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Still waiting for the official statement from both countries. But those political buzzers on social media are already bragging about this incident as some kind of proof that our armed forces are 'weak' while the fact is that in the past few years our Navy's managed to catch a lot of illegal foreign vessels.

For now, I'm more curious about the SoP that TNI AL has when conducting this kind of pursuit/ramming. IMHO, In that video, our soldiers act unprofessionally:

1. Screaming bad words instead of giving the Vietnamese ship warning in English by using KRI's speakers
2. Looks like the soldiers at the deck didn't know what to do. Two soldiers are busy taking videos, some soldiers just stand there without taking any cover/firing positions, other soldiers tried to do some damage to the Vietnamese ship, and there is this dude in blue t-shirt casually walking and give the soldiers something (magz or radio perhaps???)

While i agree that the personnel onboard acted without any guidance/SOP, screaming and do things by their emotion, i too would also be surprised and angry with this kind of sudden ramming act, while not screaming things, i would do other other harsh thing tbh. I heard some radio transmission (or the ships' speakers?) in English in the video, of course between Viet and Indo vessels, so perhaps it's only the surprised soldier in the outer deck that do things on their own? while the formal communications was handled by the crew inside the command room?.

Anyway, these bad words are less insulting than ramming a patrolling fully-armed KRI ship for no reason, if we exclude deliberate provocation as the explanation of course. Even after the countless confrontations between Viet and Indo vessels before, they (Viet) didn't get the message we convey through all these sunk fishing boats, instead they becomes more bold or even outright challenge us, this is more insulting than swearing sailors (swearing sailors is a thing worldwide). Honestly, maybe it's true that TNI AL didn't have a SOP for this kind of act, they might not expect this kind of boldness, ramming armed corvette all of sudden, but who will expect this? the last time there's confrontation with the Viet, they only dared to shield their fishing boats, but now this?
 
Well its clear that the crew abide not to shot first. Anyway a visual proof would be usefull, it shows to the people and government on the reality our men are facing in the frontline.

Anyway where are our 80m opv's???

Still fitting and sea trial, but 3 ships is far cry from enough, need at least three dozen of them
 
Still fitting and sea trial, but 3 ships is far cry from enough, need at least three dozen of them
Just my idea. Why dont we convert trawlers for opv's at least until our shipyards manage to fill the gaps, the vietnamese one seems to be a repurposed trawler or some sort

While i agree that the personnel onboard acted without any guidance/SOP, screaming and do things by their emotion, i too would also be surprised and angry with this kind of sudden ramming act, while not screaming things, i would do other other harsh thing tbh. I heard some radio transmission (or the ships' speakers?) in English in the video, of course between Viet and Indo vessels, so perhaps it's only the surprised soldier in the outer deck that do things on their own? while the formal communications was handled by the crew inside the command room?.

Anyway, these bad words are less insulting than ramming a patrolling fully-armed KRI ship for no reason, if we exclude deliberate provocation as the explanation of course. Even after the countless confrontations between Viet and Indo vessels before, they (Viet) didn't get the message we convey through all these sunk fishing boats, instead they becomes more bold or even outright challenge us, this is more insulting than swearing sailors (swearing sailors is a thing worldwide). Honestly, maybe it's true that TNI AL didn't have a SOP for this kind of act, they might not expect this kind of boldness, ramming armed corvette all of sudden, but who will expect this? the last time there's confrontation with the Viet, they only dared to shield their fishing boats, but now this?
Yes if we hear closely. The ship loudspeaker appear to give some sorts of warnings.
 
Just my idea. Why dont we convert trawlers for opv's at least until our shipyards manage to fill the gaps, the vietnamese one seems to be a repurposed trawler or some sort

Not good enough for high ops tempo and just look at their awkward movements and design not accomodating for release of rhib boats and other policing purpose at open seas. Purpose built (even basic entry level) patrol ships is still better than repurposing trawler or oiler, if not we got a large number of bulk carrier cargo vessels much larger and heavier than any Vietnamese vessels can offer in dwt
 
This (yet again) kind of incident could motivate the Navy and Coast Guard further to send out their latest large ships, such as KRI Martadinata class and Bakamla 110m class to deter these MFs more from doing this sh*t again. Perhaps it will open the eyes of the policymakers and the officers that diplomacy alone sometimes didn't work, in these times, it is better for Indonesia to adopt this proven effective strategy : "Speak softly, and carry a big stick".

While certainly politicians and their annoying supporters would stir up the incident to criticize the incumbent, it could also be a good argument and motivation for the incumbent and his cabinet to seriously buff up the military even further, and specifically for this water encroaching issue, build up the Natuna integrated military base and develop into a truly strategic asset for TNI's operation in the South China Sea frontier, or just like some TNI upper brass said : Indonesian Pearl Harbour.
 
Reenactment of Soviet navy ship ramming Us navy ship.
-2019(colorized)
No, the Kris will be reserved for the most interesting and ambitious moment, not over this act of un-self-awareness. I prefer a B I G S T I C K as bluntness in speech and action are valued in their culture, so it's a better tool to convey our messages to them.
 
Anggota Polisi Militer (PM) Kodam Iskandar Muda bersama aktivis lingkungan dan tim Conservation Response Unit (CRU) Sampoiniet dibantu gajah jinak melaksanakan operasi penegakan ketertiban (Gaktib) di kawasan hutan Ulue Masen, Aceh Jaya, Aceh, Sabtu (27/4/2019). Operasi gabungan yang melibatkan aparat TNI dan Balai Konservasi Sumber Daya Alam (BKSDA) Aceh ini digelar guna menjaga kelestarian alam dan satwa liar dari ancaman kepunahan.

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https://foto.kompas.com/photo/read/...a-Gajah-Amankan-Hutan-Aceh-Jaya#&gid=1&pid=10
 
Yes, while i'm not really knowledgeable in military radars and electronics (only basic PESA-AESA, datalinking, avionics kind of stuffs) my short look on their websites and product profile videos impressed me a little bit, i feel that they take their work more seriously that the like of Thales and they really wanted to sell their best latest stuffs to us, also, i'm interested if we can use their service to help with our plan for network-centric warfare. I'm still unsure about the RBS-15s or the Kongsberg NSM tho, but looking at their specs made me kinda interested, especially NSM with it's trajectory configuration, and also it's test firing video, seems to pack quite a punch for it's size.

Exocet is a go-to AShM, it is not particularly special in any way, but it works, it's reputation is well established and already have the bragging right of being "battle-proven", it also could be ordered in one package with the VL MICA (i prefer Aster tbh, it have more room for growth and more variant), so the Navy bought Exocets for the familiarity and convenience, perhaps also because they are still hesitant to try out new things.

I assume that SAAB are the best in support equipments like radars, software and electronics, something like that, and their small arms products also revolve around the support role, most famously the Anti-Tank role, where NLAW and Carl Gustaf could be a great addition to TNI-AD's stockpile, as we currently short on effective one-shot AT missiles , and versatile recoilless guns like the Carl Gustaf will be a nice (basically necessary) thing to equip every infantry battalions, while for reusable launcher ATGMs, i prefer Javelin more (we need all these in thousands, much cheaper than tanks, could one-kill it, only with these infantry strong army could make sense), but for MANPADS, i liked the South Korean Chiron more than RBS-70s and Mistrals.



Standardization of airframes is logical thing to do in logistical point of view, as marketed performance is not the only attribute of an aircraft and not the only thing considered in their purchase, even the Americans realized this and went on with the single airframe F-35 concept (far from perfect! but at least they threw enough cash into the project so it could work eventually) even though they are more than capable to maintain their massive and diverse selection of aircrafts.

I don't really want the Gripen tbh, and i prefer F-16Vs more (if it's can really be proven that their electronics is THAT good, and still can be relevant in 20-30 years, as i worry about their old airframe design), but Gripen's hard marketing (and they really took it to a great length specifically for their potential customer) and video demonstrations pressured me to reconsider it over the F-16s, i can't help it lol. They marketed themselves as low cost in the long run model that able to operate efficiently even in improvised airstrip, ideal for operation from inner Kalimantan dan Papua.

I think we should really optimize out F-16s airframes' number and integration of latest techs, preferably at least 64 F-16Vs (new and upgraded airframes). TNI AU seems to like US' stuffs (or western stuff in general), so there's nothing to worry about their "tendency". But of course, we have to wait until the government finally come to their senses regarding the defense budget, when it will be around 1.5% of GDP. Flankers are here simply because the Air Force wanted to have a second option if the US embargoed us again, there are no guarantee they will not dictate how we use their weapons, like in Pakistan's case where they are not allowed to use their F-16s against India.

Indonesia is somewhat leaning towards the west in military hardware, even South Korean stuffs we bought is largely based on western models, the only part of TNI not leaning towards the west is the Marines, who are diehard fans of Russian amphibious vehicles and AK series/derivatives. Furthermore, upcoming acquisitions are dominated by western hardwares (of course duh), like the acquisition for 4 tankers already goes to KC-46 Pegasus, and the AEW&C is still undecided but already narrow down to 3 candidates, Wedgetail, SAAB Globaleye, and C295 AEW&C. I prefer the Wedgetail, but many pointed out that C295 is the most likely to be chosen, as PT DI is very familiar with the model and getting ToT could be much easier. With this path of development, i hoped Indonesia could catch the US' eyes and be considered a strategic partner in Asia-Pacific for them, so that there will more option to their weapons and less worry for embargoes. Being a simply "casual customer" or straight up US puppet are both dangerous

Wait, am i straying too far from the topic? ah, sorry, it's night and i'm sleepy while i write this reply, anyway i'm simply sharing my view and opinion.

Our F16s will be at least 80 units or more.

For AEW&C aquisition will depend on the purpose how the range will be gain, will they only to serve in
a) Indonesian teritorry including EEZ, or
b) also for serving far beyond our EEZ?

If only to serve in point a, C295 platform will be used.
If point b, wedgetail will be chosen.

Both will be chosen but who will be chosen first?

The connection : Boeing - GMF - our boeing planes.

Our boeing fixed wing planes : VVIP, tanker, AEW&C, strategic maritim patrol aircraft (poseidon?)


The connection : Airbus - PTDI - our fixed wing aircrafts

Our fixed wing aircrafts : cn235, cn295 for transportation and for tactical maritim patrol aircrafts).

From my calculation, we need at least 10 unit of C295 AEW&Cs plus 2-4 unit of Wedgetail.
 
If only to serve in point a, C295 platform will be used.
If point b, wedgetail will be chosen.

Both will be chosen but who will be chosen first?

That's not how it's going to be chosen.

How it's going to work is who is going to offer the most kickbacks to everybody, who's cheaper, and who's going to meet the requirement. In that EXACT order.

From my calculation, we need at least 10 unit of C295 AEW&Cs plus 2-4 unit of Wedgetail.

No we don't. We really only need 4-6 Wedgetails that's datalinked to a ground control intercept radar network and simultansouely a credible AA network of point defense SHORADS, MANPADS, and medium range AD. We don't need a lot of AWACS, they're not going to suddenly be effective in warding off airspace violators. If anything we should be spending money on P-8's or hell even trying to get Compass Call EW aircraft.
 
Our F16s will be at least 80 units or more.

For AEW&C aquisition will depend on the purpose how the range will be gain, will they only to serve in
a) Indonesian teritorry including EEZ, or
b) also for serving far beyond our EEZ?

If only to serve in point a, C295 platform will be used.
If point b, wedgetail will be chosen.

Both will be chosen but who will be chosen first?

The connection : Boeing - GMF - our boeing planes.

Our boeing fixed wing planes : VVIP, tanker, AEW&C, strategic maritim patrol aircraft (poseidon?)


The connection : Airbus - PTDI - our fixed wing aircrafts

Our fixed wing aircrafts : cn235, cn295 for transportation and for tactical maritim patrol aircrafts).

From my calculation, we need at least 10 unit of C295 AEW&Cs plus 2-4 unit of Wedgetail.

That's not how it's going to be chosen.

How it's going to work is who is going to offer the most kickbacks to everybody, who's cheaper, and who's going to meet the requirement. In that EXACT order.



No we don't. We really only need 4-6 Wedgetails that's datalinked to a ground control intercept radar network and simultansouely a credible AA network of point defense SHORADS, MANPADS, and medium range AD. We don't need a lot of AWACS, they're not going to suddenly be effective in warding off airspace violators. If anything we should be spending money on P-8's or hell even trying to get Compass Call EW aircraft.

Can AWACS also perform ground surveillance and EW functions?

We also need to start looking for replacing our aging 737 Surveillance and perhaps we also need to consider buying dedicated electronic warfare aircraft
 
That's not how it's going to be chosen.

How it's going to work is who is going to offer the most kickbacks to everybody, who's cheaper, and who's going to meet the requirement. In that EXACT order.



No we don't. We really only need 4-6 Wedgetails that's datalinked to a ground control intercept radar network and simultansouely a credible AA network of point defense SHORADS, MANPADS, and medium range AD. We don't need a lot of AWACS, they're not going to suddenly be effective in warding off airspace violators. If anything we should be spending money on P-8's or hell even trying to get Compass Call EW aircraft.

Boeing 737 VIP, KC46, Wedgetail and Poseidon could formed one squadron and still support logistic spare part each other.

On the other hand, EW aircrafts? Do you mean like Growlers? We don't have their supporting logisctic aircrafts like Hornets. You are not consistence, ain't ya?
You fight against A400 aquisition for logistic reason but now you recommend EW aircrafts (like Growlers) which are also will make logistics nightmare.
 
That's not how it's going to be chosen.

How it's going to work is who is going to offer the most kickbacks to everybody, who's cheaper, and who's going to meet the requirement. In that EXACT order.



No we don't. We really only need 4-6 Wedgetails that's datalinked to a ground control intercept radar network and simultansouely a credible AA network of point defense SHORADS, MANPADS, and medium range AD. We don't need a lot of AWACS, they're not going to suddenly be effective in warding off airspace violators. If anything we should be spending money on P-8's or hell even trying to get Compass Call EW aircraft.

I agree that it's better to just choose the one with highest spec and stick to it, at least (bar minimum) 4 Wedgetail is enough for Indonesia's western territory, only if we have that much spare money we could pursue the acquisition of additional AEW&C aircraft to cover all of Indonesia's territory 24/7. I personally prefer the Wedgetail tho, as it have some quality that make it more interesting than other candidates, at least for me. C295 plaform is not so bad, and our requirement for maritime surveillance can also be filled with this aircraft platform with the Rotodome radar. But i think it's not enough, for the vast maritime territory and airspace of Indonesia, bigger and jet-powered platform is better for it's superior flight characteristics.

There are slight advantage in choosing the Wedgetail 737, as it have very abundant source of spareparts (at least for it's airframe) excluding the AEW&C suite of course, the Air Force, PT DI and Garuda could maintain it with no problem. Even though PT DI is very capable in maintaining and producing spareparts for the C295, in this case, we can't use the same aircraft platform as the one we already use for maritime patrol, AEW&C role is at higher strategic value, therefore it must use platform of higher flight performance to maximize it's capability, 737 platform with AEW&C suite offer larger radar coverage and better flight characteristics than a C295, there's a reason why Australia chose this model to cover it's enormous geography both land and maritime, and our requirement will not that far-off from them, even more so considering our maritime boundary.

C295 AEW&C is mostly used by European countries and Israel, their requirement are very different from us, as they use it mainly for overland and shorter range mission, so using propellers does make more sense for them. But in our case, even though various propellers models with rotodome is not necessarily worse, in this tender, just like what Mr.Chestnut said, cost and ease of maintenance indeed is a huge factor in choosing the model, but the one with overall better performance will be prioritized over saving some budget, better just saving the budget for the most qualified stuff than saving it for cheaper model but end up being mediocre in performance. Besides, having Wedgetails in our fleets will make it easier to integrate the P-8 Poseidon (Neptunus perhaps?) into our fleets in the future if the Air Force ever have a requirement for larger maritime surveillance aircraft (also electronic warfare aircraft perhaps? EC-130H?).
 
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Ground support aircraft like Raytheon sentinel or JSTARS will be good for our ground units
 
Boeing 737 VIP, KC46, Wedgetail and Poseidon could formed one squadron and still support logistic spare part each other.

On the other hand, EW aircrafts? Do you mean like Growlers? We don't have their supporting logisctic aircrafts like Hornets. You are not consistence, ain't ya?
You fight against A400 aquisition for logistic reason but now you recommend EW aircrafts (like Growlers) which are also will make logistics nightmare.

I'm guessing reading isn't your strong suit, considering not only do you make a lot of bad procurement suggestions but now you didnt even look that I did not even mention the Growler.

I hope you realize that the Growler is not the only EW aircraft in the US military.

There's also the F-16CJ and the EC-130H. Considering were going to need more fighters it would be better to repurpose some of the old H Hercs into the EW role.

I'll say it again, actually study defense. And maybe this time from something other than a movie or a video game.

Ground support aircraft like Raytheon sentinel or JSTARS will be good for our ground units

100x this.

We should really start looking for more force multiplier aircraft. Hell maybe even integrate PASKHAS JTAC's into the Army and Marine Corps TOE. Interoperability is the name of the game and yet a lot of older army officers are resistant towards it all because of so called inter-branch "prestige".
 

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