Indonesia Defence Forum

[Indos]

Ok first of all. We can not spend AF budget for others (army or navy). So it is a big no no take money from Vipers budget to buy naval ships.
Second, su-35 contract already signed couple of years ago. No need another signing.
What needed is stop doing counter trade weapons with commodities especially if not ready to prepare what the other party wants. If they want A, prepare A and don't push them to accept X, Y or Z.
Then can move on and worry about caatsa.

If not Vipers then what other option AF has to replace Hawk fleet? KSAU mentioned about Vipers few times last year. Not JF-17, rafale, F-35 or others. He said it clear, Vipers.


About Jokowi, what he meant if you can buy it from local inhan, then buy local. Like subs. Doesn't mean you have to buy local fighters and if don't have it, don't buy at all.

As I said in my previous post, we should wait on KFX/IFX to enter its manufacturing phase. 2026 is not too far from 2020. Less reliance from other countries are better. We are also not in a rush. Why dont use the spending intended for 32 F 16 V for something else in the period of 2020-2026 and focus on IFX acquisition in the period of 2026-2032, it doesnt seem as problematic for me, but rather a smart planning with long term vision.

And talking about F 16 V acquisition while in the same time Jokowi still feel a bit burden to pay 2 billion dollar for KFX/IFX development seems a bit funny for me. Do we try to sacrifice our KFX/IFX program for the sake of buying F 16 V ? Seems a short sight vision IMO. There was also a plan previously to decrease the number of IFX we should buy from 48 into just 16 for the sake of curbing trade deficit.

 

[striver44]

Those KFX imaginary fighters will likely have its first flights in the 2030s and it will took years to complete the full delivery of all jets. And all the while our air force assets are getting older and out of place not to mention their very very limited numbers. While at the same time we have a commie bully threatening up north.

I say buy the jets first to fulfill our MEF

 

[Jatosint]

As I said in my previous post, we should wait on KFX/IFX to enter its manufacturing phase. 2026 is not too far from 2020. Less reliance from other countries are better. We are also not in a rush. Why dont use the spending intended for 32 F 16 V for something else in the period of 2020-2026 and focus on IFX acquisition in the period of 2026-2032, it doesnt seem as problematic for me, but rather a smart planning with long term vision.

And talking about F 16 V acquisition while in the same time Jokowi still feel a bit burden to pay 2 billion dollar for KFX/IFX development seems a bit funny for me. Do we try to sacrifice our KFX/IFX program for the sake of buying F 16 V ? Seems a short sight vision IMO. There was also a plan previously to decrease the number of IFX we should buy from 48 into just 16 for the sake of curbing trade deficit.

You also has to considered that KFX/IFX is still a 'project/prototype', it is an unproven design. What happens if we cancel F-16 procurement plan and then KFX/IFX was delayed?

IMO, the risk is too big to throw away proven and mature aircraft (F-16) that has been operated by our AF for 30 years for something that is still unproven

 

[Nike]

KFX IFX still made us very depend on US, South Korean and European components which parts is Indonesian made? If you said it is the wings, aerolon, or even airframe sorry to say, it very much nothing on a whole.

 

[Lasa-X]

As I said in my previous post, we should wait on KFX/IFX to enter its manufacturing phase. 2026 is not too far from 2020. Less reliance from other countries are better. We are also not in a rush. Why dont use the spending intended for 32 F 16 V for something else in the period of 2020-2026 and focus on IFX acquisition in the period of 2026-2032, it doesnt seem as problematic for me, but rather a smart planning with long term vision.

And talking about F 16 V acquisition while in the same time Jokowi still feel a bit burden to pay 2 billion dollar for KFX/IFX development seems a bit funny for me. Do we try to sacrifice our KFX/IFX program for the sake of buying F 16 V ? Seems a short sight vision IMO. There was also a plan previously to decrease the number of IFX we should buy from 48 into just 16 for the sake of curbing trade deficit.

Taking money from your AF and give it to other services is a bad political decision. Bad budgeting and planning. You cancel the fighters, then give it for Hercy or nasams. It is still logical. Same service. That's cool.
No one, not even president himself can do lego-style budgeting, copot-pasang-pindah anggaran sak karepe dewe.
Move on, second thing. Budget for IFX is not the same as Vipers.
You can't compare "hhmm... should I buy vipers or ifx with this money this week? My mood said vipers but I don't know hihihihii...May be I should check my ramalan bintang first." No.
Ifx, vipers, su-35, iver, opv, ironman mark XII, batmobile, etc they are all have their own budget. It is not short sight vision because, guess what?? *Drum roll* ....it has been planned years before!!! Hooray!! Woohhooo!! That what makes a world class AF. A good management and planning years a head.
So no one is sacrificing something for anything. At all.

Btw, you seem like having an issues with the Vipers, yes? Let me guess..old design? Not stealth? Made in USA?

 

[V3NOM12]

Imho, i think going for F-16 is the reasonable option compared to Rafale. First we already familiar with it and second can help KFX/IFX programme

 

[NEKONEKO]

48 Rafale, where does this number come from?
French offer as alternative of 32 F16V and SU35?

 

[striver44]

48 Rafale, where does this number come from?
French offer as alternative of 32 F16V and SU35?

From la tribune newspaper

 

[NEKONEKO]

From la tribune newspaper

I know,
Nomernya bro, 48 sebagai alternative 32 viper dan sukhoi atau pengadaan baru?
Kalau pengadaan baru berarti bakal 32 viper + 48 rafale = 80 unit, mending beli satu tipe aja biar dapet deal lebih menguntungkan.
Kok bisa sampai pemberitaannya menyebut angka, ga nyebut kalau Indonesia cuman tertarik saja.

 

[Kansel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1222319297780826112

 

[Nike]

I know,
Nomernya bro, 48 sebagai alternative 32 viper dan sukhoi atau pengadaan baru?
Kalau pengadaan baru berarti bakal 32 viper + 48 rafale = 80 unit, mending beli satu tipe aja biar dapet deal lebih menguntungkan.
Kok bisa sampai pemberitaannya menyebut angka, ga nyebut kalau Indonesia cuman tertarik saja.

Dont know, but i suppose la tribune a specialized business weekly newspaper in France had their own contributor related to French MoD and French Ministry of Finance. Their coverage quite accurate to the details, just like Egypt French deals saga in 2017 they had detail including how French Minister of Finance trying to block such deal warrant the involvement of French Presiden

 

[Chaplin009x]

Dont know, but i suppose la tribune a specialized business weekly newspaper in France had their own contributor related to French MoD and French Ministry of Finance. Their coverage quite accurate to the details, just like Egypt French deals saga in 2017 they had detail including how French Minister of Finance trying to block such deal warrant the involvement of French Presiden

I know,
Nomernya bro, 48 sebagai alternative 32 viper dan sukhoi atau pengadaan baru?
Kalau pengadaan baru berarti bakal 32 viper + 48 rafale = 80 unit, mending beli satu tipe aja biar dapet deal lebih menguntungkan.
Kok bisa sampai pemberitaannya menyebut angka, ga nyebut kalau Indonesia cuman tertarik saja.

CAATSA and us embargo history is the key IMO. It is not about rafale and su 35. How independence french from us in term of technology and politic? Diembargo itu penghinaan untuk sekali saja kita bukan keledai. sorry bad in english. once again IMO

 

[MacanJawa]

Kasian grippen padahal salesnya oke lho wkwk, SUKHOI batal ya?

 

[Ruhnama]

JAJAKI PELUANG KERJASAMA ASSESSMENT F-16, TURKISH DEFENCE INDUSTRIES KUNJUNGI LANUD ISWAHJUDI

Sekalian aja TAI sama aselsan lebih yahuuudd. Baru kali ini denger perusahaan ASFAT.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1222319297780826112

Are they ready with CBRN kit? Hope the operation going smoothly

Kasian grippen

Their sales is agressive, also they can make fansboy fanatik in grass root (they have fansboy website, fanspage etc), meet KPK, etc.

Mgkn gripen M cocok untuk penerbal. Lol

 

[Raduga]

Pemborosan, Prabowo Mau Satukan Kanwil Kemenhan dengan Kodam?
​

Jakarta, CNBC Indonesia - Menteri Pertahanan Letnan Jenderal TNI (Purn) Prabowo Subianto sedang mengkaji keberadaan kantor wilayah Kementerian Pertahanan (Kemenhan) yang tersebar di seluruh Indonesia.

Demikian disampaikan Juru Bicara Menteri Pertahanan, Dahnil Anzar Simanjuntak, dalam wawancara khusus dengan CNBC Indonesia, Selasa (28/1/2020).

"Jadi ini sedang kajian. Menhan menyampaikan (dalam) rapim (rapat pimpinan Kemenhan) sebelumnya bahwa perlu dikaji penambahan kanwil," ujarnya.

Menurut Dahnil, kanwil Kemenhan ada di 34 provinsi di seluruh Indonesia.

Mengutip situs resmi Kemenhan keberadaan kanwil Kemenhan merupakan amanat UU Nomor 3 Tahun 2002 tentang Pertahanan Negara. Salah satu tujuan adalah membantu pemerintah daerah mengelola sumber daya nasional untuk kepentingan pertahanan negara.

Selain UU Nomor 3 Tahun 2002, dasar hukum pembentukan kanwil Kemenhan adalah Peraturan Presiden Nomor 58 Tahun 2015 tentang Kementerian Pertahanan dan Peraturan Menteri Pertahanan Nomor 21 Tahun 2018 tentang Organisasi dan Tata Kerja Kantor Wilayah Kementerian Pertahanan.

Baca:
Ini Alasan Prabowo Masih Harus Impor Senjata dari Luar Negeri
Dalam pasal 2 Perpres Nomor 58/2015 dituliskan, kanwil Kemenhan dipimpin kepala kanwil yang berkedudukan dan bertanggung jawab kepada menhan via koordinasi sekretaris jenderal Kemenhan. Pasal 3 menulis Kepala kanwil Kemenhan mempunyai tugas menyelenggarakan urusan pemerintah di bidang pertahanan di wilayah provinsi berdasarkan kebijakan menteri dan peraturan perundang-undangan.

"Menhan akan melihat kajian mendalam. Kanwil ini menambah kerja birokrasi, pemborosan, dan lain-lain. Apakah ada baiknya disatukan dengan kodam (Komando Daerah Militer) agar efektif dan koordinasi murah dan mudah. Ini yang ingin didorong," kata Dahnil.

Lebih lanjut, eks juru bicara Prabowo-Sandi itu menambahkan, sejak awal dilantik, menhan ingin melakukan perubahan mendasar, salah satunya debirokratisasi.

"Supaya biaya pegawai tidak terlalu tinggi, setidaknya ada kontribusi meminimalisasi ini. Sampai detik ini belum ada keputusan penambahan kanwil atau tidak. (Menhan) Baru tiga bulan (menjabat), ada proses kajian, pahami apa yang diinginkan terkait kebijakan itu," ujar Dahnil.

https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/...bowo-mau-satukan-kanwil-kemenhan-dengan-kodam
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