Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

Then we'll get 1-2 Skadron of fighters that does not conform to the rest of the mainly "western tech" fighters dominated Air Force, and will eventually burden the Military for their technical maintenance and management issues. We literally send these Flankers halfway around the world to Belarus everytime they needed heavy maintenance, while at the same time avoid dealing with the Russians as much as possible due to the CAATSA threat.

Why should we invest money to accommodate these meager amount of Sukhois that will not benefit us in the long run? In the future, the Air Force will mainly possess F-16s and FXs, or anything that could carry the AMRAAM and Sidewinders, also the rest of the Military is already increasingly gone "west", with the fact that the Tanks and the Ships are also mainly Western (NATO). The current ToT and self-sufficiency program of our Inhan also imply more western technology and expertise to be acquired, while for "eastern" tech? almost none, with only some noteworthy ambition such as the C705 reverse-engineering.

Where will the Sukhois be in this situation? 2 Squadrons of fighters from a sanctioned country, that does not conform to NATO standardization, that is also notoriously maintenance-heavy, while we currently seeking the acquisition, technology transfer and co-production of a fighter that was planned to have on-par or even higher performance to the Sukhois but with more advanced technologies onboard, what is the use of Sukhois if this will be the case? 1.1 billion USD, that could be instead used to acquire NATO-standard figters or to fund the FX program.

C 705 tech itself come from Exocet, Chinese made AShM tech came from French. Thats why integration between C802 (big brother of C705) toward our Missile boats and Ahmad Yani class is met not much difficulties. Even Chinese 35 mm cannon and radar is can be ordered to compelled with NATO standard

 

[barjo]

Dulu pernah ada petinggi TNI yang nyinggung F-15 dan mereka bilang kalo ada "budget" nya , btw i think f-16 is not really a feasible option/choice to fill our squadron gap right now , the production line is almost completely full especially after tha taiwan request for their dozen of f-16 , if we still choose f-16 as a choice , would be likely getting it in decade (2030 or more) when the f-16 are going starting to be an obsolete platform , or maybe an upgraded secondhand one, why not choose the latest gripen with AESA radar and with f414 engine ? I know it could be a logistic nightmare for now but having an f414 powered plane right now could benefit us for the future upcoming KF-X for commonality

Or maybe swicth to double engine like yamehong MT25 or R25 better than single cylinder and a nasty rev sound LOL

 

[Nike]

Dulu pernah ada petinggi TNI yang nyinggung F-15 dan mereka bilang kalo ada "budget" nya , btw i think f-16 is not really a feasible option/choice to fill our squadron gap right now , the production line is almost completely full especially after tha taiwan request for their dozen of f-16 , if we still choose f-16 as a choice , would be likely getting it in decade (2030 or more) when the f-16 are going starting to be an obsolete platform , or maybe an upgraded secondhand one, why not choose the latest gripen with AESA radar and with f414 engine ? I know it could be a logistic nightmare for now but having an f414 powered plane right now could benefit us for the future upcoming KF-X for commonality

I would not calling the beast (both Turkey and Pakistan units made well in 80/90 era) who can be on par or bested newly build fighter such as SU35 or SU 30 MKI (both made in 2010 onward) as obsolote. If old beast can contended against newly built platform whatelse the new itinarian such as block 70+ can do?

Grippen? Meh, they not up to par

 

[umigami]

Dulu pernah ada petinggi TNI yang nyinggung F-15 dan mereka bilang kalo ada "budget" nya , btw i think f-16 is not really a feasible option/choice to fill our squadron gap right now , the production line is almost completely full especially after tha taiwan request for their dozen of f-16 , if we still choose f-16 as a choice , would be likely getting it in decade (2030 or more) when the f-16 are going starting to be an obsolete platform , or maybe an upgraded secondhand one, why not choose the latest gripen with AESA radar and with f414 engine ? I know it could be a logistic nightmare for now but having an f414 powered plane right now could benefit us for the future upcoming KF-X for commonality

how about this,
get some good F-16 airframe park on AMARG with EDA program again,
upgrade them To F-16V Viper Standard!
cheaper, and we got them faster...
(they can upgrade some taiwanese F-16 A/B to V standard, so why not block 25, 32, or 42 ?)

I know this is an unpopular opinion, gonna start that "falcon buluk" debate again, but why not consider it??

walau harus nunggu ga ada salahnya sih. untuk ke depan, TNI pasti bakal butuh banyak SDM baru, ada tambahan 2-3 skadron baru, kan itu juga butuh waktu juga...

 

[NEKONEKO]

1.1 billion USD, that could be instead used to acquire NATO-standard figters or to fund the FX program.

Or to develop our own jet engine, a small one for starter.
Or get some ote ote from somewhere.

our political member not planing to bomb canberra.. not yet

Top LEL

 

[barjo]

Not that we cant circumvent such embargo, US made weapons usually got a lot of user and spare parts producer. Just for F 15 alone they let Saudi and Japan to produce spares and other tools. F 16, you know the user itself still a lot and many countries license produce them. You know high risk high profit.

Maybe 'population' also to be consider by them since we have more than 30 machine in the future can be the largest F16 operator on region... as long as.. our political member not planing to bomb canberra.. not yet

Or to develop our own jet engine, a small one for starter.

We have plan to build hawk years ago.. but you know the end is

how about this,
get some good F-16 airframe park on AMARG with EDA program again,
upgrade them To F-16V Viper Standard!
cheaper, and we got them faster...
(they can upgrade some taiwanese F-16 A/B to V standard, so why not block 25, 32, or 42 ?)

I know this is an unpopular opinion, gonna start that "falcon buluk" debate again, but why not consider it??

walau harus nunggu ga ada salahnya sih. untuk ke depan, TNI pasti bakal butuh banyak SDM baru, ada tambahan 2-3 skadron baru, kan itu juga butuh waktu juga...

Dude!! Come on LOL

 

[Lasa-X]

Having 1-2 sq of F-15 variants is very tempting. Korean variant is still ok (a bit less advanced than RSAF ones). Imagine the combo of Vipers + Eagles while waiting for IFX.

But yeah, first thing first. Do they allow Indonesia to buy it? If yes, how many? I am sure, the resistant from kawasan will pop up. Not because of it will change the balance of power (although this will be their reason for media) but this will close a (little) gap to other countries dominance in military.

So for me, having Flankers still the best option for " don't put all your eggs in one bucket" kind of balance IF we can't get Eagle.

Btw, some of you I believe know the problemw Rosoboron and Flanker fleet in TNI AU few years back. Hopely already solved by now. Otherwise....

 

[Nike]

Two more LST is on the bag

Pemenuhan Alutsista TNI, Sekjen Kemhan: Keterlibatan Industri Pertahanan Dalam Negeri Lebih Diutamakan
Rabu, 21 Agustus 2019

Batam

– Sekretaris Jenderal Kementerian Pertahanan (Sekjen Kemhan) Laksdya TNI Agus Setiadji, S.A.P, M.A., berharap keterlibatan industri pertahanan dalam negeri lebih diutamakan dalam memenuhi kebutuhan Alustsista TNI terutama TNI AL yang saat ini banyak yang perlu diremajakan.

“Dari sekian unit Kapal KRI TNI beberapa sudah tua dan perlu peremajaan, dan Kemhan berharap adanya keterlibatan industri pertahanan dalam negeri”, ungkap Sekjen Kemhan.

Hal tersebut diungkapkan Sekjen Kemhan saat menerima paparan tentang rencana pembangunan dua unit Kapal Landing Ship Tank (LST) atau Kapal Angkut Tank Pesanan TNI AL dari PT Bandar Abadi Shipyard, Rabu (21/8). di sela – sela kunjungan kerjanya ke Batam, Provinsi Kepulauan Riau.

Lebih lanjut Sekjen Kemhan mengatakan, dari alokasi Anggaran Pinjaman Dalam Negeri yang ada diharapkan dapat mewadahi pengadaan pembangunan beberapa kebutuhan Alutsista TNI AL terutama kapal – kapal jenis LPD, kapal Rumah Sakit dan kapal LST. “Pengadaan Kapal LST ini sangat dibutuhkan, karena kapal LST banyak yang sudah berusia tua”, jelas Sekjen Kemhan.

Kepada pihak PT Bandar Abadi Shipyard yang telah diberikan kepecayaan oleh Kemhan untuk membangun dua unit kapal LST, Sekjen Kemhan berharap untuk menjalin komunikasi dengan pihak pengguna dalam hal ini TNI AL. Sehingga, proses pembangunannya sampai dengan penyerahan dapat berjalan dengan lancar dan tepat waktu.

Sementara itu, Komisaris PT Bandar Abadi Shipyard Stanley Rojali menyampaikan apresiasi atas kepercayaan dan kehormatan yang diberikan oleh Kemhan kepada PT Bandar Abadi Shipyard untuk membangun dua unit Kapal LST untuk TNI AL yang kontraknya sudah ditandatangani bulan Januari 2019.

Dikatakannya, PT Bandar Abadi Shipyard merasa bangga telah mendapatkan kepercayaan kontrak pengadaan LST dari Kemhan dan kedepan diharapkan mampu memberikan yang terbaik dalam berpartisispasi mendukung terwujudnya kemandirian Alutsista dalam negeri. (BDI/ACP)

https://www.kemhan.go.id/2019/08/21...pertahanan-dalam-negeri-lebih-diutamakan.html

 

[NEKONEKO]

Do they allow Indonesia to buy it?

Oh cmon It's just f15 not f35.

resistant from kawasan will pop up.

No, they will get backlash from ID is it worth it?

 

[Nike]

Hopefully someone pro lurking here and joint PT PINDAD eventually, even if he/she is a foreigner

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[Cromwell]

CAATSA doang ga terlalu greget walaupun tetap diperhitungkan buat mereka. Yg bikin mumet itu macam kita yg ga kuat (atau mungkin ga pandai) leveragenya. Kalo dikombinasi sama perdagangan itu yg bikin mumet ngitung analisa resiko soale bisa ganggu stabilitas ekonomi & politik kita yg masih rentan ini. Coba tanya itu org kemendag dapet telepon dari siapa begitu soal sukro anget diberita bahwa kita ngotot tetap mau dibungkus kesini


Trimaran!! Keren ini kapal, sayang ga pake water jet atau kombinasi gas engine biar lebih ngacir. Tapi kok C705 ya? jd kurang semangat

About the missile, well actually i heard rumour recently about AShM for KCR-60 and this. He's actually a lecturer in ITS so not directly involved in defense industries

 

[Ruhnama]

Awalnya gw berharap skenario ngawur turki bakalan buang semua f16 mereka ganti sukhoi series dan berpaling dri nato kwkwkkw
Tapi kynya kagak sih bakalan sih.

Btw many turkish forumer like decision to buy s400. They like choose SAM rather than stealth fighter

Btw are gripen is underated aircraft or not?

Btw are pakistani f16 also shootdown Su 30?

 

[HellFireIndo]

But yeah, first thing first. Do they allow Indonesia to buy it? If yes, how many? I am sure, the resistant from kawasan will pop up. Not because of it will change the balance of power (although this will be their reason for media) but this will close a (little) gap to other countries dominance in military.

None of the SEA countries are able to do anything to protest nor intervene with our internal matters, both due to the ASEAN principle and the fact that they just simply can't. I think we should stop bothering about these ASEAN neighbors, like to stop being too "considerate" of their needs, as they never bother to appreciate our effort in acting nice, being neutral and staying low all this time anyway.

What do you mean by "close a little gap to other countries dominance in military"? i find the sentence kinda weird, none of SEA countries dominate others in Military.

Awalnya gw berharap skenario ngawur turki bakalan buang semua f16 mereka ganti sukhoi series dan berpaling dri nato kwkwkkw
Tapi kynya kagak sih bakalan sih.

Btw many turkish forumer like decision to buy s400. They like choose SAM rather than stealth fighter

Btw are gripen is underated aircraft or not?

Not underrated, a bit overrated tbh. Not trying to undermine their performance, but often they are simply irrelevant for some countries, especially the one that operated latest F-16 variants, as they are of the same class and it doesn't make sense to operate both of theme at the same time (barring some exception..). The key difference for both of them, is that one is Swedish, one is American.

 

[Kucing itu imut]

None of the SEA countries are able to do anything to protest nor intervene with our internal matters, both due to the ASEAN principle and the fact that they just simply can't. I think we should stop bothering about these ASEAN neighbors, like to stop being too "considerate" of their needs, as they never bother to appreciate our effort in acting nice, being neutral and staying low all this time anyway.

What do you mean by "close a little gap to other countries dominance in military"? i find the sentence kinda weird, none of SEA countries dominate others in Military.

I think what he/she means is Australia.

 

[Cromwell]

Credit to Fb page World Defense Zone
Javeline missile test