Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

Its just that they could threaten us again after we buy F16.

Not really we just need F 16, US still the sole supplier of several critical items on defense, avionic, engines and chipset and other high tech system . You just cant fly without GPS (especially when you are using US or European made planes) , or you cant taking routes without garmin set, and so on.

Taking example, for Medium tank we are using Caterpillar c13 diesel engines and using alison Caterpillar transmission system. Most of our land , air and naval system had US components parts on them, not to mention when you are talking about Indonesia is pursue C4ISR system and compatible with certain countries in the block

In military matter, Indonesia armed forces cant be separated from US made tech it just how far we are depend on them. Its because most of system we are sourcing came from US allies like west European countries, South Korean, Turkey and US itself.

 

[NEKONEKO]

Not really we just need F 16, US still the sole supplier of several critical items on defense, avionic, engines and chipset and other high tech system . You just cant fly without GPS (especially when you are using US or European made planes) , or you cant taking routes without garmin set, and so on.

Taking example, for Medium tank we are using Caterpillar c13 diesel engines and using alison Caterpillar transmission system. Most of our land , air and naval system had US components parts on them, not to mention when you are talking about Indonesia is pursue C4ISR system and compatible with certain countries in the block

In military matter, Indonesia armed forces cant be separated from US made tech it just how far we are depend on them. Its because most of system we are sourcing came from US allies like west European countries, South Korean, Turkey and US itself.

If they give us Embargoes Mk.2 that would hurt us very much.

 

[Nike]

If they give us Embargoes Mk.2 that would hurt us very much.

Very much, our armed forces capability to engage peer adversary will be crippled actually and can only handle low intensity conflict. But the chance is actually very much slim as they and us got aligned interest in the very very long term
1. Indonesia foreign policy advocate more status quo in the region, this something in the agenda of their so far
2. Indonesia and Countries in the region pursue economy growth based on investment, trade and freedom of navigation thus certain country up north trying to made great sea wall is not in line with what we had in mind so with the US
3. Indonesia defense needs is in nascent stage and keep rising in budget, meanwhile matured US industry need more market to sustain their edge over their competitor thus with this regard its no brainer to keep us outside of their influence

 

[Chaplin009x]

i think rafale has advantage over su35, in my opinion the french have a better radar although less manueverability compare to the russian, better bvr, combat proven, more weapons choices, better integrated with previous system we have, the aquisition more expensive but maintenance cost seems cheaper than the su35, it also an omnirole fighter so air superiority must be came in one package, not mention that CAATSA problem, we don't want to loose opportunity left by korea in IFX/KFX project

i can't give the source of my opinion, coz it came from various sources,
viper + rafale seems better than viper + su35

i think rafale has advantage over su35, in my opinion the french have a better radar although less manueverability compare to the russian, better bvr, combat proven, more weapons choices, better integrated with previous system we have, the aquisition more expensive but maintenance cost seems cheaper than the su35, it also an omnirole fighter so air superiority must be came in one package, not mention that CAATSA problem, we don't want to loose opportunity left by korea in IFX/KFX project

i can't give the source of my opinion, coz it came from various sources,
viper + rafale seems better than viper + su35

Rafale is an alternative because of CAATSA's problems and it seems that Sukhoi will not be canceled because diversification of defense equipment is important for the TNI because past experience has been embargoed by the US, this is part of a negotiating strategy before making a decision in April and there is no direct battle between su 35 against west fighters and no one underestimates PESA irbis E, so far su 35 has remained at the forefront of Russia before the development of su 57 is complete. Are Russian fighters a joke like Iranian fighters?

 

[mandala]

Really speechless with Almand Helvas recent tweets saying how dare Indonesia wants to develop own submarine. So is it wrong of him that Indonesia wants to try and develop its own submarine?

 

[Lasa-X]

US: So that trade imbalance with Indonesia still persists huh... Alright then, let's put them in our negative list of preferrential trade partner.
That small tariff for their products?
Just kiss it goodbye...

Well, US military products are more than just F-16. We need their Herky, P-8, missiles, helos, etc

 

[Nike]

Really speechless with Almand Helvas recent tweets saying how dare Indonesia wants to develop own submarine. So is it wrong of him that Indonesia wants to try and develop its own submarine?

Our track record in shipbuilding is rather decent, the only problem is corruption case and financial problem not in technical per se. Given chance we can build our own Submarine

 

[Raduga]

Really speechless with Almand Helvas recent tweets saying how dare Indonesia wants to develop own submarine. So is it wrong of him that Indonesia wants to try and develop its own submarine?

i rather see it in my persepective , he insist to do TOT with current generation submarine rather than the 209 .

 

[Jatosint]

Really speechless with Almand Helvas recent tweets saying how dare Indonesia wants to develop own submarine. So is it wrong of him that Indonesia wants to try and develop its own submarine?

Our track record in shipbuilding is rather decent, the only problem is corruption case and financial problem not in technical per se. Given chance we can build our own Submarine

He said that because it's not European subs (some people on twitter see him as a European salesman and DSME/CBG haters)

 

[Nike]

i rather see it in my persepective , he insist to do TOT with current generation submarine rather than the 209 .

U 209 is proven and mature series of Submarine even newer Germany design is stretch and adaptive design from u209 classes, of course if you just still lingering on diesel powered Submarine why bother with all hush hush AIP this and that with little increment in capability , i would rather use that money to jump into Nuclear powered attack Submarine

 

[HellFireIndo]

Being able to self-produce improved U209 on our own is already great achievement in itself, even better if we could further uses it as a foundation for later development, perhaps acquiring weaponry and AIP technology on the go. It's not the best, yes, but there is no point to buy the best if it risks embargo, overdependency and that there are too few of them due to the overall more expensive cost of foreign stuff. Having 12 U209 in the region is already a very formidable figure and deterrent factor, there is no point of choosing the best of European diesel-electric subs but it'll end up like PKR Sigma, too few in number and there's contract problem, Malaysian Scorpene case is not enough of a lesson?

It's already good enough that the President realize the importance of self-sufficiency of armaments, the rest is drawing up the big plan to develop local defense industry, acquiring as much technology as possible. ToT reluctance be damned, either we push for it and be a jerk, or never.

 

[Raduga]

U 209 is proven and mature series of Submarine even newer Germany design is stretch and adaptive design from u209 classes, of course if you just still lingering on diesel powered Submarine why bother with all hush hush AIP this and that with little increment in capability , i would rather use that money to jump into Nuclear powered attack Submarine

this is where scorpene come in prabowo mind probably , brazil actually able to planned to build their own nuclear submarine due to DCNS (and their government support and willingness of course) , while im not saying korean one is bad , but DCNS atleast is more experienced in this scope.
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"The Brazilian submarine Álvaro Alberto is a nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) under construction for the Brazilian Navy. The construction is part of the strategic partnership signed between France and Brazil in 2008, which also included the total transfer of technology and support for the construction of four enlarged conventionally-powered Scorpène-class submarines

In 2009, Brazil purchased four enlarged Scorpène-class conventionally-powered submarines for US$9.9 billion with a total technology transfer agreement, giving to the country the knowledge for the design and construction of submarine hulls.The first Brazilian Scorpène-class submarine, Riachuelo, was launched on 14 December 2018.

The project was initiated in 2012 through the Submarine Development Program (PROSUB), with the Itaguaí base in Rio de Janeiro as the submarine development and manufacturing point. From 2010 to 2012, a group of 31 engineers, 25 officers and 6 civil employees, received theoretical training by the DCNS (now Naval Group) in France. In 2018, more than 400 Brazilian engineers worked on the nuclear submarine project staff, originally formed by the group that received training in France."
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i believe prabowo have a decent reasoning with our submarine matters , to make even journal page like La Tribune dare to post such news , if the next variation type of our subs is going to be 75meter Scorpene like the brazil had , i will not dissapointed(even if i was still favor u214 in the same class) , also mentioning the current exocet stock in our storage could actually fit in their torpedo tube .

what i see here , maybe prabowo want to follow brazil way , to have the 209 fleet first (tupi class) then scorpene after it .

 

[Gaman]

Just add spices to better taste the dish

Dassault Rafale vs Sukhoi SU-35 Comparison

Rafale vs SU-35 Flight Cost Per Hour




Read more https://aviatia.net/rafale-vs-su-35/

 

[Gaman]

More Spices

French Dassault Rafale vs US F-16E Fighting Falcon Block 60 Comparison

Rafale vs F-16 Flight Cost Per Hour






Read more https://aviatia.net/dassault-rafale-vs-f-16-fighting-falcon/

 

[Gaman]

US F-16E Fighting Falcon Block 60 vs SU-35 Comparison

F-16 vs SU-35 Flight Cost Per Hour





Read more https://aviatia.net