Indonesia Defence Forum

[Cromwell]

There is reason why Alman recently being down and said France not prioritized Rafale sales to Indonesia, although the truth is vice Versa. Indonesia is not prioritized Rafale deals to begin with. Although for the Navy stuff, France held the upper ground

There's something high above, the talks from higher level and we have no idea about it. There's talks about JSF and we intend to use whatever we communicate with The French as leverage to the deal, however should we didn't receive what we wanted, could there be other alternative ? Let's say Eagle.

 

[Chestnut]

If you interprete the news as such

It's somewhat obvious what Luhut is trying to do. The fact that for the most part our MinDef has been quiet about which aircraft they prefer whereas Luhut is stating something as "disappointing" and using whataboutisms towards Singapore is pretty indicative that he's trying to stir public perception.

 

[Gundala]

"Pak Menko juga angkat bahwa penjualan senjata berteknologi tinggi dari AS juga sepertinya tidak sepantar dengan yang diberikan ke Singapura. Jadi dibutuhkan signal bahwa memang betul AS melihat Indonesia sebagai mitra strategis," kata Jodi.

Saat dikonfirmasi apakah kekecewaan Luhut berkaitan dengan penjualan jet tempur F-16 Block 72 Viper ke Indonesia yang merupakan masih generasi ke-4, dan AS malah bersedia memberikan jet tempur lebih canggih generasi ke-5 yaitu F-35 ke Singapura, Jodi membenarkan hal tersebut.

"Iya," tegasnya.

Hmmmm....

Not surprising, like I said before the objection most likely come from Sing and the consideration of our current relation to US. Our bebas aktif has been leaning towards China last couple of years tho its pretty much for economic reason but still we failed/too slow to adapt towards the geopolitics of SCS, specially between US and China.

If we only get Viper then its ok, we need to field bunch of them and try to gain more from trade off. The operational cost of Viper is far cheaper then F-35 nevertheless (good for current economic uncertainty), and without EWA/Good network centric we wouldnt be able to fully utilize its capability. So not much to lose imo.

September is not done tho, there might be more political intrigue going on but I dont see it moves way much from what the above statement have said.

 

[Fl0gger]

If you interprete the news as such

Well lets hope for the best shall we..

 

[Nike]

Luhut Kecewa, Jet F-16 untuk RI Tapi Singapura Dapat F-35

Luhut kecewa dengan penawaran AS terhadap jet tempur F-16, sedangkan Singapura boleh mendapatkan F-35B yang jauh lebih canggih.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

It is part of negotiation, RI want US can staying true in their points of view about Indonesia is their valuable partner in the region even so far to propose and set up schedule for both forces to train together at US soil just like what Singapore did usually.

 

[HeyPaula1963]

Our bebas aktif has been leaning towards China last couple of years tho its pretty much for economic reason but still we failed/too slow to adapt towards the geopolitics of SCS, specially between US and China.

If this really the concern of US Government to Indonesia, then i will expecting if Joe Biden become President, he will make it to be more "longgar", because his own son Hunter Biden was even have a business with PRC state owned enterprise/s that now become the one of the weapon used by the GOP.

And me myself I don't think PRC is a country that must be think as it is a threat that must be finish militarily by the US, it just not worth, it even bad for both countries economy. Yes, PRC are stolen US and other countries intellectual properties , doing an expansionist policy even Indonesia is threaten too. But, you want to accept it or not PRC is one of the biggest US trade partner. They make raw materials that needed by US industries more cheaper, PRC make 3rd biggest of US agricultural export in 2019, both benefiting from their trade that make a lot of jobs in both of the countries. I think what they both need are an agreement and more partnership between both countries in order to make them understand each other. And about the politics of PRC that undemocratic, step that aside first, and find other ways that more civil to help the people of PRC that demanding democracy. For me, they both need agreement than military solution to stop all of this tension and make a more peaceful world.

 

[san.geuk]

If this really the concern of US Government to Indonesia, then i will expecting if Joe Biden become President, he will make it to be more "longgar", because his own son Hunter Biden was even have a business even with PRC state owned enterprise/s that now become the one of the weapon used by the GOP.

And me myself I don't think PRC is a country that must be think as it is a threat that must be finish militarily by the US, it just not worth, it even bad for both countries economy. Yes, PRC are stolen US and other countries intellectual properties , doing an expansionist policy even Indonesia is threaten too. But, you want to accept it or not PRC is one of the biggest US trade partner. They make raw materials that needed by US industries more cheaper, PRC make 3rd biggest of US agricultural export in 2019, both benefiting from their trade that make a lot of jobs in both of the countries. I think what they both need are an agreement and more partnership between both countries in order to make them understand each other. And about the politics of PRC that undemocratic, step that aside first, and find other ways that more civil to help the people of PRC that demanding democracy. For me, they both need agreement than military solution to stop all of this tension and make a more peaceful world.

if the PRC and the US follow your suggestion, is there any guarantee their 9 line dash claim will dismantled with peacefully and respecting the sovereignty of other nations particularly in ASEAN? i doubt about it,

when PRC and the US want peacefull resolution in LCS they have to inclose other ASEAN claimant nations as part of the agreement including with Indonesia, without present of ASEAN claimant nations in part of the agreement the whole LCS only will be PRC authority and dominion

 

[HeyPaula1963]

when PRC and the US want peacefull resolution in LCS they have to inclose other ASEAN claimant nations as part of the agreement including with Indonesia, without present of ASEAN claimant nations in part of the agreement the whole LCS only will be PRC authority and dominion

Yes, I agree with you about this.

 

[NEKONEKO]

For me, they both need agreement than military solution to stop all of this tension and make a more peaceful world.

Agree.

And I don't want to see Munich Betrayal mk.2 in Indo pacific either.

 

[Gundala]

If this really the concern of US Government to Indonesia, then i will expecting if Joe Biden become President, he will make it to be more "longgar", because his own son Hunter Biden was even have a business with PRC state owned enterprise/s that now become the one of the weapon used by the GOP.

And me myself I don't think PRC is a country that must be think as it is a threat that must be finish militarily by the US, it just not worth, it even bad for both countries economy. Yes, PRC are stolen US and other countries intellectual properties , doing an expansionist policy even Indonesia is threaten too. But, you want to accept it or not PRC is one of the biggest US trade partner. They make raw materials that needed by US industries more cheaper, PRC make 3rd biggest of US agricultural export in 2019, both benefiting from their trade that make a lot of jobs in both of the countries. I think what they both need are an agreement and more partnership between both countries in order to make them understand each other. And about the politics of PRC that undemocratic, step that aside first, and find other ways that more civil to help the people of PRC that demanding democracy. For me, they both need agreement than military solution to stop all of this tension and make a more peaceful world.

The closer the economic ties the closer the dependency, its just the rule of the game. Such as Germany with Russians gas pipeline where even that the US have threaten to give sanction to the company involving in the pipeline regardless if the company is from Europe origin. Once the pipe is done then US will have far less influence to Germany, and they dont want that.

China is a threat, specially with how they enforcing the nine dash line thats a fact. As for military action I say NO ONE wants to see it happen, not even US or China. Why? Simply because China has succeeded balancing the economic and military power of US, war is costly and hard to sell domestically. So what they do is balancing the power in SCS by doing "freedom of navigation", placing their carrier close, "patroling", etc. In Indo word is gertak sambal while limitting the expansion and influence of China in the process.

And if you are looking for agreement between those two and I shall say it less likely to happen, it will be more like cat and mouse game. US economy is driven (one of them) by its military industry thus they need "enemy" to make their business rolling. Right now there isnt much left in Arab land so China with its SCS issue is the perfect one. China need to secure its supply line as this is the most vulnarable side, one military blocking in Malaka straight and China might be running out of supply to fire their industry and feed their billions people, hence the 9 dash line (they can get closer to Malaka straight), their lobby to create stratight out of Thailand land, overseas port around Andaman sea etc.

 

[HeyPaula1963]

The closer the economic ties the closer the dependency, its just the rule of the game. Such as Germany with Russians gas pipeline where even that the US have threaten to give sanction to the company involving in the pipeline regardless if the company is from Europe origin. Once the pipe is done then US will have far less influence to Germany, and they dont want that.

China is a threat, specially with how they enforcing the nine dash line thats a fact. As for military action I say NO ONE wants to see it happen, not even US or China. Why? Simply because China has succeeded balancing the economic and military power of US, war is costly and hard to sell domestically. So what they do is balancing the power in SCS by doing "freedom of navigation", placing their carrier close, "patroling", etc. In Indo word is gertak sambal while limitting the expansion and influence of China in the process.

And if you are looking for agreement between those two and I shall say it less likely to happen, it will be more like cat and mouse game. US economy is driven (one of them) by its military industry thus they need "enemy" to make their business rolling. Right now there isnt much left in Arab land so China with its SCS issue is the perfect one. China need to secure its supply line as this is the most vulnarable side, one military blocking in Malaka straight and China might be running out of supply to fire their industry and feed their billions people, hence the 9 dash line (they can get closer to Malaka straight), their lobby to create stratight out of Thailand land, overseas port around Andaman sea etc.

Ok, I understand your concern. But, you pointing finger at the US that they "need enemy" is really bother me. You're seems really cynical to US.

 

[polanski]

Indonesia on high alert after appearance of Chinese vessel CCG 4205: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...-after-appearance-of-chinese-vessel-ccg-4205/

 

[Gundala]

Ok, I understand your concern. But, you just pointing finger at the US that they "need enemy" is really bother me. You're seems really cynical to US.

Nah, I am not cynical its just the way I see it. Maybe the softer words is "Competition or perhaps rivalry".

 

[HeyPaula1963]

Nah, I am not cynical its just the way I see it. Maybe the softer words is "Competition or perhaps rivalry".

" Competition or perhaps rivalry" against who?

 

[HeyPaula1963]

Nah, I am not cynical its just the way I see it. Maybe the softer words is "Competition or perhaps rivalry".

Against?