Indonesia Defence Forum

[Zarvan]

Yes sis, that is a crazy move, but I believe China current leadership still has a good rational, so l still think the leadership will not give any chance for any superiority complex sufferer to direct China policy into their own sick plot that can lead China into a real political isolation.

By the way, I dont know that China really crossed our naval border ? Is it true or just disinformation made by another group ? I haven't heard that in our local media. I think if it is true, it should be informed to the press, so we can get more political support to improve our defense industry and military.

Man I was going through Wikipedia it says your Army has 233000 Soldiers man that is too low considering your area and population you should have at least an Army of 300000 @madokafc @MarveL

 

[MarveL]

Man I was going through Wikipedia it says your Army has 233000 Soldiers man that is too low considering your area and population you should have at least an Army of 300000 @madokafc @MarveL

You got the wrong data lad, current numbers of TNI troops today is around 470.000, eventhough this still not the ideal number yet.

When compared with the total area of Indonesia, one TNI soldier keeping an area of 5.79 square kilometers. Compared to its neighbour, Malaysia which securing an area of 4.12 square kilometers. Meanwhile, the Thai soldiers secure the 2.71 square kilometers. In Singapore, one soldier secures only 0.01 square kilometers.

Each of soldier protecting 722 Indonesian citizens. When compared with Malaysia, almost its half. Where, one Malaysian soldier, must maintain 310 people. In Thailand, a soldiers must protect 342 people and the soldiers of singapore had to protect 91 citizens.

The number of TNI troops will continue to be depreciated gradually. If currently numbers about 470,000 personnel, then in 2029 is projected to stay 300,000 personnel. Along with the shrinking number of military members, DoD military budget boosted.

To cover the gap "Quantity is Quality" then the military will push the enacment of Reserve Component. Reserve component members will be formed through a process of basic military training with the training standards to put out his basic ability to fight, mentally tough and high fighting spirit. Reserve Component is only active for a particular military threat (i.e.: facing the threat of war) and its mobilization and demobilization could only set by the President.

In 2007 the German military downsized from 495,000 personnel to 252.500 including the conscripts. Active Reserve Component personnel amounted to 2,350 of about 80,000, as a budget reduction efforts and improve the effectiveness.

 

[Zarvan]

You got the wrong data lad, current numbers of TNI troops today is around 470.000, eventhough this still not the ideal number yet.

When compared with the total area of Indonesia, one TNI soldier keeping an area of 5.79 square kilometers. Compared to its neighbour, Malaysia which securing an area of 4.12 square kilometers. Meanwhile, the Thai soldiers secure the 2.71 square kilometers. In Singapore, one soldier secures only 0.01 square kilometers.

Each of soldier protecting 722 Indonesian citizens. When compared with Malaysia, almost its half. Where, one Malaysian soldier, must maintain 310 people. In Thailand, a soldiers must protect 342 people and the soldiers of singapore had to protect 91 citizens.

The number of TNI troops will continue to be depreciated gradually. If currently numbers about 470,000 personnel, then in 2029 is projected to stay 300,000 personnel. Along with the shrinking number of military members, DoD military budget boosted.

To cover the gap "Quantity is Quality" then the military will push the enacment of Reserve Component. Reserve component members will be formed through a process of basic military training with the training standards to put out his basic ability to fight, mentally tough and high fighting spirit. Reserve Component is only active for a particular military threat facing the threat of war by military defense strategies, through mobilization and demobilization set by the President.

In 2007 the German military downsized from 495,000 personnel to 252.500 including conscripts. Active Reserve Component personnel amounted to 2,350 of about 80,000, as a budget reduction efforts and improve the effectiveness.

Sir I am talking about only Army not Air Force and Navy Sir your Army according to different websites is around 230000 Air Force and Navy is not included in this Sir

By the way pictures are awesome

 

[Nike]

@Kaan , we don't buy Ada class corvette we chose SIGMA class instead and buy Nahkoda Ragam class

 

[Indos]

Man I was going through Wikipedia it says your Army has 233000 Soldiers man that is too low considering your area and population you should have at least an Army of 300000 @madokafc @MarveL

We are focusing on the offensive infantry group called Raider and Marinir (Marine) in the mean time. These two groups will be launched first for massive offensive and can be deployed in a very short time. No need big army Today, just like USA invasion to Iraq was done by small group first, and then was followed by bigger group. More effective and deadly. If the war goes longer, we can use our reserves. We also have large number of soldiers in our army special force (kopasus)

Raider Group

Kopassus (Army special force)

Kopassus (Army special force)

Just ask any USA marine who has conducted training with our marine. In term of personal combat skill and stamina, our soldiers is much appreciated. But, we still need more hardware to make our military much stronger.

 

[Nike]

We are focusing on the offensive group called Raider and Marinir (Marine) in the mean time. These two groups will be launched first for massive offensive and can be deployed in a very short time. No need big army Today, just like USA invasion to Iraq was done by small group first, and then was followed by bigger group. More effective and deadly. If the war goes longer, we can use our reserves.


Raider Group

No no

TNI HQ command two Rapid Reaction Forces, one is Kostrad and two is Marine Corps

Kostrad right now has two division and supported with several brigades including Airborne Brigade (in which will be enlarged into division, thus make the third division of Kostrad). Kostrad itself has several armored battalion and mechanized infantry brigade and their own AA battalion to cover their movement. Kostrad right now numbering around 35.000 to 45.000 personnel. Kostrad is the most potent, technology proficient and have the largest firepower unit within the Army and have the most combat experience besides Marines Corps in Indonesia history.

Indonesian Marine Corps right now has two Pasmar (equivalent of small division comprises around 10.000 troops each) and several supported brigade units. They has modelling themselves around US Marine Corps Model with their mixed mobile brigade in which supported with armored, artillery and air cover in one brigade units. What made Indonesian Marine Corps special compared to Army forces is their preferences with Eastern made weapons like AK family Assault Rifles, 122 mm Sovyet Howitzer, BVP2 from Cheko, BDRK, RPK, RPD, RPG-7, Kornet ATGM, Konkurs ATGM, BMP-3F and so on. But that's not made the Marines allergic with Western made weapons they are using AMX-10C APC, and several western made weapons. Numbering around 30.000 to 40.000 fully armed, disciplined and trained troops, Indonesian Marines Corps is one of the most potent amphibious assault capable units in South East Asia. Those Marines HQ, itself has expressed if they wanna to expand their number and unit into three or four fully armed Divisions, numbering about 45000 to 60.000 troops.


And for the raider, the idea of Indonesian Army battalion raider itself is to give the Army territorial command units capable soldiers to tackle the enemy or any potential threat within their area of operation given minimal resources until the reinforcement or ( Rapid Reaction Forces) come around and turn the tide. Any Raider battalion has jungle warfare, mountain warfare and urban warfare specialization depend on the location they are located and besides their conventional roles they also can be used to wearer down the main enemy forces with their preference Fabian Strategy.

Just two cents from me

 

[Indos]

No no

TNI HQ command two Rapid Reaction Forces, one is Kostrad and two is Marine Corps

Yah, you are more knowledgeable than me in term of military stuff , thanks for explaining it,,,,,

 

[MarveL]

Yah, you are more knowledgeable than me in term of military stuff , thanks for explaining it,,,,,

btw how we should call her? Sis Maddog a.k.a "the hammer girl" instead or KFC?

-happy purple day-

 

[Zarvan]

We are focusing on the offensive infantry group called Raider and Marinir (Marine) in the mean time. These two groups will be launched first for massive offensive and can be deployed in a very short time. No need big army Today, just like USA invasion to Iraq was done by small group first, and then was followed by bigger group. More effective and deadly. If the war goes longer, we can use our reserves. We also have large number of soldiers in our army special force (kopasus)

Raider Group

Kopassus (Army special force)

Kopassus (Army special force)

Just ask any USA marine who has conducted training with our marine. In term of personal combat skill and stamina, our soldiers is much appreciated. But, we still need more hardware to make our military much stronger.

Sir Still USA Army is massive in size Sir their actives ground soldiers if combine their Naval Marine guys too is more than half a million and also Chinese number game will always remain important and you have massive area to defend and please give more details of units you just mentioned

 

[katarabhumi]

btw how we should call her? Sis Maddog a.k.a "the hammer girl" instead or KFC?

-happy purple day-

ah.. doyan TR juga ye?.. hekhehek..

Happy purple day to you too and to all Indonesian members here...

This is my first after many years of golput.. I usually sleep on election day but I gotta vote this time since my younger brother is running for people representative.

 

[Zarvan]

We are focusing on the offensive infantry group called Raider and Marinir (Marine) in the mean time. These two groups will be launched first for massive offensive and can be deployed in a very short time. No need big army Today, just like USA invasion to Iraq was done by small group first, and then was followed by bigger group. More effective and deadly. If the war goes longer, we can use our reserves. We also have large number of soldiers in our army special force (kopasus)

Raider Group

Kopassus (Army special force)

Kopassus (Army special force)

Just ask any USA marine who has conducted training with our marine. In term of personal combat skill and stamina, our soldiers is much appreciated. But, we still need more hardware to make our military much stronger.

Want more details about these groups and How much increase in number of soldiers is expected in your Armed Forces in Army and Air Force and Navy

 

[Indos]

btw how we should call her? Sis Maddog a.k.a "the hammer girl" instead or KFC?

-happy purple day-

"The hammer girl" is too deathly dude .... I like to call her sister though

Ha,ha, how come you put all of your hand on that ......

Yah, I also voted, and actually I always do it as a good citizen, at least it can maintain our democracy system ....

 

[katarabhumi]

Sir Still USA Army is massive in size Sir their actives ground soldiers if combine their Naval Marine guys too is more than half a million and also Chinese number game will always remain important and you have massive area to defend and please give more details of units you just mentioned

TNI has implemented "Zero Growth" policy where the number of recruits equals number of those who retire.

===

TNI To Boost Spending On Weapons: Minister Purnomo
The Jakarta Post Thursday, May 6, 2010
Dicky Christanto, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said Tuesday for the first time in years the military plans to spend more on revamping its weaponry than improving the welfare of its personnel.

The Defense Ministry is also aiming to gradually raise the defense budget from the current 0.9 percent to 1.5 percent of the country’s GDP by 2015, Purnomo said, adding the government began raising defense expenditure this year.

“We are hoping to reach the 1.5 percent target by 2014 or 2015”.

Indonesia’s GDP was about Rp 5,000 trillion (US$555 billion) in 2008, according to the Central Statistics Agency.

The government allocated about Rp 360 billion for defense spending this year. The ministry, according to Purnomo, would only spend Rp 152.9 billion to finance staff welfare programs.

“We will apply zero growth policy to our force — meaning we will recruit a number of men proportionate to the number that retire every year,” he told reporters.

The ministry, he added, would also implement a rightsizing policy, which would create more military commands (Kodam) without increasing personnel.

Purnomo said the Navy was now in talks on whether they should add another fleet to the existing two fleets; the West and East Navy Commands.

The plan to improve the weaponry system is part of the military’s efforts to maximize its essential minimum force designed to be able to safeguard the country’s territory in day to day basis.

The ministry, Purnomo said, would also begin to purchase more weapons from the domestic weapons industry.

“By implementing this policy, we could save more money on maintenance,” he said.

The ministry’s inspectorate general Vice Marshall Errys Heryyanto dismissed allegations that the military was planning to become more aggressive by revamping and purchasing more weapons.

“We are doing it in order to be able to safeguard the country’s vast territory. We have no intention of becoming a regional aggressor,” he said.

TNI To Boost Spending On Weapons: Minister Purnomo

===

Actually no one knows the exact number of our soldier except the TNI and DoD themselves. I personally don't believe the numbers in the report.. try multiply them by two.

 

[Nike]

TNI has implemented "Zero Growth" policy where the number of recruits equals number of those who retire.

===

TNI To Boost Spending On Weapons: Minister Purnomo
The Jakarta Post Thursday, May 6, 2010
Dicky Christanto, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said Tuesday for the first time in years the military plans to spend more on revamping its weaponry than improving the welfare of its personnel.

The Defense Ministry is also aiming to gradually raise the defense budget from the current 0.9 percent to 1.5 percent of the country’s GDP by 2015, Purnomo said, adding the government began raising defense expenditure this year.

“We are hoping to reach the 1.5 percent target by 2014 or 2015”.

Indonesia’s GDP was about Rp 5,000 trillion (US$555 billion) in 2008, according to the Central Statistics Agency.

The government allocated about Rp 360 billion for defense spending this year. The ministry, according to Purnomo, would only spend Rp 152.9 billion to finance staff welfare programs.

“We will apply zero growth policy to our force — meaning we will recruit a number of men proportionate to the number that retire every year,” he told reporters.

The ministry, he added, would also implement a rightsizing policy, which would create more military commands (Kodam) without increasing personnel.

Purnomo said the Navy was now in talks on whether they should add another fleet to the existing two fleets; the West and East Navy Commands.

The plan to improve the weaponry system is part of the military’s efforts to maximize its essential minimum force designed to be able to safeguard the country’s territory in day to day basis.

The ministry, Purnomo said, would also begin to purchase more weapons from the domestic weapons industry.

“By implementing this policy, we could save more money on maintenance,” he said.

The ministry’s inspectorate general Vice Marshall Errys Heryyanto dismissed allegations that the military was planning to become more aggressive by revamping and purchasing more weapons.

“We are doing it in order to be able to safeguard the country’s vast territory. We have no intention of becoming a regional aggressor,” he said.

TNI To Boost Spending On Weapons: Minister Purnomo

===

Actually no one knows the exact number of our soldier except the TNI and DoD themselves. I personally don't believe the numbers in the report.. try multiply them by two.

me to don;t believe too much about their official release about the total number of Army personnel. I got myself some data about efforts of DoD to build new formations of mechanized battalion or raider without liquidation of old infantry units. But lets that slide aside, we had more urgent conditions regarding of our Army formations and organizations.

And what kind of matter is what made me wonder ? We still had a lot of unnecessary formations within Koramil and Korem all the way used a lot of DoD budget used for their administration and bureaucratic fees along with their payroll fees. Basically they are just regular infantry units charged with Civilian task in New Order Style, they don't have proper basic annual training and drill, they don't have much firepower to be used as regular front line infantry units some member even got themselves old rifle and mortar like old model of M-16 and even AKs, and physically usually those soldiers who be charged with Babinsa tasks are old man Army personnel who usually waiting their Pension age. We need to reform those system ASAP.

TNI has implemented "Zero Growth" policy where the number of recruits equals number of those who retire.

===

TNI To Boost Spending On Weapons: Minister Purnomo
The Jakarta Post Thursday, May 6, 2010
Dicky Christanto, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said Tuesday for the first time in years the military plans to spend more on revamping its weaponry than improving the welfare of its personnel.

The Defense Ministry is also aiming to gradually raise the defense budget from the current 0.9 percent to 1.5 percent of the country’s GDP by 2015, Purnomo said, adding the government began raising defense expenditure this year.

“We are hoping to reach the 1.5 percent target by 2014 or 2015”.

Indonesia’s GDP was about Rp 5,000 trillion (US$555 billion) in 2008, according to the Central Statistics Agency.

The government allocated about Rp 360 billion for defense spending this year. The ministry, according to Purnomo, would only spend Rp 152.9 billion to finance staff welfare programs.

“We will apply zero growth policy to our force — meaning we will recruit a number of men proportionate to the number that retire every year,” he told reporters.

The ministry, he added, would also implement a rightsizing policy, which would create more military commands (Kodam) without increasing personnel.

Purnomo said the Navy was now in talks on whether they should add another fleet to the existing two fleets; the West and East Navy Commands.

The plan to improve the weaponry system is part of the military’s efforts to maximize its essential minimum force designed to be able to safeguard the country’s territory in day to day basis.

The ministry, Purnomo said, would also begin to purchase more weapons from the domestic weapons industry.

“By implementing this policy, we could save more money on maintenance,” he said.

The ministry’s inspectorate general Vice Marshall Errys Heryyanto dismissed allegations that the military was planning to become more aggressive by revamping and purchasing more weapons.

“We are doing it in order to be able to safeguard the country’s vast territory. We have no intention of becoming a regional aggressor,” he said.

TNI To Boost Spending On Weapons: Minister Purnomo

===

Actually no one knows the exact number of our soldier except the TNI and DoD themselves. I personally don't believe the numbers in the report.. try multiply them by two.

me to don;t believe too much about their official release about the total number of Army personnel. I got myself some data about efforts of DoD to build new formations of mechanized battalion or raider without liquidation of old infantry units. But lets that slide aside, we had more urgent conditions regarding of our Army formations and organizations.

And what kind of matter is what made me wonder ? We still had a lot of unnecessary formations within Koramil and Korem all the way used a lot of DoD budget used for their administration and bureaucratic fees along with their payroll fees. Basically they are just regular infantry units charged with Civilian task in New Order Style, they don't have proper basic annual training and drill, they don't have much firepower to be used as regular front line infantry units some member even got themselves old rifle and mortar like old model of M-16 and even AKs, and physically usually those soldiers who be charged with Babinsa tasks are old man Army personnel who usually waiting their Pension age. We need to reform those system ASAP.

 

[Indos]

First of all, at worst we have a border dispute, and nothing else.

The fact Indonesia is what it is, is not our fault. You guys control your fate not us. Whatever you think was disrespect was the simple and naked truth. You can argue for Indonesia if you like, but facts are facts.


HOWEVER, the killing of Chinese did take place by Indonesia before, regardless of what anybody says, it happened, everybody knows. If there should be no friendship it should have been that and not because of a war of words.

If we were to declare war on Indonesia over your atrocities, the international community would be okay with it. But we didn't, instead we bring trade and peace.



If you want respect earn it, we are still not there yet, but we are getting there. Nobody gets it for free, not us, not you.

1 (The killing during 1997) based on independence commission result = no killing or raping of Chinese ethnic. The human victims are actually native Indonesian, around 100 because of being trapped in a firing building.
2 (International community would be okay with it)= If you are a logic person, you will not think like that

Indonesian members has already put their time to explain it at other thread, so case is closed, and you as an individual is Indonesian haters since the very beginning. I will not hate Chinese people because of your thinking toward us.