Indonesia Defence Forum

[Cromwell]

We're going to acquire more Kongsberg NASAMS-II however i'm not sure whether we're getting something with longer range, rumours i've heard & read.

 

[Nike]

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[san.geuk]

Kementerian Prabowo Dapat Anggaran Rp 137 T, Ini Pesan Sri Mulyani

Dia mengatakan, Kementerian Pertahanan juga tidak hanya fokus pada pembelian alat utama sistem pertahanan (alutsista).

finance.detik.com

program dukungan management still biggest component, I wonder imo it's still to big just for komcad?

 

[NEKONEKO]

Due our geographic location the plan of having a dozen of subs will make many country wary, even without venturing far from our own water our sub can threaten global shipping lanes and still within protection of air cover from our islands, hunting our submarine to secure shipping lanes wont be easy for our adversaries.

I think that diesel powered submarine is enough, would be better if equipped with AIP or other techs to extend the submarine range, we should pursue whole local production and MRO, and develops submarine subsystems locally.

That's should be our aspiration, a great Nation with more ocean than land area which must be protected, with territory larger than European continent. In less than 100 years history of our , with several great Naval battle happened around our area, starting from Battle of Malaya, battle of Java sea, Battle of Leyte Gulf, operation gratitude in South China Sea and so on it is imperative for Indonesia to have a great Navy with long range and great endurance

How about having more than just 12 diesel powered subs, and some of it able to launch SLCM.
I wonder if we are able to develop nuclear marine propulsion like Brazil.

 

[Nike]

Due our geographic location the plan of having a dozen of subs will make many country wary, even without venturing far from our own water our sub can threaten global shipping lanes and still within protection of air cover from our islands, hunting our submarine to secure shipping lanes wont be easy for our adversaries.

I think that diesel powered submarine is enough, would be better if equipped with AIP or other techs to extend the submarine range, we should pursue whole local production and MRO, and develops submarine subsystems locally.


How about having more than just 12 diesel powered subs, and some of it able to launch SLCM.
I wonder if we are able to develop nuclear marine propulsion like Brazil.

Talking about ambition and aspiration as a great archipelago country, we can't limit ourselves just like what happened to Japan. Indonesia has more than anything to start such Naval building programme though. What we lacked is political ambition and willingness to build a proper Navy and Air Force worthy of our stature as a big country. Just looking at our current condition, our government budget is around 180 Billion US Dollar, meanwhile our armed forces budget is still around less than 10 Billion US Dollar. Our country had 260 million population, with human development index around 0.712 points quite high to support complex machines but what we have today mostly archaic relic leftover from Cold War era,some even using WW II technology. Our industry base is quite big and complex actually, with many engage in automotive and Naval engineering but we can't progress well from assembly phase for Naval and Army products.

We can compared with country which stature is comparable to us, which is South Korea. Their GDP in 2019 is around 1,5 trillion US Dollar, their national government spending budget is around 283 Billion US Dollar and their defense budget is around 43 Billion US Dollar which is around 15 percentage of their National budget. Meanwhile us only spending around 5 percentage of National budget for defense purpose. Lack of political Will and support still prevalent in Indonesia.

 

[Lasa-X]

Ocean going submarines are needed now. If we look at kajian that was made early decade 2000, we can see that alutsista for both laut dangkal dan laut dalam is needed. No such as 1 sub suits all.
That is why I believe, ocean going subs (> 2000ton) will be required sooner or later. Specially for LCS and Arafura sea.
Means DSME 1400ton sub/karya anak bangsa will still produced and get new ocean going subs. Finger cross.

 

[Fl0gger]

Semoga produk jepang bisa di akuisisi...

 

[Ravager]

Talking about ambition and aspiration as a great archipelago country, we can't limit ourselves just like what happened to Japan. Indonesia has more than anything to start such Naval building programme though. What we lacked is political ambition and willingness to build a proper Navy and Air Force worthy of our stature as a big country. Just looking at our current condition, our government budget is around 180 Billion US Dollar, meanwhile our armed forces budget is still around less than 10 Billion US Dollar. Our country had 260 million population, with human development index around 0.712 points quite high to support complex machines but what we have today mostly archaic relic leftover from Cold War era,some even using WW II technology. Our industry base is quite big and complex actually, with many engage in automotive and Naval engineering but we can't progress well from assembly phase for Naval and Army products.

We can compared with country which stature is comparable to us, which is South Korea. Their GDP in 2019 is around 1,5 trillion US Dollar, their national government spending budget is around 283 Billion US Dollar and their defense budget is around 43 Billion US Dollar which is around 15 percentage of their National budget. Meanwhile us only spending around 5 percentage of National budget for defense purpose. Lack of political Will and support still prevalent in Indonesia.

Some people still couldn't see the big pictures and things do get worsened by the rampant corruption within the top brass old guard . Make no mistakes ... Most of our midle officer are quite progressive and visionary but they stilted as now .
Not to mention most of our Industrial base are all over the place without a clear technical guidence and coherent long term vision . Some steps were allready taken but we are racing with the time here ... And brother !! Without some serious effort from our side the future are starting to look bleak .
It's sound ominious ... But , i'm a firm believer of reality and honesty .

 

[trishna_amṛta]

It was out of our technological capacity .

It's far beyond our human resources capacity (qualitative). To reach the capability of operating anything with nuclear propulsion we need strong industrial base first. Think of Japan as an excellent example. And to have the necessary industrial base we need human resources, which mean we need to radically shifting our certain faith based education into STEM based education

That's it, that's why MoD requires a submarine with AIP, because it has good endurance than classic diesel electric submarines.

Li-ion has better energy density overall compare to any AIP. And NO the Li-ion cell make up for the Sōryū-class submarines isn't the same as the Li-ion we use in our gadgets. Albeit IIRC they were build using 18650 cell

View attachment 675615

An overly optimistic estimate there

I wonder if we are able to develop nuclear marine propulsion like Brazil.

Maybe in the next 30 - 50 years we will eventually able to do so.

Ocean going submarines are needed now. If we look at kajian that was made early decade 2000, we can see that alutsista for both laut dangkal dan laut dalam is needed. No such as 1 sub suits all.
That is why I believe, ocean going subs (> 2000ton) will be required sooner or later. Specially for LCS and Arafura sea.

And HOW would one SAFELY NAVIGATE 2000+ tonne sub in 100' - 150' deep water with plenty of fisherman nets hmmm...????
FYI I aways bring blunt tip diving knife every time I went under the wave. And it wasn't for cutting / chopping fishes either.

Most of our midle officer are quite progressive and visionary but they stilted as now .

Be patience. The Baby Boomer generation will eventually retire and will be replace by Gen-X that is currently already entering policy making position. I don't have any hope for both Millennial & Gen Zombie though.

 

[¿Por qué?]

Nuclear submarine is obviously great. It offers superior speed, stealth, unlimited range and endurance. But it also comes with huge financial outlay.

Virginia-class nuclear submarine cost the U.S. $2.8 billion - $3.4 billion per sub. You can buy 5-6 A26 Oceanic variant submarine (blue water AIP-diesel sub) for the same price.

From the technology perspective, the fact that many countries are using diesel-powered submarine than nuclear one, makes the tech development of the diesel submarine also more advanced.

Take the stealth aspect for example. The most advanced AIP-diesel submarine these days can swim underwater arguably as quiet as the nuclear one. Never mind using the Li-ion battery.

The ability of AIP submarine was demonstrated in 2005, when HMS Gotland (the predecessor of Swedish A26 submarine), “sank” many U.S. nuclear fast-attack subs, and even the USS Ronald Reagan carrier in joint exercises.

Btw, Saab unveiled a modified A26 submarine fitted with vertical launched land attack cruise missiles at the IMDEX Asia in Singapore back in 2017.

I know we won't be getting Tomahawk, but perhaps Saab could accommodate the Brazilian short-range (300 km) cruise missile for A26.

Who knows maybe we can directly targeting Beijing using this A26 sub (the middle & extended variant)

 

[joesatriyono]

Nuclear submarine is obviously great. It offers superior speed, stealth, unlimited range and endurance. But it also comes with huge financial outlay.

Virginia-class nuclear submarine cost the U.S. $2.8 billion - $3.4 billion per sub. You can buy 5-6 A26 Oceanic variant submarine (blue water AIP-diesel sub) for the same price.

From the technology perspective, the fact that many countries are using diesel-powered submarine than nuclear one, makes the tech development of the diesel submarine also more advanced.

Take the stealth aspect for example. The most advanced AIP-diesel submarine these days can swim underwater arguably as quiet as the nuclear one. Never mind using the Li-ion battery.

The ability of AIP submarine was demonstrated in 2005, when HMS Gotland (the predecessor of Swedish A26 submarine), “sank” many U.S. nuclear fast-attack subs, and even the USS Ronald Reagan carrier in joint exercises.

Btw, Saab unveiled a modified A26 submarine fitted with vertical launched land attack cruise missiles at the IMDEX Asia in Singapore back in 2017.

I know we won't be getting Tomahawk, but perhaps Saab could accommodate the Brazilian short-range (300 km) cruise missile for A26.

Who knows maybe we can directly targeting Beijing using this A26 sub (the middle & extended variant)

why virginia tho? if we "really" have guts, los angeles class will be retired soon

 

[Ravager]

I don't hope for a millenial and zombie generation though

It pain me to say it but somehow i find it hard to refute this

 

[HeyPaula1963]

It pain me to say it but somehow i find it hard to refute this

Why? I really don't know the reasons

 

[trishna_amṛta]

if we "really" have guts, los angeles class will be retired soon

Why does anyone even wan't a clunky & noisy i688 boats? Not to mention the combat system still powered by Intel original 486 CPU? (not even DX2 or DX4, but the original 486)

 

[NEKONEKO]

Indonesian held hostage in Philippines killed in gunfight: govt

Jakarta (ANTARA) - An Indonesian taken hostage by the Abu Sayyaf terror group earlier this year has been killed in a gunfight between the armed group and the Philippine army, Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi said on Wednesday.

Indonesian held hostage in Philippines killed in gunfight: govt

An Indonesian taken hostage by the Abu Sayyaf terror group earlier this year has been killed in a gunfight between the armed group and the Philippine army, ...

en.antaranews.com