Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

And this Americanized BR

 

[HellFireIndo]

So which one would do? A330 or KC-46? while Poseidon is beyond doubted tho

 

[Fl0gger]

Dirgahayu TNI ke 75

 

[umigami]

So which one would do? A330 or KC-46? while Poseidon is beyond doubted tho

I'll take MRTT of course. KC46 is just too problematic.

 

[Logam42]

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And this Americanized BR
View attachment 676096

On what occasion were these photos taken? Border patrol?

 

[nametag]

I'll take MRTT of course. KC46 is just too problematic.

Agree, especially when the USAF (originally atleast) prefer MRTT it's a no brainer

 

[Chestnut]

The KC-46 won because Boeing offered a fixed priced contract for the Pegasus, essentially low-balling Airbus.

 

[¿Por qué?]

You are forgetting the real question here ...
How about her submerge endurance ?? That the real deal . Without atleast weekly time of submerge endurance all of those specc are meaningless in our theatre of operation .

Why do you need submarine endurance in a tonnage war in our own shallow waters? The mission profile is basically hit-and-run.

You start from your base, find some china's cargo ships in Malacca straits or Lombok straits, blast them off with your torpedoes, and then go home. That's all.

All we need to build is just one single mini-base around the narrow part of Malacca strait.

Btw, you have to change you mindset when judging midget sub. You don't task midget sub to execute standard sub job. You don't task midget sub to patrol from Surabaya to Natuna.

I clearly stated about the tonnage war capability when talking about midget sub. Just focus on the straits with huge numbers of cargo ships, or strategic cargo ships (like oil tanker).

Maintenance-wise, midget sub is designed to have a lot easier operability and maintainability than the usual sub.

You can basically argue that midget sub is not really a naval vessel. It's more akin to an aircraft, but deployed underwater.

Due to its limited size, when not in operation, midget sub can be stored dry in a hangar and launched for mission only.

This feature facilitates maintenance, increases the longevity of the craft, and, more importantly, makes it less detectable by air recognition.

 

[Ravager]

Why do you need submarine endurance in a tonnage war in our own shallow waters? The mission profile is basically hit-and-run.

You start from your base, find some china's cargo ships in Malacca straits or Lombok straits, blast them off with your torpedoes, and then go home. That's all.

All we need to build is just one single mini-base around the narrow part of Malacca strait.

Btw, you have to change you mindset when judging midget sub. You don't task midget sub to execute standard sub job. You don't task midget sub to patrol from Surabaya to Natuna.

I clearly stated about the tonnage war capability when talking about midget sub. Just focus on the straits with huge numbers of cargo ships, or strategic cargo ships (like oil tanker).

Maintenance-wise, midget sub is designed to have a lot easier operability and maintainability than the usual sub.

You can basically argue that midget sub is not really a naval vessel. It's more akin to an aircraft, but deployed underwater.

Due to its limited size, when not in operation, midget sub can be stored dry in a hangar and launched for mission only.

This feature facilitates maintenance, increases the longevity of the craft, and, more importantly, makes it less detectable by air recognition.

By tonnage we are talking about space availibility . Which is translate into more quarter , provision and munition . And energy density/more battery . Most of war time was spent on idling for opportunities . If you spent your battery capacity with 3 day trip to reach your destination within 1 week of operating battery capacity you get what ?? 1 day of war time fighting ?
Why it's so hard to understand ?? What we need is medium and ocean going sub capabilities not some midget that absorb the allready limited budget without any meaningfull capabilities to offer .
When we reach the technological maturity on such UGV concept i could accept your idea but today ?? Wasting our limited resources on whim ?? At the end of the day if you have the platform then you spent the money for the rest of her infrastructure and maintenance expenses too

 

[NEKONEKO]

Interesting idea about building midget submarine base in malacca strait. Rather than long range patrol, midget submarine should just get assigned to some specific area to wander around waiting for prey, unlike kriegsmarine that playing cat and mouse game with the convoy that cross the Atlantic ocean, midget submarine in malacca strait just need to use camping strategy, wait and snipe.

But with our limited budget we should focus on getting 12 submarine first.

 

[Nike]

Interesting idea about building midget submarine base in malacca strait. Rather than long range patrol, midget submarine should just get assigned to some specific area to wander around waiting for prey, unlike kriegsmarine that playing cat and mouse game with the convoy that cross the Atlantic ocean, midget submarine just need to use camping strategy, wait and snipe.

But with our limited budget we should focus on getting 12 submarine first.

The thing is Navy only interested on midget Submarine for Special Op purpose, infiltration, bring limited supply for Spec op units behind enemy shore line and the likes. For combat purpose they have limited use with limited cargoe they can carry (sea mines, torp and so on) with limited combat radius range.

 

[¿Por qué?]

By tonnage we are talking about space availibility . Which is translate into more quarter , provision and munition . And energy density/more battery . Most of war time was spent on idling for opportunities . If you spent your battery capacity with 3 day trip to reach your destination within 1 week of operating battery capacity you get what ?? 1 day of war time fighting ?
Why it's so hard to understand ?? What we need is medium and ocean going sub capabilities not some midget that absorb the allready limited budget without any meaningfull capabilities to offer .
When we reach the technological maturity on such UGV concept i could accept your idea but today ?? Wasting our limited resources on whim ?? At the end of the day if you have the platform then you spent the money for the rest of her infrastructure and maintenance expenses too

Hmmmm, I don't think you understand what tonnage war is. Just a quick glance at the Battle of the Atlantic info page will give you some idea.

Look, to target cargo ships in the narrow part of Malacca strait will only require our sub to travel around 80km - 100km total from our shore. It's practically 1 day mission, 2 days max. That's why I said we only need to build one single mini-base there.

Never mind the fact that all cargo ships entering Malacca strait practically have to slow down due to traffic. We have more than enough time to identify which china's cargo ship is the most strategic one.

So the mission is pretty much straightforward.

Interesting idea about building midget submarine base in malacca strait. Rather than long range patrol, midget submarine should just get assigned to some specific area to wander around waiting for prey, unlike kriegsmarine that playing cat and mouse game with the convoy that cross the Atlantic ocean, midget submarine in malacca strait just need to use camping strategy, wait and snipe.

But with our limited budget we should focus on getting 12 submarine first.

Yes, you understand the idea. Thank you!

Battle of the Atlantic is so freaking famous I wonder why people who are into military stuff still don't get the very basic idea what tonnage war is.

I agree with your last statement. Like I said, it all depends on the price. We don't need many actually. 1-2 midget sub around the narrow part in Malacca strait is enough.

Bottom line is, we can't compete money-wise with china. We can use our geographical advantage to hammer them hard.

 

[Ravager]

Hmmmm, I don't think you understand what tonnage war is. Just a quick glance at the Battle of the Atlantic info page will give you some idea.

Look, to target cargo ships in the narrow part of Malacca strait will only require our sub to travel around 80km - 100km total from our shore. It's practically 1 day mission, 2 days max. That's why I said we only need to build one single mini-base there.

Never mind the fact that all cargo ships entering Malacca strait practically have to slow down due to traffic. We have more than enough time to identify which china's cargo ship is the most strategic one.

So the mission is pretty much straightforward.



Yes, you understand the idea. Thank you!

Battle of the Atlantic is so freaking famous I wonder why people who are into military stuff still don't get the very basic idea what tonnage war is.

I agree with your last statement. Like I said, it all depends on the price. We don't need many actually. 1-2 midget sub around the narrow part in Malacca strait is enough.

Bottom line is, we can't compete money-wise with china. We can use our geographical advantage to hammer them hard.

If only the real war were as straight forward as you think it is . Put the midget's base in the malacca you said ?? In this age of JDAM and drones what would denied them this target in the first second of the conflict ?? While there is a merit in the idea the lack of endurance for loitering the area for searching the target of opportunity kill the first merit of the idea ... As simple as that . Until you figured out on how to replenish the midget without surfacing in the conflict area . No sane admiral willing to spend resources on it...

 

[¿Por qué?]

If only the real war were as straight forward as you think it is . Put the midget's base in the malacca you said ?? In this age of JDAM and drones what would denied them this target in the first second of the conflict ?? While there is a merit in the idea the lack of endurance for loitering the area for searching the target of opportunity kill the first merit of the idea ... As simple as that . Until you figured out on how to replenish the midget without surfacing in the conflict area . No sane admiral willing to spend resources on it...

Because it is straight forward. Like I said, it's pretty much hit-and-run mission.

I told you, you don't task midget sub with standard sub job. You don't task them to loiter and search the target. You act as if we don't have any means to do the simple intel stuff like observing cargo ships.

Malacca strait is about 800 km long, and very narrow. You can even use fishermen boats along our shore to visually recheck the intel report about the arrival of cargo ships. We're not looking for any advanced military sub here. It's just simple cargo ships.

Well, I think sane admiral would think that realistically we're no match for china. The power to destroy all of their cargo ships would at least give us hope to balance the situation a bit.

 

[trishna_amṛta]

Please chill. As a Millennial myself I find your assertions insulting.

It was by intent to do so. Because these days such measure sometime needed to get your points across.

How does complaining about the behavior of millennials and gen z correlate to defense exactly?

Should ask yourselves the same thing when it come about Baby Boomer.

Vehicles to fighting against Zombies

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Although the choice for base vehicle is highly agreeable (Toyota Hilux) Its still need run flat tire and proper armouring (unless its assuming everyone wearing their body armour). And just in case anyone thinking about using airless tire (Tweel), just forget about is. Those airless tire are useless other than for slow moving construction vehicle

Interesting idea about building midget submarine base in malacca strait. Rather than long range patrol, midget submarine should just get assigned to some specific area to wander around waiting for prey, unlike kriegsmarine that playing cat and mouse game with the convoy that cross the Atlantic ocean, midget submarine in malacca strait just need to use camping strategy, wait and snipe.

Malacca Strait is less than 150' deep. In this days & age it will get spotted rather quickly and neutralize. And even by lurking around require fuel, of which mdget sub doesn't have the capacity to do so.

If only the real war were as straight forward as you think it is . Put the midget's base in the malacca you said ?? In this age of JDAM and drones what would denied them this target in the first second of the conflict ?? While there is a merit in the idea the lack of endurance for loitering the area for searching the target of opportunity kill the first merit of the idea ... As simple as that . Until you figured out on how to replenish the midget without surfacing in the conflict area . No sane admiral willing to spend resources on it...

EXACTLY my point