Indonesia Defence Forum

[striver44]

still wondering if we will buy such thing , an air launched version could turn our su-30mk2 to become something useful for naval strike , and not just basic carpet bombing

Lack of sufficient near peer doctrine thats why

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

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[HellFireIndo]

It's not really a "threat" when these magnetic detector thing is at most can be used for defensive purpose, as long as they doesn't point their gun at us, or they currently doesn't have the adequate capability to, there's nothing to worry. Australian "core" is in their far southeast, while their northern territory is sparsely populated and largely insignificant,also separated by inhospitable deserts and endless difficult terrain, these Australians could only rely on their Air Force and Airlifted troops if we're talking about power projection, as their situation is not very different in difficulty to us in terms of transporting and landing troops in these area (Northern Australia and Eastern Indonesia).

Australia literally have less population than Jabodetabek, their troops can't be replaced easily and any major damage to manpower will give a huge blow to their fighting capability abroad, and they would certainly just retreat, then wait in their ranch for the enemy to come, and of course for the US to come for their rescue. I never recalled any major operation in real war where Australia mount an offensive on their own and successfully occupy anything on their own, they nearly always acted as an auxiliary to UK or to the US, always participating in someone else's war and join in as a sidekick.

I would prefer that we are in a good relation with these Aussies tho and if possible, be closer than that. I've said it before, but then they could act as a mediator for our business with the "West" especially US, while at the same time shut their damned mouth regarding our internal business. If Indonesian economy finally reach more than 2 Trillion USD and defense budget more than 20 billion USD, then that's where we should start getting more assertive towards these bloody muppets.

Australia should not be worry of our submarines! Why?

There are two reasons why Australia should not be worry on our subs :

1. Our submarines U209 has maximum range of 19000 km. Our coast line has 99093 km long (according to BIG).

99093/19000 = 5,2 rounded to 6 positions.

If 1 positions to be filled with 2 subs (1 unit on duty and 1 unit on alert or maintenance) therefore 6 x 2 = 12 submarines needed.

In this case, the purpose of our 12 submarines is only to guard our coastal line, preventing any evil infiltrations come into our islands, either from the surface of the ocean or down under the seas.

2. Time needed to build the submarines.
We already have 3 nagapasas for first batch. For the second batch of 3 unit needs 7 years (from 2019 plus 7 years comes to 2026). The third and fourth batch are also need 7 years each.

Current Nagapasas 3 unit
2019 - 2026 = 3 unit (2019+7 = 2026)
2026 - 2033 = 3 unit (2026+7 = 2033)
2033 - 2040 = 3 unit (2033+7 = 2040)

3+3+3+3 = 12

Thus all of these 12 submarines will be completed on 2040!

I don't think that's how it will turns out to be.

 

[Cromwell]

It's not really a "threat" when these magnetic detector thing is at most can be used for defensive purpose, as long as they doesn't point their gun at us, or they currently doesn't have the adequate capability to, there's nothing to worry. Australian "core" is in their far southeast, while their northern territory is sparsely populated and largely insignificant,also separated by inhospitable deserts and endless difficult terrain, these Australians could only rely on their Air Force and Airlifted troops if we're talking about power projection, as their situation is not very different in difficulty to us in terms of transporting and landing troops in these area (Northern Australia and Eastern Indonesia).

Australia literally have less population than Jabodetabek, their troops can't be replaced easily and any major damage to manpower will give a huge blow to their fighting capability abroad, and they would certainly just retreat, then wait in their ranch for the enemy to come, and of course for the US to come for their rescue. I never recalled any major operation in real war where Australia mount an offensive on their own and successfully occupy anything on their own, they nearly always acted as an auxiliary to UK or to the US, always participating in someone else's war and join in as a sidekick.

I would prefer that we are in a good relation with these Aussies tho and if possible, be closer than that. I've said it before, but then they could act as a mediator for our business with the "West" especially US, while at the same time shut their damned mouth regarding our internal business. If Indonesian economy finally reach more than 2 Trillion USD and defense budget more than 20 billion USD, then that's where we should start getting more assertive towards these bloody muppets.


I don't think that's how it will turns out to be.

Speaking of modern day Australian military, The Army currently has only 2 Division; 1st Division is for ground operations meanwhile 2nd Division is more of auxilliary units, reserve and administration however they invest heavily on RAAF & RAN, making the most powerfull military forces in the region. There's where we can get example and learn to build the forces, from Australia if not from Singapore.

Meanwhile TS-3002 return from overhaul in Belarus, July 28th 2019

Maskapai : ANTONOV Design Bureau (Cargo)
Nomer Penerbangan : ADB3159
Rute : HRI (Srilangka)-UPG(RON)
Crew : 20 WNA (Ukraine)

https://lancerdefense.com/2019/07/28/pesawat-tempur-su-30-tni-au-dikirim-dari-belarusia/

 

[Cromwell]

AN/APX-101(V) IFF in F-16 A/B Block 15 OCU

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

If Indonesian economy finally reach more than 2 Trillion USD and defense budget more than 20 billion USD

It still fifteen years to go...if economic growth is 5% per year.

 

[Gundala]

It's not really a "threat" when these magnetic detector thing is at most can be used for defensive purpose, as long as they doesn't point their gun at us, or they currently doesn't have the adequate capability to, there's nothing to worry. Australian "core" is in their far southeast, while their northern territory is sparsely populated and largely insignificant,also separated by inhospitable deserts and endless difficult terrain, these Australians could only rely on their Air Force and Airlifted troops if we're talking about power projection, as their situation is not very different in difficulty to us in terms of transporting and landing troops in these area (Northern Australia and Eastern Indonesia).

Australia literally have less population than Jabodetabek, their troops can't be replaced easily and any major damage to manpower will give a huge blow to their fighting capability abroad, and they would certainly just retreat, then wait in their ranch for the enemy to come, and of course for the US to come for their rescue. I never recalled any major operation in real war where Australia mount an offensive on their own and successfully occupy anything on their own, they nearly always acted as an auxiliary to UK or to the US, always participating in someone else's war and join in as a sidekick.

I would prefer that we are in a good relation with these Aussies tho and if possible, be closer than that. I've said it before, but then they could act as a mediator for our business with the "West" especially US, while at the same time shut their damned mouth regarding our internal business. If Indonesian economy finally reach more than 2 Trillion USD and defense budget more than 20 billion USD, then that's where we should start getting more assertive towards these bloody muppets.


I don't think that's how it will turns out to be.

I second this, well said. They have the money but not enough human resource, we have alot of human resource but lacking in funding. God works in mysterious way isnt it LOL.

 

[Cromwell]

Micro recon helicopter for special forces

Credit to Fb page Lembaga Kajian Pertahanan Negara Strategis

 

[Gundala]

Australia should not be worry of our submarines! Why?

There are two reasons why Australia should not be worry on our subs :

1. Our submarines U209 has maximum range of 19000 km. Our coast line has 99093 km long (according to BIG).

99093/19000 = 5,2 rounded to 6 positions.

If 1 positions to be filled with 2 subs (1 unit on duty and 1 unit on alert or maintenance) therefore 6 x 2 = 12 submarines needed.

In this case, the purpose of our 12 submarines is only to guard our coastal line, preventing any evil infiltrations come into our islands, either from the surface of the ocean or down under the seas.

2. Time needed to build the submarines.
We already have 3 nagapasas for first batch. For the second batch of 3 unit needs 7 years (from 2019 plus 7 years comes to 2026). The third and fourth batch are also need 7 years each.

Current Nagapasas 3 unit
2019 - 2026 = 3 unit (2019+7 = 2026)
2026 - 2033 = 3 unit (2026+7 = 2033)
2033 - 2040 = 3 unit (2033+7 = 2040)

3+3+3+3 = 12

Thus all of these 12 submarines will be completed on 2040!

That is not just the case of how long we'll get the 12 subs. In case of conflict what worry them is with only 3 or even 4 subs concentrated on blocking their trade route will certainly hit their economy stability. Chasing 1 submarine require more then just 2 ships, thats why they have every reason to worry about us building submarine capability. And once we reach the point of making our own design and build it will even worry them more. Some even said that 1 sub has deterrence power effect equal to 10 surface ships, its not the hit power but the power projection needed to counter/eliminate that 1 subs threat. With current AShM/ASM technology 1 subs can create havoc on how to counter it.

Speaking of modern day Australian military, The Army currently has only 2 Division; 1st Division is for ground operations meanwhile 2nd Division is more of auxilliary units, reserve and administration however they invest heavily on RAAF & RAN, making the most powerfull military forces in the region. There's where we can get example and learn to build the forces, from Australia if not from Singapore.

Meanwhile TS-3002 return from overhaul in Belarus, July 28th 2019
View attachment 571278
Maskapai : ANTONOV Design Bureau (Cargo)
Nomer Penerbangan : ADB3159
Rute : HRI (Srilangka)-UPG(RON)
Crew : 20 WNA (Ukraine)

https://lancerdefense.com/2019/07/28/pesawat-tempur-su-30-tni-au-dikirim-dari-belarusia/

Its a hard habit to break. In orba era all the focus is mostly just army, this has been going on for far too long. MEF program is one of the first program to break the habbit and direct us to more comprehensive defense posture and force multiplier from all branch. Again still its a hard habit to break, in some cases military budget distribution still have to be alocated to fulfill the branch ego thus sidelining the bigger picture. But we are already making a progress in many ways, so keep that finger crossed

On the SU30 topic - I am very happy that now all the SU30 are in the same state of upgrade/capability. Tho I still can't hold my grudge to russ for not having silly sufficient customer support. Having to send the fighter overseas for repair is not helping their own industry to make sales. If somehow the purchase of SU35 still carry this kind of burden then I hope we can forget about it. Really pissing me off

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Micro recon helicopter for special forces
View attachment 571312
Credit to Fb page Lembaga Kajian Pertahanan Negara Strategis

Yohoho beli dulu 2-3 biji black hornet trus dites, lalu beli ratusan biji, kita butuh lebih dari 600 biji black hornet buat pasus.

Makanya tuh beberapa waktu lalu muncul tabel kalo AD butuh 1224 pesawat, ternyata separohnya buat heli imut-imut seperti ini.

 

[Cromwell]

A decade old documents on Federation of Russia state credit to Republic of Indonesia to procure arms made in Russia. All except Project 636 submarine went to our inventory.
Credit to Fb page Lembaga Kajian Pertahanan Strategis.

 

[umigami]

AN/APX-101(V) IFF in F-16 A/B Block 15 OCU
View attachment 571308 View attachment 571309 View attachment 571311

Is it the same with our block 25++ ??
What is the difference with bird slicer?

 

[Cromwell]

Is it the same with our block 25++ ??
What is the difference with bird slicer?

Bird slicer or AN/APX-109 is an advanced IFF compared with older AN/APX-101 we have. The advance IFF differs with conventional IFF is its capabillity to interrogate other aircraft, without interrogate capabillity, F-16 will need supporting systems such as ground based radars, awacs to conduct IFF interrogation.
Basically IFF has 5 modes, mode 1, 2, 3a, 3c, 4 and lately most advanced mode 5 for BVR
Mode 1 is assigned by the wing and identified by tail number
Mode 2 is pilot settable called as pilot identifier
Mode 3a is simillar to civilian transport aircrafts with ATC, ATC will direct the aircraft. In F-16 A/B it has panel in the cockpit while F-16 C/D through up front control
Mode 3c encoding altitude, IFF signals receive data from CADC & reports pressure altitude
Mode 4 is where IFF gets fame
Basically an aircraft will respond to interrogation it hears, if there's 10 aircrafts flying f.e can hear mode C, all 10 will all respond. IFF interrogating sorts out the confusion by tying IFF to radar.

Somewhere on your base, there's a big, red Air Traffic Control radar antenna turning in a circle. You'll notice that bolted to the top of this antenna is a much smaller antenna. That one's for IFF. So even though more than one aircraft may hear (and respond) to IFF interrogations, the ground (or AIFF) system keeps track of them all by displaying IFF information next to radar skin paints on the scope.

Australian embassy reports on AURI Tu-16 Badger in 1960s

Credit to Fb page Lembaga Keris

 

[Gundala]

Bird slicer or AN/APX-109 is an advanced IFF compared with older AN/APX-101 we have. The advance IFF differs with conventional IFF is its capabillity to interrogate other aircraft, without interrogate capabillity, F-16 will need supporting systems such as ground based radars, awacs to conduct IFF interrogation.
Basically IFF has 5 modes, mode 1, 2, 3a, 3c, 4 and lately most advanced mode 5 for BVR
Mode 1 is assigned by the wing and identified by tail number
Mode 2 is pilot settable called as pilot identifier
Mode 3a is simillar to civilian transport aircrafts with ATC, ATC will direct the aircraft. In F-16 A/B it has panel in the cockpit while F-16 C/D through up front control
Mode 3c encoding altitude, IFF signals receive data from CADC & reports pressure altitude
Mode 4 is where IFF gets fame
Basically an aircraft will respond to interrogation it hears, if there's 10 aircrafts flying f.e can hear mode C, all 10 will all respond. IFF interrogating sorts out the confusion by tying IFF to radar.

Somewhere on your base, there's a big, red Air Traffic Control radar antenna turning in a circle. You'll notice that bolted to the top of this antenna is a much smaller antenna. That one's for IFF. So even though more than one aircraft may hear (and respond) to IFF interrogations, the ground (or AIFF) system keeps track of them all by displaying IFF information next to radar skin paints on the scope.

Australian embassy reports on AURI Tu-16 Badger in 1960s
View attachment 571343 View attachment 571344
Credit to Fb page Lembaga Keris

Good ol'days for our Navy and Air Force, not so much for our "rakyat". And who said we have to look from other country to project our own force? Those 1960's defense purchased clearly showed where we should put our priority on. Well excluding those bombers

 

[Nike]

Good ol'days for our Navy and Air Force, not so much for our "rakyat". And who said we have to look from other country to project our own force? Those 1960's defense purchased clearly showed where we should put our priority on. Well excluding those bombers

Got bombers as deterrence toward Kareel dorman carrier battle group as they are armed with AShM, along with Beagle fleets of our Navy (less known) but with almost the same lethality as they are armed with air launched torps. If i concur, they are clearly know what is the threat and what kind of response needed toward the threat. If only Indonesia got much better economy condition at the times and industrial level to sustain such lethal forces