Indonesia Leaders : We Stand With The People of Palestine

[Respect4Respect01]

You are talking about Palestine, not Israel.

exactly, lawlessness in Palestine is an effect and its Cause is Israeli Occupation.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

Whatever reason you explain to justify Hamas killing Palestinian civilians, it violate humanity.
No, there is no evidence Israel kill their own people for being alleged to cooperate with enemy.

lol look who is talking about humanity, the supporter of child killers and occupiers. I don't know in which world you live, all countries have some kind of punishment for traitors, it could be jail or death penalty...Pakistan hanged few army officers several years back because of their links with foreign intelligence.
If a foreign Army occupied your land and killed your people then you would surely hang the traitors too. So don't try to act like an angel.

No. Most countries will treat the suspect (as traitors) according to law, not just unlawful killings. Thats why I said above: you were actually talking about Palestine and Hamas when saying Israel is lawless.

You are mixing up to different comments. First of all you need to go back few pages and read my comments again where i said Palestine is "Lawless" because INTERNATIONAL laws don't apply there. And why international laws don't apply there? because of hypocrisy, world leaders are hypocrite, they don't care if innocents are being killed and their land being stolen by the Zionists, Israelis even used white phosphorus there too. I can't image if any other country could get away with such blatant violations of international law.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

The article already explain.
If Hamas did not use human shield by hiding in civilian facilities (school, hospital, mosque, etc), the tolls on civilian would be minimized.

Stop this human shields bullshit, nobody buys that. Its Israeli propaganda you are repeating again and again.

these are clearly war crimes, nobody hides in schools or mosques. Israelis lie all the time and AP News caught them this time so they had to back off.

Israeli official rolls back army chief comments on AP Gaza

Thats why I said both are not innocent.
But at least Israel doesnt target civilian deliberately like Hamas.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/bombing-civilian-objects-war-crime

You can't complain and accuse Israel did war crime, when Hamas was provocating and attacking Israel civilian first. Israel has right to self defense and did her best effort to minimize civilian tolls. The civilian tolls is high on Palestine side due to Hamas way of war (using human shield, and hiding behind civilian).

your same old propaganda is getting boring now, there is a reason why most of the world is against Israel and don't support their occupation.

Now tell me what religion do you follow? why are you afraid to reveal your religion if you are so righteous?

 

[antonius123]

exactly, lawlessness in Palestine is an effect and its Cause is Israeli Occupation.

Israel occupation is legal, based on UN Partition Land + Oslo Accord (west bank).

So no excuse for violence from Palestine side.

 

[antonius123]

lol look who is talking about humanity, the supporter of child killers and occupiers. I don't know in which world you live, all countries have some kind of punishment for traitors, it could be jail or death penalty...Pakistan hanged few army officers several years back because of their links with foreign intelligence.
If a foreign Army occupied your land and killed your people then you would surely hang the traitors too. So don't try to act like an angel.

But is there such a law in Palestine State? show me. Besides, they deserve trial first and have right to defend themself against such prosecution.

If they did not go through such procedure, then what Hamas did is lawless and against human right.

You are mixing up to different comments. First of all you need to go back few pages and read my comments again where i said Palestine is "Lawless" because INTERNATIONAL laws don't apply there. And why international laws don't apply there? because of hypocrisy, world leaders are hypocrite, they don't care if innocents are being killed and their land being stolen by the Zionists, Israelis even used white phosphorus there too. I can't image if any other country could get away with such blatant violations of international law.

Who said UN did not care with land stealing?? But first of all, prove it concretely.

So it is not about UN doesnt care with land being stolen by Zionist, but there is no such a land stolen by Zionist. All land that Israel stand and occupy are legal, based on UN Partition land (land of Israel) and Oslo Accord (West Bank). Maybe just east Jerusalem that is still in dispute.

Also UN very much care about killing innocent, thats why resolution come condemning both Israel and Palestine/Hamas.

 

[antonius123]

Stop this human shields bullshit, nobody buys that. Its Israeli propaganda you are repeating again and again.

these are clearly war crimes, nobody hides in schools or mosques. Israelis lie all the time and AP News caught them this time so they had to back off.

Israeli official rolls back army chief comments on AP Gaza

Who said nobody buys that? you dont buy that, many other buys.

Since when UN Report is Israel propaganda? you are double standard, when UN condemn Israel you hail world condemn Israel, when UN says Hamas human shield you say UN as Israel propaganda agency. LOL

Read again this UN Report, they also blame 2 sides (Israel & Palestine) for different reasons. With Hamas UN blame human shield usage.

The report also confirmed something Israel’s been saying all along: Hamas stored mortars and other weapons in at least three UN schools during last summer’s war and fired rockets at Israel from two of them.

UN report outlines how Hamas used kids as human shields

The headlines in most places were entirely predictable: “UN Says Israel Killed 44 Palestinians in Schools During Gaza War.” That was indeed one finding of a UN report published Monday — but only pa…

nypost.com

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/bombing-civilian-objects-war-crime

The reason of Israel bombing civilian objects is already explained many times: because Hamas used these civilian facilities not only for fighting ISrael army, but also for their terror against Israel civilian.

Why denial?? If you deny that, then explain why Israel need to destroy those facilities with evidence.

your same old propaganda is getting boring now, there is a reason why most of the world is against Israel and don't support their occupation.

Now tell me what religion do you follow? why are you afraid to reveal your religion if you are so righteous?

I am talking based on evidence, while you are replying just with denial, and mere accusations without evidence.

 

[antonius123]

no, they attacked the worshippers during the last week of Ramadan. Attack on innocent civilians is not a clash. Don't twist the fact to suite your narrative.

Palestinians recount violent raid by Israeli forces on Al-Aqsa

Monday was the most violent crackdown yet on Palestinians marking the holy month of Ramadan.

www.aljazeera.com

LOL. You critizise Indian news report regarding Hamas-Israel conflict, but use Aljazeera again

Aljazeera will always side with Arab/Palestine interest

The original Al Jazeera channel was launched 1 November 1996 by an emiri decree with a loan of 500 million Qatari riyals (US$137 million) from the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa.[53][54]

Al Jazeera Media Network - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you gave no evidence, i completely refuted your claims. Netanyahu always played this trick whenever he was in trouble. The matter of the fact is all their leadership is full of extremists who don't consider Palestinians as equal human beings/

I gave it, you laughed on it (bcs of Indian news) and then you recognized it, then you deny it, what a flip flop

But OK, I bring another much stronger evidence:

On 7 May, large numbers of police were deployed on the Temple Mount as around 70,000 worshippers attended the final Friday prayers of Ramadan at al-Aqsa. After the evening prayers, some Palestinian worshippers began throwing previously stockpiled rocks and other objects at Israeli police officers. Police officers fired stun grenades into the mosque compound, and into a field clinic.[39][71][122] A mosque spokesman stated the clashes broke out after Israeli police attempted to evacuate the compound, where many Palestinians sleep over in Ramadan, adding that the evacuation was intended to allow access to Israelis.[58] More than 300 Palestinians were wounded as Israeli police stormed the mosque compound.[123][124] Palestinians threw rocks, firecrackers, and heavy objects, while Israeli police fired stun grenades, tear gas, and rubber bullets at worshippers.[124][37][125][126] The storming came ahead of a Jerusalem Day flag march by Jewish nationalists through the Old City.[124][127] More than 600 Palestinians were injured, more than 400 of whom were hospitalised.[42] Militants in Gaza fired rockets into Israel the following night.[128]

2021 Israel–Palestine crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your accusation that the cause is bcs Netanyahu internal affair which has NO evidence.

 

[antonius123]

no you need to read my posts again, Hamas is only a resistance group and they will keep resisting until Israelis don't stop this occupation and genocide. But its also a fact that Netanyahu attacked Gaza to save himself but that still didn't work out this time. In return for the first time in history Hamas gave them a bloody nose. Image of Strong and Powerful Israel was shattered this time.

Those all lies.

Hamas intention is as following:
The original Charter identified Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel

Hamas Charter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No, you haven't given any evidence regarding your accusation that Netanyahu attack Gaza/Mosque for his internal political movement.

no you need to go check the dictionary again, Accident and Incident are not the same words. Incident means event

"
-an individual occurrence or event.
-a distinct piece of action, or an episode, as in a story or play.
-something that occurs casually in connection with something else.
-something appertaining or attaching to something else.
''

Here is a definition of "incident" from https://www.dictionary.com/browse/incident

LOL. Be a little bit smarter please, I did not read "Incident" as "Accident". I said: this incident was an accident.

This incident was an accident. Israel is NOT and never been foe of US, so there was no reason for Israel to deliberately attack USS Liberty and there is no reason for US to attack Israel back. LOL.

 

[antonius123]

Not in denial, the exact report in NyPost. NyPost is twisting it, not you.

LOL. If so then UN should have already criticized NYPost vehemently for such twisting UN report.

Just show me evidence.

No one allowed to travel outside Gaza or into West Bank without Israeli approval. Do more research on this subject friend.

Yes, it is due to Hamas (terrorism organization) took control over Gaza; but even if upon Israel approval, Hamas can play as civilian to pass the gate checking; besides they can come from different route instead directly from Gaza to West Bank.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

Israel occupation is legal, based on UN Partition Land + Oslo Accord (west bank).

So no excuse for violence from Palestine side.

You don't know that UN and most of the world doesn't recognize OCCUPIED territory? Only land that is recognized is what was given to Israel by Untied Nations...everything else they occupied after that, including recent land grabbing in Sheikh Jarrah and siwan is considered occupation by UN.

But is there such a law in Palestine State? show me. Besides, they deserve trial first and have right to defend themself against such prosecution.

If they did not go through such procedure, then what Hamas did is lawless and against human right.

Capital Punishment is allowed under Gaza, and most of the countries in the world jail or hang people over treason, its nothing new here.

Who said nobody buys that? you dont buy that, many other buys.

Since when UN Report is Israel propaganda? you are double standard, when UN condemn Israel you hail world condemn Israel, when UN says Hamas human shield you say UN as Israel propaganda agency. LOL

Read again this UN Report, they also blame 2 sides (Israel & Palestine) for different reasons. With Hamas UN blame human shield usage.

The report also confirmed something Israel’s been saying all along: Hamas stored mortars and other weapons in at least three UN schools during last summer’s war and fired rockets at Israel from two of them.

UN report outlines how Hamas used kids as human shields

The headlines in most places were entirely predictable: “UN Says Israel Killed 44 Palestinians in Schools During Gaza War.” That was indeed one finding of a UN report published Monday — but only pa…

nypost.com

NYpost is owned by a Zionist, its a propaganda tool and i was waiting for you the bring this up again.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

The reason of Israel bombing civilian objects is already explained many times: because Hamas used these civilian facilities not only for fighting ISrael army, but also for their terror against Israel civilian.

Why denial?? If you deny that, then explain why Israel need to destroy those facilities with evidence.

they destroy civilian building because they know they can get away with it, they do it on purpose so Palestine have to move somewhere and they can start bringing settlers there.

LOL. You critizise Indian news report regarding Hamas-Israel conflict, but use Aljazeera again

Aljazeera will always side with Arab/Palestine interest

The original Al Jazeera channel was launched 1 November 1996 by an emiri decree with a loan of 500 million Qatari riyals (US$137 million) from the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa.[53][54]

I criticize Indian newspapers because i know their agenda unlike you. They were caught by Disinfolab for spreading their propaganda, and Indian media always sides with Israel because they hate Muslims. Any country that is against Muslims is a role model for Indian extremists.

You need to stop relying on Wikipedia, nobody with believes Wikipedia articles, anybody can edit these articles do you even know that? Pakistanis and Indians do that all the time against each other. you rarely see me post Wikipedia as my source because its not trustworthy.

Only international NGO's or United Nations backed NGO's are good sources because they visit Palestine and Israel and most of the times know the ground reality.

About Al Jazeera...do you even know that its one of the top International news agencies? If you can trust BBC with their "Palestinians DIED and Israelis Killed" BS then you should have no problem accepting Al Jazeera. All countries fund National TV stations in someway, have you ever read the disclaimer on YouTube under videos related to these tv stations.

LOL. Be a little bit smarter please, I did not read "Incident" as "Accident". I said: this incident was an accident.

This incident was an accident. Israel is NOT and never been foe of US, so there was no reason for Israel to deliberately attack USS Liberty and there is no reason for US to attack Israel back. LOL.

no you need to open you eyes and read what said up there...everybody on that vessel knew that Israel attacked them on purpose to blame the Arabs so USA would get involved.

Iran also recently attacked USA bases in Iraq, you didn't reply that.

 

[antonius123]

You don't know that UN and most of the world doesn't recognize OCCUPIED territory? Only land that is recognized is what was given to Israel by Untied Nations...everything else they occupied after that, including recent land grabbing in Sheikh Jarrah and siwan is considered occupation by UN.

Which occupied territory that you mean?

For sure all Israel sovereignity land + west bank occupied region C is legal and recognized by UN.

Capital Punishment is allowed under Gaza, and most of the countries in the world jail or hang people over treason, its nothing new here.

Just show me evidence Palestinian State law for the punishing suspected traitors with "dead penalty" without trial.

Even this kind of law (if exist) already against humanity

NYpost is owned by a Zionist, its a propaganda tool and i was waiting for you the bring this up again.

Then why no UN protest against the alleged twisting of UN reports by NYPost? LOL

Directly from UN Report:

Evidence of this criminal strategy is mounting and the examples are too numerous to count. Hamas has routinely fired from schools, playgrounds and hotels, as described below:

• On 8 July, a rocket was fired from within the El’ Azhar Islamic College
• On 14 July, an M-75 rocket was launched from a children’s playground located in the neighbourhood of Shuj a’iya
• On 1 August, a rocket was fired from within the Al-Shati refugee camp, near the Al Mashtal hotel, where many journalists were staying

Hamas fires deadly rockets targeting Israeli civilians,using Palestinians as human shields - Letter from Israel - Question of Palestine

Identical letters dated 27 August 2014 from the Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General and the President of the Security Council Over the past 50 days, more than 4,000 rockets have been shot at Israel from the Gaza Strip. Thousands of these...

www.un.org

Now what you are going to say?

 

[antonius123]

they destroy civilian building because they know they can get away with it, they do it on purpose so Palestine have to move somewhere and they can start bringing settlers there.

You can say any hypothesis or suspicion or accusation regarding Israel motive to attack, but as long as Hamas keep attacking Israel especially civilian, then you can't complain if Israel attack back all Hamas facilities which unfortunately are located on purpose in civilian facilities.

How come you justify Hamas' usage of civilian facilities and attacking on Israel civilian by rockets while blaming Israel defence action for the civilian tolls on Hamas side?

I criticize Indian newspapers because i know their agenda unlike you. They were caught by Disinfolab for spreading their propaganda, and Indian media always sides with Israel because they hate Muslims. Any country that is against Muslims is a role model for Indian extremists.

You need to stop relying on Wikipedia, nobody with believes Wikipedia articles, anybody can edit these articles do you even know that? Pakistanis and Indians do that all the time against each other. you rarely see me post Wikipedia as my source because its not trustworthy.

Only international NGO's or United Nations backed NGO's are good sources because they visit Palestine and Israel and most of the times know the ground reality.

About Al Jazeera...do you even know that its one of the top International news agencies? If you can trust BBC with their "Palestinians DIED and Israelis Killed" BS then you should have no problem accepting Al Jazeera. All countries fund National TV stations in someway, have you ever read the disclaimer on YouTube under videos related to these tv stations.

You can say my citation is not valid/strong as long as you can bring stronger/more valid citation to counter it. You can't say my citation is wrong just because not in line with your suspicion/accusation.

As I said before: Wikipedia source is strong and valid, as long as it is backed on valid citation. It is not strong/valid if the wikipedia says: "it still need citation". Wikipedia is just like encyclopedia, you can't blame encyclopedia because not in line with your opinion, but you need bring more valid citation.

NGO is not always neutral, and can be biassed too. Basically all human can be biassed.

LOL. You accuse top global media like CNN under zionist control, but claim Al Jazeera neutral ... what a double standard

no you need to open you eyes and read what said up there...everybody on that vessel knew that Israel attacked them on purpose to blame the Arabs so USA would get involved.

Iran also recently attacked USA bases in Iraq, you didn't reply that.

It is crystal clear here:
Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.[6] Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8]

Iran attack is still in US investigation.

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[antonius123]

Hamas' Human Shield Tactic as Reported by Foreign Journalists

Hamas' Human Shield Tactic as Reported by Foreign Journalists - UN Watch

Hamas’ Human Shield Tactic as Reported by Foreign Journalists 1. The Gaza correspondent of Canada’s Globe and Mail, Patrick Martin, wrote in his article from 20 July: “The presence of militant fighters in Shejaia became clear Sunday afternoon when, under the cover of a humanitarian truce...

unwatch.org

@Respect4Respect01 @tower9 @Globenim @UKBengali @Naofumi @Falcon29 @mike2000 is back @retaxis @Whizzack @Indos @Lego Jangkar @Reashot Xigwin

 

[Respect4Respect01]

@antonius123 this debate isn't going anywhere with same things you have been repeating since the first post.

You need to stop deflecting and answer my question first. What is you religion? Are you Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Jew, Atheist or Satanist? its just a simple question.