Indonesia Defence Forum

[Indos]

The Strategic Impact of Indonesian KF-21s


On April 9, a prototype of an advanced multi-role combat jet, the KF-21 Boramae (“young hawk” in Korean) was introduced by South Korea with President Moon Jae-in and Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto in attendance. While it is clear that Seoul’s decision to develop an indigenous fighter jet is driven by desires for defense industry self-sufficiency, along with national pride, Prabowo’s presence signifies Jakarta’s commitment to acquiring the KF-21, thereby further diversifying Indonesia’s air force fleet to limit reliance on any one foreign supplier. The bulk of Indonesian warplanes currently come from the United States and Russia.

https://thediplomat.com/2021/04/the-strategic-impact-of-indonesian-kf-21s/

The writer maybe only think that we just invested the money there without sending any engineers and dream to build the plane by our own. KF 21 for Indonesia is also meant to reach independency some day and also national pride, same like Korean ones. It is not merely about acquisition.

This important point that writer doesnt understand. It is because most writer just look on Wikipedia to understand the program and doesnt really want to spend much time to understand the program by using better source.

Wikipedia is not a good source and I am still being banned there just because I edit the page and said there are 114 Indonesian engineers participating on the design which is stated by Korean DAPA official.

The Wikipedia page only show Indonesia financial contribution, it is why many so called analyst will make mislead writing about the program, at least they should learn from KFX/IFX sticky thread in this forum.

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Number of Indonesian engineers (designers) as of July 2019


"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.

Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...

en.yna.co.kr

They have come back to Indonesia in March 2020 where the design has been completed in around the end of 2019. PDR meeting is in September 2019.

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Just see how Indonesia comment on the YT channel, it is not merely about acquisition and has gained huge support from Indonesian people.

These are just 4 channels, there are many YT channel show the launch of the plane with hundreds thousand Indonesian viewers on each popular YT channel, not talking about all mainstream media YT channel and online news that cover the event. It will be viral as the viewers will put the photo/news of the plane on their FB page with Indonesian flag on it and talk about this to their friends and families. It now has political factor already.

 

[MarveL]

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Saweran (crowdfunding) for the sub?

 

[Indos]

Indonesia asks for S. Korea's support to cover tech gap in joint fighter project

Defense 16:24 April 28, 2021

By Choi Soo-hyang

SEOUL, April 28 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia has asked South Korea to help its engineers involved in a joint fighter jet development project catch up with the technological progress made while they were away back home over coronavirus concerns, the defense ministry said Wednesday.

Indonesia is a partner for South Korea's 8.8 trillion won (US$7.9 billion) project to develop its first homegrown supersonic combat plane, though Jakarta has stopped making payments for the 20 percent of the total development cost it had promised to shoulder.

Indonesian engineers had been participating in the development in South Korea, but they returned home in March last year amid the coronavirus pandemic. South Korean engineers continued with the development and unveiled the jet's first prototype earlier this month.

The ministry said Indonesia reaffirmed its commitment to the project during its Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto's visit to South Korea to attend the rollout ceremony, after its failure to make payments gave rise to speculation that the country could quit the program.

"Indonesia welcomed proposals made by South Korea to boost the two countries' defense cooperation and expressed hope for South Korea's support to help Indonesian officials catch up with the technology gap in the KF-21/IF-X joint development project," the ministry said a report to the parliament.

Possible cooperation includes the provision of unused military supplies to Indonesia, the ministry said.

"President Joko Widodo himself agreed to the continuation of the KF-21/IF-X business, and the defense minister has also expressed willingness to do his best for the success of the project," the ministry said.

The joint work is expected get back on track in months, officials said, with the two sides pushing to hold the next round of negotiations on sharing the development cost in the first half.

The two countries launched negotiations on the fighter jet project in 2018 after Indonesian President Joko Widodo sought to adjust his country's burden, citing financial difficulties. They last held negotiations in September 2020.

The arms procurement agency said the KF-21 will undergo various ground tests starting next month.

The first flight test is scheduled for 2022, with the entire development set to be completed by 2026.

scaaet@yna.co.kr

Indonesia asks for S. Korea's support to cover tech gap in joint fighter project | Yonhap News Agency

By Choi Soo-hyang SEOUL, April 28 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia has asked South Korea to help it...

en.yna.co.kr

 

[sahureka2]

Indonesia has accepted China's offer to help lift the wreckage of KRI Nanggala (402). China has dispatched three ships: -Rescue Vessel Yongxingdao (863) -Deep-Sea Research Vessel Tan Suo 2 -Tug Boat Nantuo (185)

https://m.liputan6.com/amp/4547046/...at-kri-nanggala-402?__twitter_impression=true

 

[182]

KRI CAKRA 401, visited by Pres. Soeharto years ago

major overhaul by pt pal,

KRI Cakra 401-29 April 2021

 

[Being-Art]

KRI CAKRA 401, visited by Pres. Soeharto years ago

major overhaul by pt pal,
View attachment 741112

KRI Cakra 401-29 April 2021

KRI 401 currently still docking, not overhauled yet. While KRI 402, currently on eternal patrol, underwent the last overhaul in 2012 in South Korea

 

[Whizzack]

KRI 401 currently still docking, not overhauled yet. While KRI 402, currently on eternal patrol, underwent the last overhaul in 2012 in South Korea

What are the chances 401 will ever be put to sea again...? I believe it was already in a worse shape compared to 402..? At this rate 401 will probably end up on eternal docking...

Harimau MT vs Leopard MBT... Even though the Pindad designer keep on claiming that the Harimau is a clean sheet design, I still can't shake the feeling that it's actually just a modified Turkish IFV design... The high profile hull is such a giveaway of it's design heritage...

I believe a proper Medium / Light Tank (not of modified IFV design) should look more like the below Tanks :

Chinese VT-5 Light Tank

US Army Mobile Protected Firepower

 

[Being-Art]

What are the chances 401 will ever be put to sea again...? I believe it was already in a worse shape compared to 402..? At this rate 401 will probably end up on eternal docking...

View attachment 741371

Harimau MT vs Leopard MBT... Even though the Pindad designer keep on claiming that the Harimau is a clean sheet design, I still can't shake the feeling that it's actually just a modified Turkish IFV design... The high profile hull is such a giveaway of it's design heritage...

I believe a proper Medium / Light Tank (not of modified IFV design) should look more like the below Tanks :

Chinese VT-5 Light Tank
View attachment 741372

US Army Mobile Protected Firepower
View attachment 741373

Yep, 401 has worse conditions compared to 402

 

[Mohamed Bin Tughlaq]

Indonesia asks for S. Korea's support to cover tech gap in joint fighter project

Defense 16:24 April 28, 2021

View attachment 738141
By Choi Soo-hyang

SEOUL, April 28 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia has asked South Korea to help its engineers involved in a joint fighter jet development project catch up with the technological progress made while they were away back home over coronavirus concerns, the defense ministry said Wednesday.

Indonesia is a partner for South Korea's 8.8 trillion won (US$7.9 billion) project to develop its first homegrown supersonic combat plane, though Jakarta has stopped making payments for the 20 percent of the total development cost it had promised to shoulder.

Indonesian engineers had been participating in the development in South Korea, but they returned home in March last year amid the coronavirus pandemic. South Korean engineers continued with the development and unveiled the jet's first prototype earlier this month.

The ministry said Indonesia reaffirmed its commitment to the project during its Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto's visit to South Korea to attend the rollout ceremony, after its failure to make payments gave rise to speculation that the country could quit the program.

"Indonesia welcomed proposals made by South Korea to boost the two countries' defense cooperation and expressed hope for South Korea's support to help Indonesian officials catch up with the technology gap in the KF-21/IF-X joint development project," the ministry said a report to the parliament.

Possible cooperation includes the provision of unused military supplies to Indonesia, the ministry said.

"President Joko Widodo himself agreed to the continuation of the KF-21/IF-X business, and the defense minister has also expressed willingness to do his best for the success of the project," the ministry said.

The joint work is expected get back on track in months, officials said, with the two sides pushing to hold the next round of negotiations on sharing the development cost in the first half.

The two countries launched negotiations on the fighter jet project in 2018 after Indonesian President Joko Widodo sought to adjust his country's burden, citing financial difficulties. They last held negotiations in September 2020.

The arms procurement agency said the KF-21 will undergo various ground tests starting next month.

The first flight test is scheduled for 2022, with the entire development set to be completed by 2026.

scaaet@yna.co.kr

Indonesia asks for S. Korea's support to cover tech gap in joint fighter project | Yonhap News Agency

By Choi Soo-hyang SEOUL, April 28 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia has asked South Korea to help it...

en.yna.co.kr

I am hearing that Block 3 will be the best version. I think Indonesia shouldn't waste it's time and immediately go into that.. Air-superiority in the region is crucial and this will provide air-superiority to Indonesia over everyone

 

[Whizzack]

I am hearing that Block 3 will be the best version. I think Indonesia shouldn't waste it's time and immediately go into that.. Air-superiority in the region is crucial and this will provide air-superiority to Indonesia over everyone

Need to learn to walk before you can run... Even Block 1 is currently still in development... It will be years before Block 3 will be available... We will take the time to learn advanced fighter production and manufacture in the meantime...

 

[Mohamed Bin Tughlaq]

Need to learn to walk before you can run... Even Block 1 is currently still in development... It will be years before Block 3 will be available... We will take the time to learn advanced fighter production and manufacture in the meantime...

Yes ofcourse take your time but don't over take your time because the world may not give you that much time

 

[Indos]

Yes ofcourse take your time but don't over take your time because the world may not give you that much time

The main thing is that Indonesia will likely become the user of STEALTH fighters quite soon compared to other Asian countries. Singapore for instant will get their 4 F 35 in around 2028 and they are doing assessment first before ordering in bulk. KF or IF 21 block 1 look like upgradable to block 2 with modular belly section with IWB

And it will likely Indonesia is going to buy them a lot, really alot, around 200 IF 21 planes at minimum by seeing our economic projection and the need to do power balance with China in SEA region.

 

[dr.knowhow]

I am hearing that Block 3 will be the best version. I think Indonesia shouldn't waste it's time and immediately go into that.. Air-superiority in the region is crucial and this will provide air-superiority to Indonesia over everyone

Block 3 isn't even official as of yet. The development plan with "block 3" of KF-X was scrapped around 2014~2015 when the system development actually started. Since then it was restructured into Block 1 and Block 2.

Currently the affiliates under DoD regarding the KF-X program are researching about concrete needs and plans on how to improve KF-21 after the block 2. An improved variant would probably be called a "block 3" so we're just calling it that way. More information would be made public after the second half of this year.

Most of the technologies required to make KF-21/IF-X an actual 5th generation fighter jet in block 3 are currently under preliminary technology development phase as well. If the likes of KAI, ADD, Hanwha and LIG already had those technologies in hand, they would have just went straight away to a full blown 5th generation fighter jet from the get go

The "block 3" KF-21/IF-Xs are envisioned as a replacement for the KF-16Vs after the mid 2030s so until around mid 2030s we wouldn't be seeing any block 3 aircrafts soon.

 

[dr.knowhow]

The main thing is that Indonesia will likely become the user of STEALTH fighters quite soon compared to other Asian countries. Singapore for instant will get their 4 F 35 in around 2028 and they are doing assessment first before ordering in bulk. KF or IF 21 block 1 look like upgradable to block 2 with modular belly section with IWB

And it will likely Indonesia is going to buy them a lot, really alot, around 200 IF 21 planes at minimum by seeing our economic projection and the need to do power balance with China in SEA region.

I've got to tell you that the block 2 of the KF-21/IF-X would not feature any IWBs. At least according to the current plan. It is a major software update including radar mode updates for the air to surface missions like the GMTI mode or more advanced SAR modes and weapons integration of the anti surface weapons like the ALCM. That's why it only takes 2 years(2026~2028) after the completion of block 1 in 2026. IWBs would come afterwards, probably in block 3 when they develop a fighter to replace the KF-16Vs.

Block 2 aircrafts would be no slouch, but they are still essentially F-5 and older F-16 PBU replacements on the side of ROKAF. Block 3 will be the real deal because currently KF-16s are the backbone of ROKAF combat air fleet. ROKAF wouldn't be willing to replace them in 2030s/40s with a half assed fighter jet. Some of the technologies that are made public, which are known to be under development for future implication on KF-21/IF-X seems very promising as well. So I'll say we'll need to wait quite a while.

Structurally speaking, the Block 2 aircrafts should theoretically be able to get an upgrade to have IWB installed. Problem is that installing IWB on a F-22 looking jet doesn't mean it automatically becomes 5th gen.

A true 5th gen fighter needs dedicated CNI system as well as EW suite that meets the 5th gen standard. I'll refrain from actually listing what those are since it will make my post prohibitively long but I guess you get my point.

Apart from the improvements of the system itself, all the sensors and antennas, as well as other mechanical parts starting from the gun to radome, panels, inlet boundary layer diverter, engine nozzle, etc etc, as you would know, should either be masked off, saw toothed or made conformal. I'm not so sure if those kind of alteration could be done to the pre-existing block 2 aircrafts. If not, that would mean that the block 2 aircrafts could only be improved as much as a RO-LO aircrafts, not VLO aircrafts.

Don't be depresses though, as that's still a substantial improvement in RCS, as well as freedom of operation as that would mean that not only the BVRAAMs, which were previously semi recessed, but also other air to surface munitions like bombs or glide munitions to be armed internally. As we know glide bombs like SPEAR and SDBs are getting more and more capable, thus even going as far as SEAD mission capable just like the SPEAR EW. If SPEAR EW like munition gets integrated for the KF-21 it would be quite a plus to have IWB despite not being 5th gen as IWB would already provide better survivability against adversary SAMs in a SEAD mission for example. The Koreans are planning to develop an AARGM-esque anti radiation munition alongside HTS like target acquisition system, although I'm not sure if they would make it fit in the IWB.

Other improvements like MUM-T with UCAVs would be able to be implemented on block 2 as well since block 2 of KF-21/IF-X already uses IMA mission computer and a SDR suite and ROKAF seems to be planning to do just that. That flying wing UCAV which I've showed you a while ago would be operating alongside KF-21 and is planned to be developed by mid-late 2020s.

As a development partner Indonesia would probably be able to integrate or ask to integrate (depending on if the Koreans share the whole source code with the Indonesians) some of their own system as well as munitions I suspect and maybe it would be able for KAI and Hanwha to integrate Indonesian UCAV into the IF-X MUM-T system if they develop one in the future.


Overall to sum it up, no, there will initially be no IWBs for the block 2 but maybe it would be able to get one when the IWB is actually developed for the "block 3" aircrafts. Some of the 5th gen feature may not be able to be implemented on pre-existing block 2 aircrafts but MUM-T feature will be.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

#BridgesofFriendship Enhancing #Interoperability & strengthening #Maritime cooperation with friends #IndianNavy ship #INSSharda and #IndonesianNavy’s Corvettee KRI Sultan Hasanuddin, undertook Passage Exercise in #ArabianSea.
@_TNIAL_
@SpokespersonMoD
@DefenceMinIndia

Impressive Corevette, the crew complement is really great at just 80 as per wiki, indicates very high automation levels
The Indian Navy OPV, INS Sharada despite displacing similar weight, needs approximately twice the crew complement.(Not Apples to Apples but still interesting)