Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1289119861243699200

He is suggested the Army to colab with private industry so the technician can gain more benefit in maintenance

 

[Lasa-X]

" Both the Hawk and Scorpion deals were underwritten by the ECGD. Indonesia has never paid for the aircraft and vehicles, as the payments were rescheduled in 1998 following the Asian financial crisis. After 1998, the ECGD paid out £645 million for bad debts relating to arms sales to Suharto—about £400 million to BAE Systems for the Hawks, £93 million to Alvis for the Scorpions, and £150 million to other UK arms companies (Guardian, 20.12.04). Currently, Indonesia owes the UK £551 million in military-related debt (Hansard, 10.1.05). Of this, £80.7 million is for the Scorpion and Stormer vehicles and £382.7 million for the Hawks (Hansard, 13.1.05). Payment of the debt by Indonesia to the ECGD is not expected to finish until 2021, and there is every likelihood the money will never be recovered "

https://publications.parliament.uk/...YOR89crZAfgTuBFpCN_6v1bVZYys5digIq8mO6w6smd9U

From House of Commons, seems alike we never pay our Hawks & Scorpion.

Damn son, those Hawks are starting to retire in few years and haven't paid yet and some people complains about embargo and how UK was not allowed to use Hawks in konflik Aceh

 

[Nike]

Damn son, those Hawks are starting to retire in few years and haven't paid yet and some people complains about embargo and how UK was not allowed to use Hawks in konflik Aceh

The most ungrateful buyer ever

 

[Whizzack]

" Both the Hawk and Scorpion deals were underwritten by the ECGD. Indonesia has never paid for the aircraft and vehicles, as the payments were rescheduled in 1998 following the Asian financial crisis. After 1998, the ECGD paid out £645 million for bad debts relating to arms sales to Suharto—about £400 million to BAE Systems for the Hawks, £93 million to Alvis for the Scorpions, and £150 million to other UK arms companies (Guardian, 20.12.04). Currently, Indonesia owes the UK £551 million in military-related debt (Hansard, 10.1.05). Of this, £80.7 million is for the Scorpion and Stormer vehicles and £382.7 million for the Hawks (Hansard, 13.1.05). Payment of the debt by Indonesia to the ECGD is not expected to finish until 2021, and there is every likelihood the money will never be recovered "

https://publications.parliament.uk/...YOR89crZAfgTuBFpCN_6v1bVZYys5digIq8mO6w6smd9U

From House of Commons, seems alike we never pay our Hawks & Scorpion.

Interesting... If we really are not paying, then what's keeping them from suing us in court for failing to pay...? This should be an easy win for them...

Or perhaps, quietly, the Brits actually also prefer not to be scrutinized over this rumored "Hawk seharga Hornet" and "Scorpion seharga Leo2" deal...?

 

[Nike]

Interesting... If we really are not paying, then what's keeping them from suing us in court for failing to pay...? This should be an easy win for them...

Or perhaps, quietly, the Brits actually also prefer not to be scrutinized over this rumored "Hawk seharga Hornet" and "Scorpion seharga Leo2" deal...?

The deals involved dictator family who falling from the Grace and favor of Indonesian public by public revolt and involved large scale corruption case within the deal, the potential outburst and damage for Britain defense industry is so great if they pursue the matter and payment from us.

 

[Indos]

Damn son, those Hawks are starting to retire in few years and haven't paid yet and some people complains about embargo and how UK was not allowed to use Hawks in konflik Aceh

Indonesia doesnt pay it maybe because of the embargo imposed between 1995-2005. Why we should pay if they violated the contract to supply the spare parts. And the letter date is in 2005. It should have been paid by now.

 

[Nike]

Whatever, i prefer we are not paying such bad loans written by former dictator regime whose loans itself is full of bribery indication Cases and the weapons itself is subpar items with limited use in current modern warfare even when engage third world countries armies. Hell no

 

[Nike]

 

[trishna_amṛta]

yah setidak nya itu yg saya rasakan saat test drive menggunakan mercy lalu scania dan hino juga ural truck dan renault di ranpur elang terutama saat beban penuh dan menanjak juga saat cruise mereka terasa lebih bertenaga utk kendaaran sehari hari saya pilih pajero saya dan kl ada touring saja pakai ford ranger terutama saat touring dan bawa trailer utk motor trail. itu juga menerangkan kenapa rekan Paskhas memilih turangga yg berbasis ford f 150 dr pada menggunakan basis Hilux atau land cruiser sekali pun nah kl maung ini dalam range dan prospek yg berbeda jadi menggunakan mesin hilux dan basis hilux adalah pilihan yang tepat menurut saya semoga anda paham yang saya maksud regard

Kalau performance mesin memang ga mungkin bisa ngalahkan barang Eropa (apalagi cewe basis Eropa ), tapi yg perlu diketahui dgn mobil Jepang adalah margin toleransi nya jauh lebih besar dibandingkan mobil Eropa atau Amerika sekalipun. Sebenarnya kalau kita buka (bongkar) mesn Eropa, performance mereka dapatnya hanya karena margin toleransi nya sangat kecil yg akibatnya masa pakai bin maintenance jauh lebih berat dibadingkan mobil Jepang. Sebagai contoh mesin mobil Eropa kalau sudah usia dekat 10 tahun siap2x aja "mbubut" itu silinder yg tentunya ngerubah (nurunkan) performance mesin. Dan hal ini juga penyebab yg sering kita lihat mobil Lamborghini yg terbakar. Sebenarnya bukan karena mesin nya jelek, tapi kondisi mesin sudah melewati margin toleransi. Hal yg sama juga dgn F-150, saya kebetulan ga pernah punya mobil Ford jadi ga bisa detail, cuma setau saya F-150 kurang lebih memang margin toleransinya mirip dgn Toyota, sedangkan utk performance mobil Amerika filosofis nya adalah dengan "brute force" alias kapasitas mesin yg dibesarkan.

 

[Nike]

Kalau performance mesin memang ga mungkin bisa ngalahkan barang Eropa (apalagi cewe basis Eropa ), tapi yg perlu diketahui dgn mobil Jepang adalah margin toleransi nya jauh lebih besar dibandingkan mobil Eropa atau Amerika sekalipun. Sebenarnya kalau kita buka (bongkar) mesn Eropa, performance mereka dapatnya hanya karena margin toleransi nya sangat kecil yg akibatnya masa pakai bin maintenance jauh lebih berat dibadingkan mobil Jepang. Sebagai contoh mesin mobil Eropa kalau sudah usia dekat 10 tahun siap2x aja "mbubut" itu silinder yg tentunya ngerubah (nurunkan) performance mesin. Dan hal ini juga penyebab yg sering kita lihat mobil Lamborghini yg terbakar. Sebenarnya bukan karena mesin nya jelek, tapi kondisi mesin sudah melewati margin toleransi. Hal yg sama juga dgn F-150, saya kebetulan ga pernah punya mobil Ford jadi ga bisa detail, cuma setau saya F-150 kurang lebih memang margin toleransinya mirip dgn Toyota, sedangkan utk performance mobil Amerika filosofis nya adalah dengan "brute force" alias kapasitas mesin yg dibesarkan.

Jarang ngeliat mobil Mersi Doyok dibandingkan kijang kotak sabun yang sama sama dari tahun 1980an, Lol.

Btw, Nissan skyline GTR punya peak thrust performance yg bisa saingin model sejenis dari Eropa dan Amerika. Godspeed.

 

[Nike]

Indonesia eyes German warship for Interim Readiness Frigate requirement
by Ridzwan Rahmat



The Indonesian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has indicated an interest in procuring Germany’s Bremen (Type 122)-class warship for a newly established Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia – Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL) requirement known as the Interim Readiness Frigate (IRF).

The German Navy’s former Bremen-class frigate, Emden , seen here before its retirement. Indonesia has identified Germany’s sole remaining Bremen-class frigate, Lübeck , as a contender for the country’s new Interim Readiness Frigate requirement. (EADS)

Documents provided to Janes on 30 July indicate that the IRF, and the recommendation to procure Germany’s sole remaining Bremen-class frigate, were established based on a letter of guidance from the Indonesian MoD.

The letter sets out procurements that should be prioritised between 2020 and 2024, suchthat the TNI-AL would meet national security requirements outlined in the third phase of country’s Minimum Essential Force (MEFF) military moderrnisation blueprint.

Among the priorities is the IRF, which seeks to temporary fill future operational gaps in the TNI-AL’s surface combatant fleet. The service has an outstanding requirement for at least two more newbuild frigates, and has indicated its preference for a variant of Denmark’s Iver Huitfeldt class. However, it is unclear when a procurement process for the Danish warships would materialise.

The Bremen class is a group of eight frigates that were commissioned by the German Navy between 1982 and 1990. The 130 m frigate can accommodate a crew of 219, and can embark up to two helicopters.

In terms of weapons, the Bremen class is equipped with launchers for the RGM-84D Harpoon anti-ship missile, the Raytheon Sea Sparrow anti-air missile, and four 324 mm torpedo tubes. It is also equipped with an Oto Melara 76 mm/62 naval gun in the primary position and two 20 mm cannons from Rheinmetall.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...hip-for-interim-readiness-frigate-requirement

 

[Nike]

Interim readiness program? That's where the point blanks left by the former MoD should be filled by current MoD. What to expect?

1. Submarine
2. Fighter
3. Frigates
4. Helicopters SAR Combat

Anything else?

 

[Alex898]

Interim readiness program? That's where the point blanks left by the former MoD should be filled by current MoD. What to expect?

1. Submarine
2. Fighter
3. Frigates
4. Helicopters SAR Combat

Anything else?

it just doesnt make any sense, why would they go for less quality, secondhand asset procurement, just so they can say that they reached MEF III target ? its just stupid, the thing is, we have the budget to go for high quality, and new equipment. if they do this because china pressure, then its understandable, but then again, does the pressure is high enough to force us to be reckless ? i dont think so, so far our relationship with China is not as bad as it was in January.

 

[Nike]

it just doesnt make any sense, why would they go for less quality, secondhand asset procurement, just so they can say that they reached MEF III target ? its just stupid, the thing is, we have the budget to go for high quality, and new equipment. if they do this because china pressure, then its understandable, but then again, does the pressure is high enough to force us to be reckless ? i dont think so, so far our relationship with China is not as bad as it was in January.

It is not only based on our relationship with China but China with the other forces in the region. China and US tit for tat resemble Cold War era politics Confrontation, better to have something at hands unused compared to have nothing when you need the most. Btw brand new equipment is need long time to be produced, tested and deliver. Rafale need 48 months before delivery date, warships need more than four years, Submarine need more and with progressing of our reorganization program (expansion of the fleets forces and Air Force units) we need something for them to trained for and worked at immediately.

 

[NEKONEKO]

it just doesnt make any sense, why would they go for less quality, secondhand asset procurement, just so they can say that they reached MEF III target ? its just stupid, the thing is, we have the budget to go for high quality, and new equipment. if they do this because china pressure, then its understandable, but then again, does the pressure is high enough to force us to be reckless ? i dont think so, so far our relationship with China is not as bad as it was in January.

Not yet finished to modernise or even expand the fleet we already lost several ships.
Faktor internal juga perlu diperhatikan. Untuk frigate itu cuman 1 biji aja nanggung.

We still can upgrade the sensors and weapons.