Indonesia Defence Forum

[182]

Better resolution picture, KF21 second prototype maiden flight

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KF-21 got it right There's no ID flag in this case

Nov 24, 2022
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no problemo, the 2nd bird prototype maiden flight, done weeks ago with our flag uncovered lol.

 

[182]

French Defence Minister Sebastien Lecornu meets Indonesian counterpart in Jakarta

Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto holds welcoming ceremony for visiting French counterpart Sebastien Lecornu in Jakarta.

 

[182]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595669607607853056

four f-35A RAAF landed in bali, indonesia.
refuelling matter before continue trip to tindal ab

4 F-35A & 1 C-130 Hercules lead by WGCDR Martin Parker of RAAF & IAF pilots

 

[Indos]

no problemo, the 2nd bird prototype maiden flight, done weeks ago with our flag uncovered lol.

This is the 5th prototype for Indonesia. I suspect there will be another ceremony for this prototype and there will be several Indonesian high officials invited for the ceremony.

I think they cover the Indonesian flag due to protect the Indonesian flag from any thing, this shows Korean respect on Indonesia and carefully care the flag cleanness before the possible ceremony take place. The flag, I think, being put on the body using sticker and they will release the sticker when the ceremony will be held, so not releasing the sticker sooner is mean to protect it from anything that can make the flag not look perfect and clean during the possible ceremony event (IFX roll out ceremony).

 

[Indos]

Airspace Review uses source from South Korean fanboys FB page talking about the fitht prototype lol.

I have to give clarity here. The fifth prototype is only given to Indonesian Aerospace after the program gets type certificate, expected in late 2026 or beginning of 2027 inshaAllah.

We already know that there are several Indonesian test pilots there plus Indonesian engineering team and they are there to test the prototype in Korea. It is better to do the centralized testing in South Korea rather than bringing the plane into Indonesian Aerospace.

Previously we should make the prototype in Indonesia, but since government hasnt given the money to complete the IFX production line in Indonesia, so the prototype is built in Korea, but I think it is a better plan to fasten the development program.

I have already explained it Yesterday here

KFX/IFX News and Development

Finally with the gears up ...

defence.pk

 

[Pakde Wibu]

 

[Indos]

Here my respond on the video

Making airplane consist of 2 part which is design phase+ production ( aerostructure parts + system integration + assembling ) + Testing phase

That Korean engineers mentioned about 40 Indonesian engineers that are currently in Korea. They are in majority are technicians who are now in Korea to learn about production of fighter planes where we have to acknowledge that Indonesian Aerospace doesnt have much experience on it, despite Indonesian Aerospace is involved in refurbish and upgrade program of Indonesian F16 A/B in Falcon Star program. They are sent to Korea since August 2021. The news can be seen in KFX/IFX thread, I also put the photo of them on the thread, they are young and look like sending young technicians are intended for regeneration program.

The number should be around 100 in the end of 2021 but we know the number is a compromise since defence minister hasnt pay their financial obligation during that time. There is no budget as well to send management team to Korea as before we had them there. It is Defense Ministry program by the way so the budget should be from them.

Korean has experience in fighter production

Korean has made American fighter like F16 for many years, it is right. Korean has huge experience in production of the fighter aircraft. In term of manufacturing the fighter planes we are indeed learning from Korean. And from the technicians we send to Korea they are young ones, which means we send them to study there.

In term of design of T50 Golden Eagle/ FA50 they get huge helped from Lockheed Martin and according to Indonesian design engineer that I know who are involved in KF21 program, Korean buy Lockheed Martin design on FA50, so basically the design is the work of LM design engineers. Of course Korean engineers are also involved in the program but I believe they are there to learn. That is what I know from Indonesian engineer that I know that have also been in Korea. As we know, LM can also manufacture T50 Golden Eagle in USA as they are proposing it before to be inducted into US Air Force where the tender winner is Boeing.

Design phase

For design phase Indonesian Aerospace is reported to have 114 Indonesian design engineers there as July 2019 which is reported by Korean media Yonhap in October 2019. Indonesian design engineers went back home in March 2020, after design phase is completed in September 2019.

Indonesian Aerospace has already worked for KF21 program since the start of program (Technology Development Phase) in 2011 that also produce 2 design which is one of them (C103) has become basic design for KF21. C 109 is a refinement of C103 design. During first development phase there are only ADD Korea and Indonesian Aerospace + ITB (one of Indonesian state university) + some Indonesian Airforce pilots.

Program KFX/IFX Dilanjutkan, Pemerintah Diminta Segera Memilih Desain

Angkasa Online - Majalah Aviasi dan Militer

web.archive.org

11:49 October 07, 2019

"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.

Last month, DAPA confirmed that the design for the combat jet met all military requirements, allowing the project to go on to the next phase of constructing a prototype.

Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...

en.yna.co.kr

-------------------------------------------------------

The design completed in 2012 December (Before KAI Korea and Lockheed Martin join the program since 2016)

2 Basic design of KFX/IFX C 100 and C 200 posted by credible South Korean Defense related blog, Naver in 2012.

Compare with the real plane

More about what happen during First Phase of development

Program KFX/IFX Dilanjutkan, Pemerintah Diminta Segera Memilih Desain

Angkasa Online - Majalah Aviasi dan Militer

web.archive.org

Transfer of technology

Indonesian Aerospace is an airframer, similar like Boeing and Airbus, they dont make core technology like radar system and others, so in term of TOT it should be related to something related to airframer and for this KF21/IFX program it is very clear that TOT is about the airframe as KF21/IFX used advanced airframe. Here we can see in this

About Data

All of testing data will be shared to Indonesia, so it is not really a problematic to have the fifth prototype tested in Korea with Indonesian test pilots and some engineers that have already been there. Data related to system integration and system upgrade will also be shared. But of course with how Indonesian government behave which its payment contribution makes Korean needs to be careful and dont just give all the data before the payment is completed which is reasonable.

What we can learn from the interview

The interview is conducted 3 months ago before Indonesia restart the payment again around October-November this year as reported by Yonhap and other credible Korean media publication. It is for the consumption of Korean public who has reasonable resentment toward Indonesia government that is not serious on the payment commitment.

The interview in my opinion is intended to calm Korean public over possible Indonesian government never paid the cost until the development is over. So basically there is tendency of the Korean program manager to calm Korean public (who are not Aerospace engineers) over the possible Indonesian pulling out the program and he also try to make Korean public tolerate the present of Indonesian engineers amid Indonesian hasnt paid its financial contribution for almost 3 years.

More about Indonesia participation in KF21/IFX program

IFX Indonesian Fighter Experiment (KF21/IFX program)

This is thread about KF21/IFX program with Indonesia perspective and Indonesian media coverage using only credible media sources. There will be IFX prototype (KF21 prototype 5) being launched soon inshaAllah, so this thread will likely discuss Indonesian KF21 version. IFX prototype will be...

defence.pk

 

[Super Falcon]

Scorpene submarines on the Indonesian menu too

 

[Indos]

Scorpene submarines on the Indonesian menu too

Indonesia planning minister has approved Scorpene acquisition for one submarine in 2022 Green Book and two submarine in 2023 Blue book. But now lets Finance Minister decide, the ball is now in her.

While both F15 EX and FREEM acqusition havent been passing the Minister of Planning approval yet, which I hope they both shouldnt be passed. Too expensive and cannot face our future challenge while we have already had KF21/IFX program going on and PT PAL and Babcock cooperation with their frigates design (Arrowhead).

 

[Super Falcon]

Indonesia planning minister has approved Scorpene acquisition for one submarine in 2022 Green Book and two submarine in 2023 Blue book. But now lets Finance Minister decide, the ball is now in her.

While both F15 EX and FREEM acqusition havent been passing the Minister of Planning approval yet, which I hope they both shouldnt passed. Too expensive and cannot face our future challenge.

Why not than Chinese jet here or F 16 Block 70

 

[Indos]

Why not than Chinese jet here or F 16 Block 70

Nope, China is our possible threat, the only country in our region that become our threat considering their superpower status and our dispute in SCS.

10 of our F 16 A/B has been undergoing refurbished and upgraded program (6 planes have already been refurbished and upgraded so far). Planning Ministry has approved another 23 F 16 C/D upgrade (waiting Finance Minister approval). Sukhoi and Hawk will be refurbished and upgrade (both Planning Minister and Finance Minister have agreed), while we are going to buy 12 -14 second hand Mirage 2000-5 from Qatar (It has been approved).

Planning Minister and Finance Minister also only approve another 12 Rafale to complete it into 1 squadron.

If you see them all, it is all interim and stop gap measure before we are manufacturing KF21/IFX starting in 2027/2028 inshaAllah.

 

[Super Falcon]

Nope, China is our possible threat, the only country in our region that become our threat considering their superpower status and our dispute in SCS.

10 of our F 16 A/B has been undergoing refurbished and upgraded program (6 planes have already been refurbished and upgraded so far). Planning Ministry has approved another 23 F 16 C/D upgrade (waiting Finance Minister approval). Sukhoi and Hawk will be refurbished and upgrade (both Planning Minister and Finance Minister have agreed), while we are going to buy second hand Mirage 2000-5 from Qatar (It has been approved).

Planning Minister and Finance Minister also only approve another 12 Rafale to complete it into 1 squadron.

If you see them all, it is all interim and stop gap measure before we are manufacturing KF21/IFX starting in 2027/2028 inshaAllah.

Agreed if if you choose them as your enemy today or tomorrow they will be next super power in region other major countries won't get much effect once china rule this region but they make sure Indonesia Vietnam and other small nation suffer more due to helping USA better save that day and be a part of future ruler and make same MOU with them

 

[Indos]

Agreed if if you choose them as your enemy today or tomorrow they will be next super power in region other major countries won't get much effect once china rule this region but they make sure Indonesia Vietnam and other small nation suffer more due to helping USA better save that day and be a part of future ruler and make same MOU with them

We never see them as enemy, but possible threat. We and China are friend. But it is reasonable to be careful and prepare for the worst. We also should be preparing another possible embargo from US and Western nations that maybe impossible for now due to power games of US vs China in the region, but who knows 20-30 years from now..........

That is why I am very pro program like KF21/IFX and other related program conducted by our local defense industry.

As China quote

 

[Super Falcon]

We never see them as enemy, but possible threat. We and China are friend. But it is reasonable to be careful and prepare for the worst. We also should be preparing another possible embargo from US and Western nations that maybe impossible for now due to power games of US vs China in the region, but who knows 20-30 years from now..........

That is why I am very pro program like KF21/IFX and other related program conducted by our local defense industry.

As China quote

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Sir if you buy a weapons from Chinese enemies they think you are allies of them as India so better avoid such systems which won't work if you need to fight against other us ally

 

[Indos]

Sir if you buy a weapons from Chinese enemies they think you are allies of them as India so better avoid such systems which won't work if you need to fight against other us ally

Indonesia also buy China weapons like some Shorad and UCAV MALE CH 4. We have 6 CH4 and another acquisition have been approved by Minister of Planning, but not yet approved by Minister of Finance.