Indonesia picks the F-15EX to push back on China

[jhungary]

Ah yes them pesky naval landing if the Russian invasion was bad the Chinese invasion would be hilarious.

Indonesia’s Purchase Of F-15EX Fighters Is A Breakthrough For Boeing And The Biden Administration

The deal has positive geopolitical and industrial-base implications for Washington.

www.forbes.com

Yeah, the think tank I work with had also ran a Chinese - Taiwan scenario, and we didn't last more than 60 days, and you are talking about several Staff Grade and Company Grade (I was one of them) officer with actual combat experience and we still can't simulate a win, it would be funny to watch how the Chinese going to tackle this.

 

[antonius123]

And you can't read or what?

View attachment 950733

This is the ONI picture that your article use, can you kindly read back to me what is the word I have circled it out for you?

On the other hand, if you don't know the difference between commercial and military ship then there aren't really nothing we can talk about. Moreover, how do you get enough navy sailor to staff the extra ship? You can't just pull sailor off the street and expect them to know how to use and operate all the weapon system and subsystem. A typical shipborne sailor have between 18-40 months on the job training, how you are going to crew those ship that you build?

And what's going to happen when US, Australia and Japan embargo China? I don't know Australia is the primary supplier to China on High Grade Iron ore, coal, bauxite, and Japan is the primary supplier of IC and silicone product to China, and US in high grade Petroleum product tell me what can China build if Aluminium, Iron, Steel, Silicon is cut off? Well, I guess you can always build your ship with wood.

I indeed overlook the word "commercial" there, my bad; but you obviously are poor of logic dont you?

First, this 200:1 ratio is applied both for China:US, therefore this ratio is applied for warship production also, because the warship can be built in commercial Shipyart too. Do not ever think that 200 is including commercial for China while 1 is only warship for US, it will become irrational ratio/comparison, LOL. So yes China can produce military ship 200 times as many as US can now, period.

And even if you dwindle the ratio from 200:1 to 20:1, still China will produce more ships than US.

Second, the temporary shortage of sailor will be applied both for China and US likewise because both will loose a lot of warship and experience navy sailors.... so do not use error logic again saying only China will struggle while US wont and dont imagine that the new sailors will be required within a month, because the warships production to operation will take years, so assuming the speed of training will be the same, at the end China still can produce more navy sailors than US.

China still import iron ore from Australia, but if Australia embargo China can shift the import source to Brazil etc, not to mention China's own deposit that she prepare to anticipate this kind of war.

 

[jhungary]

I overlook the word "commercial" there, but you obviously are poor of logic dont you?

First, this 200:1 ratio is applied both for China:US, therefore this ratio is applied for warship production. Do not ever think that 200 is including commercial for China while 1 is only warship for US, it will become irrational ratio/comparison, LOL. So China can produce military ship 200 times as many as US can now, period.

Second, the temporary shortage of sailor will be applied both for China and US likewise because both will loose a lot of warship and experience navy sailors.... so do not use error logic again saying only China will struggle while US wont and dont imagine that the new sailors will be required within a month, because the warships production to operation will take years, so assuming the speed of training will be the same, at the end China still can produce more navy sailors than US.

China still import iron ore from Australia, but if Australia embargo China can shift the import source to Brazil etc, not to mention China's own deposit that she prepare to anticipate this kind of war.

First that is about tonnage.

Second, building a commerical ship is not the same as building a combat ship. Again, if China is 200 times the building capcity the US, then why they are still lacking on ALL MAJOR surface combatant category?

And finally, what make you think Brazil will sell you Iron Ore, or even what make you think Brazil can mine enough Iron ore to compensate the Australian Embargo, and finally what make you think even if Brazil can sell and can surge that capability, think US and Australia which was embargoing China will not intercept Brazilian ship in the Pacific before it reaches China?

And you are free to believe you can make a recovery faster than the US, I have no opinion on that.

 

[antonius123]

First that is about tonnage.

Second, building a commerical ship is not the same as building a combat ship. Again, if China is 200 times the building capcity the US, then why they are still lacking on ALL MAJOR surface combatant category?

And finally, what make you think Brazil will sell you Iron Ore, or even what make you think Brazil can mine enough Iron ore to compensate the Australian Embargo, and finally what make you think even if Brazil can sell and can surge that capability, think US and Australia which was embargoing China will not intercept Brazilian ship in the Pacific before it reaches China?

And you are free to believe you can make a recovery faster than the US, I have no opinion on that.

Which major surface combatant that China lack according to you? Now China can make all of warship including supercarrier, except the nuclear powered carrier. Even if China currently lack some type of warship/carrier, but the capability is there; commercial/non commercial shipyart is not issue.

Currently China has iron ore stock up to 135 million tons. From there she can produce thousands warship in spite of US embargo. Source:

China's 2023 iron ore output seen higher as new projects come online: analyst

China's iron ore output in 2023 is expected to rise 3.5% from the previous year to 238 million mt as miners commission new production capacity, an analyst with investment bank Orient Securities said N

www.spglobal.com

No it is not about belief, it is about logic that China can make a recovery faster! the ratio speak itself, thats why ONI send this concern.

 

[jhungary]

Which major surface combatant that China lack according to you? Now China can make all of warship including supercarrier, except the nuclear powered carrier. Even if China currently lack some type of warship/carrier, but the capability is there; commercial/non commercial shipyart is not issue.

Currently China has iron ore stock up to 135 million tons. From there she can produce thousands warship in spite of US embargo. Source:

China's 2023 iron ore output seen higher as new projects come online: analyst

China's iron ore output in 2023 is expected to rise 3.5% from the previous year to 238 million mt as miners commission new production capacity, an analyst with investment bank Orient Securities said N

www.spglobal.com

No it is not about belief, it is about logic that China can make a recovery faster! the ratio speak itself, thats why ONI send this concern.

How many of this

Do the Chinese have? 3; How many of these the US has? 11

How many of this

The Chinese have? 8 How many of these the American have? 15

And how many of this

The Chinese have? 51 howmany of these the American have? 72 Arleight Burke Class and 3 Zumwalt Class

And how many of this

the Chinese has? 4 and How many of these the US has? 10

And how many of this

the Chinese has? 9 How many of these the US has? 15

The only thing the Chinese is ahead with US in number on capital ship is Frigate, because US don't have one.

You tell me what else is considered "major surface combatant"?

 

[antonius123]

How many of this

View attachment 950885

Do the Chinese have? 3; How many of these the US has? 11

How many of this

View attachment 950886

The Chinese have? 8 How many of these the American have? 15

And how many of this

View attachment 950887 The Chinese have? 51 howmany of these the American have? 72 Arleight Burke Class and 3 Zumwalt Class

And how many of this

View attachment 950888

the Chinese has? 4 and How many of these the US has? 10

And how many of this

View attachment 950890the Chinese has? 9 How many of these the US has? 15

The only thing the Chinese is ahead with US in number on capital ship is Frigate, because US don't have one.

You tell me what else is considered "major surface combatant"?

There are 2 things you have to understand and still miss the point:

1. I am talking about the future when China and US loose so many warship, not current warship inventory.

2. China warship inventory doesn't need to follow US Navy, both have different doctrines in naval warfare. Regarding war in west pacific, US will depend on carriers for projection, China will depend on combination of Anti Access missile (AShBM), H-6 with LARSM, submarines, destroyers and Fregat. This is so called asymmetric warfare.

Currently USN win on tonnage while China win on number of warships, but in the future the situation will change due to China's capability to produce warship more than US can do with ratio around 200:1 (or 20:1 if you want )

 

[jhungary]

There are 2 things you have to understand and still miss the point:

1. I am talking about the future when China and US loose so many warship, not current warship inventory.

2. China warship inventory doesn't need to follow US Navy, both have different doctrines in naval warfare. Regarding war in west pacific, US will depend on carriers for projection, China will depend on combination of Anti Access missile (AShBM), H-6 with LARSM, submarines, destroyers and Fregat. This is so called asymmetric warfare.

Currently USN win on tonnage while China win on number of warships, but in the future the situation will change due to China's capability to produce warship more than US can do with ratio around 200:1 (or 20:1 if you want )

And you are thinking only China can build ship the US can't.

And you were talking about capability NOW, not 20 years from now.

 

[antonius123]

And you are thinking only China can build ship the US can't.

And you were talking about capability NOW, not 20 years from now.

It is not about can't. It is about 200:1

It is ALREADY now for the ratio and the capability to produce warship.

 

[jhungary]

It is not about can't. It is about 200:1

It is now for the ratio and the capability to produce warship.

again 200 to 1 is in general not just miltiary capability, as I said before, if it was 200 to 1 in term of military, then there are no way China still lacking behind US with major surface combatant.

 

[antonius123]

again 200 to 1 is in general not just miltiary capability, as I said before, if it was 200 to 1 in term of military, then there are no way China still lacking behind US with major surface combatant.

So you think commercial shipyard cannot be used to build warship?

Are you laughing on ONI statement/concern regarding China:US ratio 200:1?

If so, suggest the warship production ratio China:US to your knowledge with reference.

 

[retaxis]

And you are thinking only China can build ship the US can't.

And you were talking about capability NOW, not 20 years from now.

Yeah in decades to come USA is going to be South Africa demographically and whites will be small minority with hundreds of millions of blacks/browns. They gonna have much bigger problems than chhhyyynnnaaaaa

 

[jhungary]

Yeah in decades to come USA is going to be South Africa demographically and whites will be small minority with hundreds of millions of blacks/browns. They gonna have much bigger problems than chhhyyynnnaaaaa

Have you actually seen the rate that Chinese Women marrying Black Mamba? You aren't that far behind too

 

[sinait]

Not the first time the US severely overestimated their enemy's capability.

Also Chinese war capabilities aside if the War do start with Taiwan. This will be the first war China fight since Vietnam & they got humiliated by them. I'm not going to bet on them winning the war that's for sure.

Vietnam humiliate China by giving them "major cultural landmarks, including the Ai Nam gate and the Ban Gioc waterfall. "
What a pleasant humiliation that China got.
You are oozing so much hate for China, you cannot think logically.

China rift opens in Vietnam - Viet Tan (EN)

January 14, 2009 Asia Times Online Negotiating teams from Vietnam and China recently announced a final agreement for demarcating the two countries’ long-contested 1,350-kilometer land border. While the deal seemed to have resolved one simmering dispute between the nations, it has deepened rifts...

viettan.org

"
To date, neither Hanoi nor Beijing has disclosed the exact details of the border agreement or a new official map. In a single interview with state media, a Vietnamese deputy foreign minister responsible for the negotiations downplayed Vietnam’s loss of major cultural landmarks, including the Ai Nam gate and the Ban Gioc waterfall.

He rejected accusations on blogs and overseas websites that his government ceded territory by arguing that the government managed to keep most of the Tuc Lam River bank - despite the fact that according to historical maps the entire area had once belonged to Vietnam. "
.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Vietnam humiliate China by giving them "major cultural landmarks, including the Ai Nam gate and the Ban Gioc waterfall. "
What a pleasant humiliation that China got.
You are oozing so much hate for China, you cannot think logically.

China rift opens in Vietnam - Viet Tan (EN)

January 14, 2009 Asia Times Online Negotiating teams from Vietnam and China recently announced a final agreement for demarcating the two countries’ long-contested 1,350-kilometer land border. While the deal seemed to have resolved one simmering dispute between the nations, it has deepened rifts...

viettan.org

"
To date, neither Hanoi nor Beijing has disclosed the exact details of the border agreement or a new official map. In a single interview with state media, a Vietnamese deputy foreign minister responsible for the negotiations downplayed Vietnam’s loss of major cultural landmarks, including the Ai Nam gate and the Ban Gioc waterfall.

He rejected accusations on blogs and overseas websites that his government ceded territory by arguing that the government managed to keep most of the Tuc Lam River bank - despite the fact that according to historical maps the entire area had once belonged to Vietnam. "
.

How many chinese got killed to get that landmarks you reckon?

 

[jhungary]

So you think commercial shipyard cannot be used to build warship?

Are you laughing on ONI statement/concern regarding China:US ratio 200:1?

If so, suggest the warship production ratio China:US to your knowledge with reference.

You do know even grade of steel is different when you build a commercial ship and a warship.

And you think China will open their national secret to build warship to any public shipyard?? Well, one thing come to mind

"SPY PARADISE"

And vetting a million plus worker is gonna be fun......

In fact, how much you actually know about building warships or even building ship in general?