 was intent to use 70s & 80s not in 21st Century.
But this thread some of your country men comparing JF17 with F16...Man we all know the battle capacity of F16 which we have seen in numerous battles and we also know if Pak AF has the money to afford this plane they surely place an order for F16s not for JF17.. correct me if I am wrong (pls put a part indigenous mfg and all stuff's)

All other points you have said I am agreeing with that..

 

[tvsram1992]

@tv Comparing aircraft is not like picking up two vegetables and just checking which is better. There are many complex sub-systems, in some areas one aircraft might be better than another, while still being inferior in many other areas.

Like the MiG-25, JF-17 is vastly superior in many areas, JF-17 is a much more manouverable aircraft, it'a avionics are much more advanced, as well as it's electronic-warfare, ECM, RWR. It also carries missiles that are generations ahead of MiG-25's weapons suite. MiG-25 lacks the modern ECM/Jamming capabilities to prevent a modern jamming-resistant BVR missile like JF-17's SD-10B.

But finally Jf-17 cannot shoot a Mig25
Prove me wrong

In May 1997, an Indian Air Force Mikoyan MiG-25RB reconnaissance aircraft created a furor when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The MiG-25 broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public. The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier was deliberate to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the MiG-25's cruising height (up to 74,000 feet). India denied the incident but Pakistan's Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near the capital, Islamabad

 

[Qasibr]

But finally Jf-17 cannot shoot a Mig25
Prove me wrong

I have no interest in proving you wrong. Facts are facts and speak for themselves, whether you can face them or not.

It is a fact that JF-17 is being integrated with China's latest frontline weapons suite, everything from BVR air-to-air missiles, heat-seeking missiles, anti-ship missiles. China is making tremendous investments in all these areas and it seems like they'll surpass everyone except the US pretty soon. Even Russians admit the Chinese have exceeded them in many areas now(and China's vaunted Su-30 MKI uses Russian-origin weapons).

It's a fact that China's primary BVR missile, the SD-10B, is a much more recent and modern development than Russia's R-77 missile, and it's also a fact that Russia faces huge problems in sustained funding, and China manages to make tremendous investments and can sustain it.

In BVR engagement scenarios alone, JF-17 can achieve lock-on first, SD-10B has sophisticated jamming-resistant electronics, making use of the latest breakthroughs in this area. All Indian fanboys make noise about is, that the aircraft uses less composite materials than some Indian aircraft. That composite does no good if it's shot-down and rusting like a pile of compost.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

JFT g-limit 8.5g/-3g
LCA g-limit 9g/-3.5g

If u don't know about delta wing. better don't talk non-sense. what eva you calling about bharat rakshak . We do feeling same about ... ok. be quite don't show your bad attitude to every body.

ohh my ... when did this happen . we could do a lil better in jf-17 to match LCA, if you had told us before.

 

[tvsram1992]

I have no interest in proving you wrong. Facts are facts and speak for themselves, whether you can face them or not.

It is a fact that JF-17 is being integrated with China's latest frontline weapons suite, everything from BVR air-to-air missiles, heat-seeking missiles, anti-ship missiles. China is making tremendous investments in all these areas and it seems like they'll surpass everyone except the US pretty soon. Even Russians admit the Chinese have exceeded them in many areas now(and China's vaunted Su-30 MKI uses Russian-origin weapons).

It's a fact that China's primary BVR missile, the SD-10B, is a much more recent and modern development than Russia's R-77 missile, and it's also a fact that Russia faces huge problems in sustained funding, and China manages to make tremendous investments and can sustain it.

In BVR engagement scenarios alone, JF-17 can achieve lock-on first, SD-10B has sophisticated jamming-resistant electronics, making use of the latest breakthroughs in this area. All Indian fanboys make noise about is, that the aircraft uses less composite materials than some Indian aircraft. That composite does no good if it's shot-down and rusting like a pile of compost.

Thats what im trying to say , again you came to starting .

Decades of experience of US and USSR is waste infront of China .
Recently developed doesnt mean that its efficient .
Come on grow up .

 

[Qasibr]

Sure, you keep believing that if it makes you happy. It is a fact that China has surpassed the Russians in many many areas, and even the Russians admit that they're behind China. Here's a few facts that might be difficult to swallow:

This transfer of technological know-how, plus some enormous investments by the Chinese military into its state-owned industries (what more than one Russian has referred to as “uncontrolled and rampant modernisation”) has produced a defence electronics industry that far outstrips the size and capacity of that which existed in Russia when Chinese industry first began their cooperation with Moscow in the early 1990s.

Today the former students (the Chinese) have become the masters. Chinese industry now has the ability to produce components that the Russian electronics industry (after almost two decades of no investment by their government) is no longer capable of either designing or manufacturing. The initial failure rates on the production of transmit/receive (T/R) modules for the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars being designed for the Mikoyan MiG-35 and the Sukhoi T-50/PAK-FA 5th-generation fighter, for example, were so high that it would have bankrupted any western firm involved in a similar programme.

Not surprisingly, this year’s CIDEX show saw groups of Russian specialists going through the halls and looking for components that they could source out of China to be utilised in Russian-designed weapon systems. Russian specialists will point out that they are now at a huge disadvantage to the Chinese in two very significant respects.

One is that the commitment by the central government in resources to the defence electronics sector is both sustained and serious. “They can take a field where there is nothing but flat land and wild grass,” said one Russian company representative, “and the next thing you know there is a full-blown factory or design centre there turning out a world-class product.”

Report from the 2010 Chinese Defense Electronics Exhibition (CIDEX): Growing Industry – Advancing Technology

Ofcourse, you know much more than the Russians about Russia's capabilities... you are "tvsram". According to the Russians though, China has exceeded them in these pretty important areas. You should spend some time reading about SD-10B, it is China's latest frontline BVR weapon, and JF-17's BVR engagement missile of choice. See what western sources like Janes say about it, and how it compares to your dated R-77s.

 

[oct605032048]

Do they have a discount? You know its black Friday.

 

[tvsram1992]

Sure, you keep believing that if it makes you happy. It is a fact that China has surpassed the Russians in many many areas, and even the Russians admit that they're behind China. Here's a few facts that might be difficult to swallow:

Report from the 2010 Chinese Defense Electronics Exhibition (CIDEX): Growing Industry – Advancing Technology

Ofcourse, you know much more than the Russians about Russia's capabilities... you are "tvsram". According to the Russians though, China has exceeded them in these pretty important areas. You should spend some time reading about SD-10B, it is China's latest frontline BVR weapon, and JF-17's BVR engagement missile of choice. See what western sources like Janes say about it, and how it compares to your dated R-77s.

Yes we know much about Russian systems since we used them in war and we saw how far you ran by so called Cheap Russian weapons . You have only SD-10 Russia has made those things decades ago . And if you dont know difference b/w recent and efficient go to school . I can say astra is much better if i go in your way and you didnt reply me how jf-17 can beat mig25 at high altitudes and you have energy to type the above shitty things.
So if Russians admit that you will nod your heads
please brief me many many areas

 

[BLUE_ Pheonix]

china exceeding russia? r u kidding me? its like meri hi billi muhjse hi miaoo

 

[Qasibr]

Yes we know much about Russian systems since we used them in war and we saw how far you ran by so called Cheap Russian weapons . You have only SD-10 Russia has made those things decades ago . And if you dont know difference b/w recent and efficient go to school . I can say astra is much better if i go in your way and you didnt reply me how jf-17 can beat mig25 at high altitudes and you have energy to type the above shitty things.
So if Russians admit that you will nod your heads
please brief me many many areas

Only an idiot would claim the Indians know more than the Russians, about RUSSIAN weapons. I do not think you are claiming that, because that would be a rather silly thing to claim.

With Russians themselves saying that the Chinese have progressed and advanced ahead of the Russians in many areas, your opinion as an Indian fanboy really doesn't matter. I posted quotes from Russian experts and specialists. You post no facts or figures, nothing to support your empty claims.

As for the MiG-25. MiG-25's maximum speed is Mach 2.8, and at top-speeds it experiences permanent engine damage. SD-10A's close-in speed is known to be >Mach 4. SD-10B, which Pakistan uses, is liable to be even greater, the actual speed is classified. So with a little knowledge you can answer your question yourself. MiG-25 cannot outrun any of the modern air-to-air missiles using it's speed or altitude in any of these scenarios, because modern missiles are much much faster than older ones.

 

[Zabaniyah]

I think tvsram1992 forgot the fact that the MiG-25 is no longer in IAF service

 

[tvsram1992]

Only an idiot would claim the Indians know more than the Russians, about RUSSIAN weapons. I do not think you are claiming that, because that would be a rather silly thing to claim.

With Russians themselves saying that the Chinese have progressed and advanced ahead of the Russians in many areas, your opinion as an Indian fanboy really doesn't matter. I posted quotes from Russian experts and specialists. You post no facts or figures, nothing to support your empty claims.

As for the MiG-25. MiG-25's maximum speed is Mach 2.8, and at top-speeds it experiences permanent engine damage. SD-10A's close-in speed is known to be >Mach 4. SD-10B, which Pakistan uses, is liable to be even greater, the actual speed is classified. So with a little knowledge you can answer your question yourself. MiG-25 cannot outrun any of the modern air-to-air missiles using it's speed or altitude in any of these scenarios, because modern missiles are much much faster than older ones.

Only speed doesnt make any sense .
Its the altitude where even modern missiles cannot reach and hit target effectively .
So if i post a link against pakistan from pakistani source will you believe that?
No Offense seriously, just as an example .

 

[tvsram1992]

I think tvsram1992 forgot the fact that the MiG-25 is no longer in IAF service

Yes i mean to say they cant even shoot a retired fighter.
I dont want to drag this further as it feeds troll....
Coming to the point we have satellites as alternatives of Mig25
It was fastest aircraft with top speed of Mach 3+
@Qasibr
you are a good editor

MiG-25's maximum speed is Mach 2.8, and at top-speeds it experiences permanent engine damage.

has a top speed of Mach 2.83+ (as high as Mach 3.2, but at risk of significant damage to the engines), and features a powerful radar and four air-to-air missiles.

and u need to agree that we know more about mki than Russians of course its they who taught us .
I think you are not a fool to ask me how .

 

[Zabaniyah]

Yes i mean to say they cant even shoot a retired fighter.

Then why bring in a bird that had been retired?

I dont want to drag this further as it feeds troll....

And that's exactly what you are doing by bring a retired bird into the discussion.

Coming to the point we have satellites as alternatives of Mig25
It was fastest aircraft with top speed of Mach 3+

And that explains your knowledge in the aerospace matters

 

[tvsram1992]

Then why bring in a bird that had been retired?



And that's exactly what you are doing by bring a retired bird into the discussion.

dude i would love to suggest you to see all the posts and how it started .
Mig25 is still in active service with Indian allies . Happy

And that explains your knowledge in the aerospace matters

In military manned aircraft
Mig25 is the fastest armed aircraft
fine?