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Indonesia Defence Forum

While it is true that many South Koreans have doubts about your government's KF-X/IF-X, I think it is also true that they do not want you to leave the program. In the meantime, this news is a somewhat positive sign. It shows that Indonesia wants to stay in the program. But what many SOKORs are worried about is whether Prabowo will be elected president in the next Indonesian elections, which will lead to an exit from the program as well as the current development. Personally, I don't think such an extreme situation will happen, but isn't he likely to be elected?

Indonesia participation in KFX/IFX is basically jeopardized by USA and weirdly many Indonesian fansboys want Indonesia to buy F15 EX.

The restriction Indonesian engineers have is more due to USA restriction to Indonesia participation inside KFX/IFX program. As we know KFX/IFX uses technology from US as offset after Korean buy around 45 F35.

This has been stated by Indonesian who has been inside the program like our former Air Force officer who participated during first phase of development 2011-2012 December. There is IFX thread in this Indonesian Defense Forum where you can see our side of the story where it is kept from Korean public who know nothing about the program and only want to blame Indonesian.

It makes Korean side that basically violate the deal in 2015 and thus make renegotiation happening since some Indonesians in the government dont like to see what happen during the second development phase (EMD 2016-2026). Of course the reason is USA restriction, not Korean side, but we start the development and deal before we face such hurdle. I have already known there will be a problem after South Korea chooses US companies as partner instead of European companies.

There is no such as problem during first development phase in 2011-2012 December that resulted in C 103 and C 200 design (with canard). Current C 109 design is refinement of C 103 design. There is no USA inside the KFX/IFX development until 2015. Indonesia is also patiently waiting the program when Korean side delay the program and even want to use single engine KFX-E made by Korean Aerospace instead of C 103 design with double engine and during that time has already been 5 generation fighter design.

We still need to pay 20 % of development cost despite such hurdle from US side where Korean is happily following US order. Is it fair for Indonesia ? Nevertheless, this program needs to be continued and Indonesian must do its own R&D research outside KFX/IFX program in order to master fighter technology by using our IFX program as vehicle (wahana) to achieve our long term goal.

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Prabowo IMO is unlikely to be Indonesian President. He could pass the first phase of election when the candidates are three, but when the second phase of Presidential election commence, Indonesians are very likely to choose the fresh and new leader like Anies Baswedan or Ganjar Pranowo.

Unlike Japanese, Indonesians are more favor on younger people. Many historic phase of our nation history shows young generation as leaders :

1. Soekarno raise to power in his early 40's
2. Indonesia independence movement shows young generation huge contribution, particularly university students (Soekarno, Muhammad Hatta, etc)
3. Soeharto raise to power in his early 40's
4. Our first Armed Force Commander (Indonesia Revolution), General Sudirman, become Armed Force Commander in his late 30's
5. Indonesia reformation (speed transition phase from authoritarian into democracy/1997-1998) shows young people (university students) as the main backbone of the political movement.

The composition of our people ( voters) is dominated by younger generations


Kasihan program SBY g mau dilanjutin Jokowi, kalo ada kekurangannya kan bisa dilanjut lain waktu, punya program mef juga ngejar gfp yg ntah apa kredibilitasnya. Sekian pamit undur jadi sr lagi
Indonesia has already made the deal in 2021 November that we will continue the program. Some cost share payment has been paid starting in 2022 and we will see what will happen when Korean will meet our Defense Ministry officer in June.
 
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Indonesia participation in KFX/IFX is basically jeopardized by USA and weirdly many Indonesian fansboys want Indonesia to buy F15 EX.

The restriction Indonesian engineers have is more due to USA restriction to Indonesia participation inside KFX/IFX program. As we know KFX/IFX uses technology from US as offset after Korean buy around 45 F35.

This has been stated by Indonesian who has been inside the program like our former Air Force officer who participated during first phase of development 2011-2012 December. There is IFX thread in this Indonesian Defense Forum where you can see our side of the story where it is kept from Korean public who know nothing about the program and only want to blame Indonesian.

It makes Korean side that basically violate the deal in 2015 and thus make renegotiation happening since some Indonesians in the government dont like to see what happen during the second development phase (EMD 2016-2026). Of course the reason is USA restriction, not Korean side, but we start the development and deal before we face such hurdle. I have already known there will be a problem after South Korea chooses US companies as partner instead of European companies.

There is no such as problem during first development phase in 2011-2012 December that resulted in C 103 and C 200 design (with canard). Current C 109 design is refinement of C 103 design. There is no USA inside the KFX/IFX development until 2015. Indonesia is also patiently waiting the program when Korean side delay the program and even want to use single engine KFX-E made by Korean Aerospace instead of C 103 design with double engine and during that time has already been 5 generation fighter design.

We still need to pay 20 % of development cost despite such hurdle from US side where Korean is happily following US order. Is it fair for Indonesia ? Nevertheless, this program needs to be continued and Indonesian must do its own R&D research outside KFX/IFX program in order to master fighter technology by using our IFX program as vehicle (wahana) to achieve our long term goal.

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Prabowo IMO is unlikely to be Indonesian President. He could pass the first phase of election when the candidates are three, but when the second phase of Presidential election commence, Indonesians are very likely to choose the fresh and new leader like Anies Baswedan or Ganjar Pranowo.

Unlike Japanese, Indonesians are more favor on younger people. Many historic phase of our nation history shows young generation as leaders :

1. Soekarno raise to power in his early 40's
2. Indonesia independence movement shows young generation huge contribution, particularly university students (Soekarno, Muhammad Hatta, etc)
3. Soeharto raise to power in his early 40's
4. Our first Armed Force Commander (Indonesia Revolution), General Sudirman, become Armed Force Commander in his late 30's
5. Indonesia reformation (speed transition phase from authoritarian into democracy/1997-1998) shows young people (university students) as the main backbone of the political movement.

The composition of our people ( voters) is dominated by younger generations
The delay in the program at that time was due to the fact that our lawmakers wanted to constantly verify that South Korea could really build this fighter, and I'm grateful that Indonesia didn't pull out of the program at that time.

The last article I saw was that South Korea was negotiating with the US for a broader technology transfer to Indonesia. But isn't it a bit naïve to think that all technology can be transferred and utilized by either Indonesia or South Korea? When I saw the article where Budi santoso said that 100% of the technology was transferred from South Korea, I wondered what the basis for this was. We'll have to see the actual contract to find out.
 
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The delay in the program at that time was due to the fact that our lawmakers wanted to constantly verify that South Korea could really build this fighter, and I'm grateful that Indonesia didn't pull out of the program at that time.

The last article I saw was that South Korea was negotiating with the US for a broader technology transfer to Indonesia. But isn't it a bit naïve to think that all technology can be transferred and utilized by either Indonesia or South Korea? When I saw the article where Budi santoso said that 100% of the technology was transferred from South Korea, I wondered what the basis for this was. We'll have to see the actual contract to find out.

The TOT is not about giving training or something like that.

Indonesian Aerospace is already quite mature, the complaint is because US restricts Indonesian participation during development phase on several key work packages like flight control system, system integration and so on......

The deal reach in 2014 compose of what Indonesia does as developer for KFX/IFX program. The US restriction make Indonesia participation doesnt meet the target. We are not there to get training. It is the experience in developing jet fighters that is the most valuable thing for any aerospace company

You guys will be pretty shock if you know exactly Indonesian contribution during first phase of development where there is no USA hand yet

Building a plane is not about installion of parts and put them together. There is working on software and others.
 
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So the development is almost complete and what we are supposed to do during the second development phase (EMD) is restricted for some key work packages and this is breaking the deal reach in 2014.

Then from there Indonesia starts not paying the payment. Regardless of that we still have around 114 design engineers stayed in Korea until 2020 March where CDR completion is in September 2019.

 
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Did I say you guys install and assemble airplane parts? I don't remember that....
Separately, I would like to know the exact scope of how much technology transfer is available to you within the TOT contract. I've heard that it's one thing for the US to provide us with technology, but it's another thing for you to have access to it and export it. I read an article in Indonesia that said that you have to build DTSS to have access to it, is this related to that?
Are you a government official in a position to know about such contracts?
 
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Did I say you guys install and assemble airplane parts? I don't remember that....
Separately, I would like to know the exact scope of how much technology transfer is available to you within the TOT contract. I've heard that it's one thing for the US to provide us with technology, but it's another thing for you to have access to it and export it. I read an article in Indonesia that said that you have to build DTSS to have access to it, is this related to that?
Are you a government official in a position to know about such contracts?



Indonesia is there to get the know how on key technology to build jet fighter by being part of the developers. We are not talking about AESA radars and others, but know how related to Aerospace companies technology scope.

Getting TOT like giving training, papers, etc is not really what Indonesian Aerospace seeking in the view of the engineers. It is to contribute during the development phase of flight control system, system intergration, etc that is being seek. Indonesian Aerospace for example has already been able to develop flight control system for N219 and wanting to develop its capability further by developing flight control system for fighter jet.

US restriction for Indonesia happens after deal is reached with Korea in 2014. Korea gets much much less restriction than Indonesia. So the program is really benefiting Korean Aerospace.

DTSS is viewed as intention to curb Indonesia participation for KFX/IFX key technology development. I mean building DTSS is not short, it must involve parliaments and others while KFX/IFX second development (EMD) keep going on without waiting Indonesia to build its own DTSS.

Any way, in Indonesian Aerospace, the design center for KFX/IFX program is restricted areas, mimicking Korean Aerospace KFX/IFX security measures. So it is pretty secure.
 
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Indonesia is there to get the know how on key technology to build jet fighter by being part of the developers. We are not talking about AESA radars and others, but know how related to Aerospace companies technology scope.

Getting TOT like giving training, papers, etc is not really what Indonesian Aerospace seeking in the view of the engineers. It is to contribute during the development phase of flight control system, system intergration, etc that is being seek. Indonesian Aerospace for example has already been able to develop flight control system for N219 and wanting to develop its capability further by developing flight control system for fighter jet.

US restriction for Indonesia happens after deal is reached with Korea in 2014. Korea gets much much less restriction than Indonesia. So the program is really benefiting Korean Aerospace.

DTSS is viewed as intention to curb Indonesia participation for KFX/IFX key technology development. I mean building DTSS is not short, it must involve parliaments and others while KFX/IFX second development (EMD) keep going on without waiting Indonesia to build its own DTSS.

Any way, in Indonesian Aerospace, the design center for KFX/IFX program is restricted areas, mimicking Korean Aerospace KFX/IFX security measures. So it is pretty secure.
Well, as I said before, we don't know the extent of the scope, so we don't know if access to core technologies is restricted. But my sense is that the 20% contribution is not going to give you that access to the core technology. I'll have to ask Korean experts who know more about this than me.

Technology like FLCS is something that you got from the U.S. in the third FX program, so I don't know if you're restricted. Is this something that you've heard from Indonesian engineers who are involved in the current development?

I need more information on DTSS. In the case of South Korea, DTSCM: Defense Technology &. Security Consultative Mechanism and the Defense Technology Strategy & Cooperation Group (DTSCG) to discuss technology transfer with the United States. As I understand it, DTSS will be no different from this. .....
 
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Well, as I said before, we don't know the extent of the scope, so we don't know if access to core technologies is restricted. But my sense is that the 20% contribution is not going to give you that access to the core technology. I'll have to ask Korean experts who know more about this

Duh, we are talking about 2014 deal who are related to work packages between Indonesia and Korea during EMD ( 2016-2026 ). There are already target what Indonesian should do during development on many work packages based on 2014 deal that is related to work shares between Indonesian and Korean engineers during KFX/IFX development. But end up restriction happen after the deal due to USA intervention. For several work packages related to key technologies, Indonesian engineers are restricted/ cannot work on those work packages.

Yes, what I said is based on what I heard from Indonesian KFX/ IFX engineer.
 
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First successful flight of KF-21 Prototype 5!
Ground take-off and landing scene revealed!

KF-21 #5th prototype first flight:azn:
 
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Defense Minister Prabowo Receives US Army Chief of Staff

Minister of Defense Prabowo Subianto witnessed the signing of the MoU PTDI & Jet Investment Group SÀRL

Minister of Defense Prabowo Subianto during a visit to the PT PAL Pier
 
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South Korea's KF-21 passes ‘combat assessment' to accelerate production​

16 MAY 2023

Prototype 5 for Indonesian Aerospace has had its maiden flight

by Jon Grevatt
Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) KF-21 fighter aircraft has passed a “provisional combat suitability evaluation”, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said on 16 May.

DAPA said the milestone – achieved following two years of trials – is intended to accelerate aircraft manufacturing ahead of the initial KF-21 production phase in 2024.

KAI's first KF-21 prototype was rolled out in April 2021 and had its maiden flight in July 2022.

According to DAPA, the provisional combat suitability evaluation has assessed factors such as the KF-21's durability, structural integrity, manoeuvrability, and performance – including its speed, combat radius, and landing distance – in more than 200 ground and flight tests in the past two years.

The evaluation also assessed the performance of key systems onboard the aircraft including avionics, weapons, and its locally developed active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

 
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#4 congrats first tandem "Boramae" flight to our test pilot Col. Muhammad "Mammoth" Sugiyanto
 
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Iran President visits Indonesia for 2 days

 
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Met with Indonesian Parliamentary Speaker, Puan Maharani

 
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