Indonesia Leaders : We Stand With The People of Palestine

[antonius123]

@antonius123 this debate isn't going anywhere with same things you have been repeating since the first post.

You need to stop deflecting and answer my question first. What is you religion? Are you Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Jew, Atheist or Satanist? its just a simple question.

LOL. It is you that keep denying tons of fact & evidence.

I am the one who bring facts, and repeating fact that you keep dnying.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

LOL. It is you that keep denying tons of fact & evidence.

I am the one who bring facts, and repeating fact that you keep dnying.

you are avoiding my question again...for the fifth time, what is your religion? are you ashamed of your religion for some reason?

 

[antonius123]

you are avoiding my question again...for the fifth time, what is your religion? are you ashamed of your religion for some reason?

As I've told you many times: my religion is not important in this discussion, judging from my religion just will make you become more subjective in see things and bias. I did not judge your argument based on your religion either, what I judge is fact and your logic. So why dont you just focus on the object of discussion, except you have lost argument. Actually this kind of question can be categorized as "ad hominem".

 

[Falcon29]

Hamas' Human Shield Tactic as Reported by Foreign Journalists

Hamas' Human Shield Tactic as Reported by Foreign Journalists - UN Watch

Hamas’ Human Shield Tactic as Reported by Foreign Journalists 1. The Gaza correspondent of Canada’s Globe and Mail, Patrick Martin, wrote in his article from 20 July: “The presence of militant fighters in Shejaia became clear Sunday afternoon when, under the cover of a humanitarian truce...

unwatch.org

@Respect4Respect01 @tower9 @Globenim @UKBengali @Naofumi @Falcon29 @mike2000 is back @retaxis @Whizzack @Indos @Lego Jangkar @Reashot Xigwin

This is a pro-Israel blog, no relation with UN. It is from 2014 conflict, look and read tweets, where do you see anything about human shields or use of civilian facilities? No such thing. Only tweets by few pro-Israel journalists allowed into Gaza, no one is taking their word for anything. They are obligated by their superiors to produce anti-Hamas content.

Do you think we are stupid to believe to some pro-Israel American journalist about Hamas gunmen wearing female thobes? When they are doing cross border operation into Israeli military base in broad daylight in full military uniform/gear?:

 

[Falcon29]

As I've told you many times: my religion is not important in this discussion, judging from my religion just will make you become more subjective in see things and bias. I did not judge your argument based on your religion either, what I judge is fact and your logic. So why dont you just focus on the object of discussion, except you have lost argument. Actually this kind of question can be categorized as "ad hominem".

No, he did not lose any argument. You cannot produce one proof of Hamas using any civilian facility or human shields in recent conflict. You consider whole of Gaza as civilian facility, and any Hamas defensive measures as 'war crimes'. If this is your line thinking, than IDF is using civilian facilities all of Israel and under Tel Aviv skyscrapers to conduct their operations and is using Israeli human shields to defend these facilities. And you consider as anyone who controls airspace to be exonerated from ability to commit war crimes which is foolish take.

The reason for massive civilian casualties in Israeli strikes is because Israel employs form of collective punishment by targeting homes of families of any Hamas members. To punish them for having family members who engage in defending Palestinians. Sometimes they seek to destroy their property, sometimes they seek to kill whole family as form of collective punishment. And this is well known in Gaza and to everyone. Vast majority of strikes on Gaza target specific homes of specific Hamas members for collective punishment reasons. Real human rights organizations, unlike your pro-Israel blogs, confirm this in every conflict:

In the single deadliest attack documented in the report, 36 members of four families including 18 children were killed when the three-storey al-Dali building, was struck. Israel has not announced why the building was targeted, but Amnesty International has identified possible military targets within the building.

The second deadliest attack appears to have targeted a member of the al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas’ armed wing, who was outside the Abu Jame’ family home. The house was completely levelled killing 25 civilians including 19 children. Regardless of the intended targets, both of these attacks constitute grossly disproportionate attacks and under international law, they should have been cancelled or postponed as soon as it was evident that so many civilians were present in the house.

Israeli officials have failed to give any justification for carrying out these attacks. In some of the cases in this report Amnesty International has not been able to identify any possible military target. In those cases it appears that the attacks directly and deliberately targeted civilians or civilian objects, which would constitute war crimes.

...
...

Israeli forces displayed ‘callous indifference’ in deadly attacks on family homes in Gaza

www.amnesty.org

You cannot make a residential home a military target when there is no ground combat just because home belongs to a soldier or his family. I know you would be crying here and accusing Hamas of committing war crimes if they targeted homes of specific IDF soldiers with ballistic missiles and wiped out the whole family of IDF soldier just because it his permanent residence. Or because he had some helmet gear and few grenades in his room. Does not make it military target.

 

[antonius123]

This is a pro-Israel blog, no relation with UN. It is from 2014 conflict, look and read tweets, where do you see anything about human shields or use of civilian facilities? No such thing. Only tweets by few pro-Israel journalists allowed into Gaza, no one is taking their word for anything. They are obligated by their superiors to produce anti-Hamas content.

LOL you are so funny. All of party including UN that is not supporting/justify all Hamas action - you accuse as pro Israel

No it is not pro Israel blog, stop being denial and delusional.

United Nations Watch is a non-governmental organization based in Geneva, Switzerland, whose mandate is to monitor the performance of the United Nations by the yardstick of its own Charter.

United Nations Watch was established in 1993 by legendary civil rights activist Morris B. Abram, the former U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations in Geneva.

Mission & History - UN Watch

United Nations Watch is a Swiss non-governmental organization, established under Art. 30 of the Swiss Civil Code, whose mandate is to monitor the performance of the United Nations by the yardstick of its own Charter. Based in Geneva, United Nations Watch was established in 1993 by legendary...

unwatch.org

 

[Falcon29]

LOL you are so funny. All of party including UN that is not supporting/justify all Hamas action - you accuse as pro Israel

Buddy, no one cares if you or anyone else support Hamas or not. Does not mean your unsubstaintied claims will be taken seriously by us. Even IDF chief attests to courage of these fighters that you trying to make out to be as scared girls:

“We must be honest and say that we fought against brave men,” Gantz said during a discussion with IDF soldiers, Channel 2 News reported.

Hamas fighters ‘courageous,’ IDF chief says

Benny Gantz asserts that combatants in Gaza displayed bravery during summer's 50-day conflict

www.timesofisrael.com

No it is not pro Israel blog, stop being denial and delusional.

It absolutely is you delusional guy, LOL:

Founding

UN Watch was founded in 1993 under the chairmanship of Morris B. Abram. Abram served as the Chairman of the United Negro College Fund and President of Brandeis University. Abram was active in community affairs as President of the American Jewish Committee (1963–1968); Chairman of the National Coalition Supporting Soviet Jewry (1983–1988); and Chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations (1986–1989).[4]

Abram supported the UN as an institution. In 1999, Abram delivered a speech to the U.S. Congress on the subject of the treatment of Israel by the United Nations in which he said "UN Watch categorically supports the UN as an indispensable institution. The US should pay its past dues to the UN as a matter of national honor and in recognition of the UN's importance. In spite of the UN's flaws, it is inconceivable that the US withhold support from the only truly global organization in such an interdependent world."[13][14]

After Abram died in 2000, David A. Harris, Executive Director of the American Jewish Committee, was elected Chairman of UN Watch.[15]

UN Watch - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I am familiar with this blog long before you even joined this forum. You are embarrassing yourself.

 

[antonius123]

No, he did not lose any argument. You cannot produce one proof of Hamas using any civilian facility or human shields in recent conflict. You consider whole of Gaza as civilian facility, and any Hamas defensive measures as 'war crimes'. If this is your line thinking, than IDF is using civilian facilities all of Israel and under Tel Aviv skyscrapers to conduct their operations and is using Israeli human shields to defend these facilities. And you consider as anyone who controls airspace to be exonerated from ability to commit war crimes which is foolish take.

The reason for massive civilian casualties in Israeli strikes is because Israel employs form of collective punishment by targeting homes of families of any Hamas members. To punish them for having family members who engage in defending Palestinians. Sometimes they seek to destroy their property, sometimes they seek to kill whole family as form of collective punishment. And this is well known in Gaza and to everyone. Vast majority of strikes on Gaza target specific homes of specific Hamas members for collective punishment reasons. Real human rights organizations, unlike your pro-Israel blogs, confirm this in every conflict:

You are talking about yourself.

It is you who can't bring evidence to support any of your accusation.

I bring tons of evidence and you deny them all merely because not supporting your belief
Your denial wont make fact become lie, unless you can bring stronger evidence saying opposite.

You cannot make a residential home a military target when there is no ground combat just because home belongs to a soldier or his family. I know you would be crying here and accusing Hamas of committing war crimes if they targeted homes of specific IDF soldiers with ballistic missiles and wiped out the whole family of IDF soldier just because it his permanent residence. Or because he had some helmet gear and few grenades in his room. Does not make it military target.

Please, read the UN Report I gave you above.

The rocket is not just launched from the home of the soldier as you said above, it is launched from college, children playground, refugee camp, and hotel.

Evidence of this criminal strategy is mounting and the examples are too numerous to count. Hamas has routinely fired from schools, playgrounds and hotels, as described below:​

• On 8 July, a rocket was fired from within the El’ Azhar Islamic College
  • On 14 July, an M-75 rocket was launched from a children’s playground located in the neighbourhood of Shuj a’iya
  • On 1 August, a rocket was fired from within the Al-Shati refugee camp, near the Al Mashtal hotel, where many journalists were staying

​

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-182027/[/ICODE]

 

[Falcon29]

https://alqassam.ps/arabic/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%88/674/%D8%A7%D8%B4%D8%AA%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%82%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AE%D8%A7%D8%B5%D8%A9-%D8%B4%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AA-%D8%AD%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88%D9%86

@antonius123

I bet this isn't military uniform, either, clown? LOL

You are talking about yourself.

It is you who can't bring evidence to support any of your accusation.

I bring tons of evidence and you deny them all merely because not supporting your belief
Your denial wont make fact become lie, unless you can bring stronger evidence saying opposite.

You brought nothing, fool.

Please, read the UN Report I gave you above.

The rocket is not just launched from the home of the soldier as you said above, it is launched from college, children playground, refugee camp, and hotel.

​

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-182027/[/ICODE]

Baseless accusations from 2014 war, not recent confrontation. And of course like liar you are, you took it from pro-Israel blog. Your link to UN doesn't even work.

 

[antonius123]

Buddy, no one cares if you or anyone else support Hamas or not. Does not mean your unsubstaintied claims will be taken seriously by us. Even IDF chief attests to courage of these fighters that you trying to make out to be as scared girls:

“We must be honest and say that we fought against brave men,” Gantz said during a discussion with IDF soldiers, Channel 2 News reported.

Hamas fighters ‘courageous,’ IDF chief says

Benny Gantz asserts that combatants in Gaza displayed bravery during summer's 50-day conflict

www.timesofisrael.com

It absolutely is you delusional guy, LOL:



I am familiar with this blog long before you even joined this forum. You are embarrassing yourself.

LOL. If you think all reports and parties are pro Israel, just because UN Watch NGO founder was a Jewish then you are the delusional guy.

Why you cherry picking and ignore fact?

 

[Falcon29]

LOL. If you think all reports and parties are pro Israel, just because UN Watch NGO founder was a Jewish then you are the delusional guy.

Why you cherry picking and ignore fact?

Stop embarrassing yourself, you are backed into corner after another one of your lies was debunked. It is a blog that mocks UN, and is anti-UN, by very pro-Israel Jewish Americans. It absolutely is pro-Israel contrary to your claim. It was created solely because of UN statements on Israeli occupation. And I already addressed the junk posted in the link too. And provided you with two pieces of visual footage of Hamas combat during Israeli ground war in 2014. And in both, we can see they use military uniforms. First one they charge Israeli military base near Gaza, and second they wiped out IDF special force hiding in home inside northern Gaza. And as usual, you can say nothing about it.

 

[antonius123]

https://alqassam.ps/arabic/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%88/674/%D8%A7%D8%B4%D8%AA%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%82%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AE%D8%A7%D8%B5%D8%A9-%D8%B4%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AA-%D8%AD%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88%D9%86

@antonius123

I bet this isn't military uniform, either, clown? LOL


You brought nothing, fool.

Yeah keep deniang with your delusion

Baseless accusations from 2014 war, not recent confrontation. And of course like liar you are, you took it from pro-Israel blog. Your link to UN doesn't even work.

I've given link above. I give you again now:

Hamas fires deadly rockets targeting Israeli civilians,using Palestinians as human shields - Letter from Israel - Question of Palestine

Identical letters dated 27 August 2014 from the Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General and the President of the Security Council Over the past 50 days, more than 4,000 rockets have been shot at Israel from the Gaza Strip. Thousands of these...

www.un.org

I've asked you before: if NYPost twisting UN Report, why UN did not complain/sue NYPost for twisting their report? ..... and what is your answer?

 

[Falcon29]

Yeah keep deniang with your delusion

As I expected, you have nothing to say. We can all see Hamas ground forces fending off Israeli ground invasion in the video, in full military uniform/gear, contrary to BS lies you try spreading.

I've given link above. I give you again now:

Hamas fires deadly rockets targeting Israeli civilians,using Palestinians as human shields - Letter from Israel - Question of Palestine

Identical letters dated 27 August 2014 from the Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General and the President of the Security Council Over the past 50 days, more than 4,000 rockets have been shot at Israel from the Gaza Strip. Thousands of these...

www.un.org

I've asked you before: if NYPost twisting UN Report, why UN did not complain/sue NYPost for twisting their report? ..... and what is your answer?

This is not from UN, it is copy of script of Israeli ambassador speech at UN Security Council in 2014. You should read the content of links you post before posting.

 

[antonius123]

Stop embarrassing yourself, you are backed into corner after another one of your lies was debunked. It is a blog that mocks UN, and is anti-UN, by very pro-Israel Jewish Americans. It absolutely is pro-Israel contrary to your claim. It was created solely because of UN statements on Israeli occupation. And I already addressed the junk posted in the link too. And provided you with two pieces of visual footage of Hamas combat during Israeli ground war in 2014. And in both, we can see they use military uniforms. First one they charge Israeli military base near Gaza, and second they wiped out IDF special force hiding in home inside northern Gaza. And as usual, you can say nothing about it.

You are here embarassing yourself buddy.

There are tons of evidence given, and all you can counter is just one. The reminder is just denial of yours.

Even if your suspicion about UN Watch pro Israel is true, doesn't mean NYPost and UN Report is false .

Besides, you dont bring any evidence to support your claim, all you can do is just bragging accusation by accusation.

 

[Falcon29]

You are here embarassing yourself buddy.

There are tons of evidence given, and all you can counter is just one. The reminder is just denial of yours.

Even if your suspicion about UN Watch pro Israel is true, doesn't mean NYPost and UN Report is false .

Besides, you dont bring any evidence to support your claim, all you can do is just bragging accusation by accusation.

Nope, you are embarrassing yourself. Making stupid unsubstantiated accusations against Hamas, and posting links of things you don't even understand. You just posted link of Israeli Ambassador speech at UN Security Council and tried to pass it off as some UN investigation into Gaza conflict. You try accusing Hamas of dressing in civilian gear, and two pieces of real combat footage in 2014 proved otherwise.

Also you posted stuff from pro-Israel blog and tried to link to UN website with broken link. Try harder my friend.