Indonesia Defence Forum

[initial_d]

In 18 years a 5th gen one in the size of a KFX..inll not much... only one tbh who can be available for sell on the market...the FC-31. ( and This one will be available in few years.)

As for Rafale and F-16... Well F-16 can do the job...but the Rafale can do it better ( an almost perfect balance btw a F-16 and Su-35) and it's a younger platform with incoming upgrade packs ( and already complet package with AESA etc...) while F-16 is at his end.

I seriously doubt Indonesia will ever buy FC-31, do you realise that China mostly will be a threat to indonesia rather than Australia, India or even the united states, and if we are talking about 5th gen fighter, if we can't buy F-35 there's still pakfa on the table.
F-16 < KFX
SU27-30 < PAK FA
It's still use the same recipe of mixed western and Russian hardware

 

[striver44]

Allied Forces advanced pass an abandoned Indonesian pillbox in Soerabaja, November 1945

 

[HannibalBarca]

I seriously doubt Indonesia will ever buy FC-31, do you realise that China mostly will be a threat to indonesia rather than Australia, India or even the united states, and if we are talking about 5th gen fighter, if we can't buy F-35 there's still pakfa on the table.
F-16 < KFX
SU27-30 < PAK FA
It's still use the same recipe of mixed western and Russian hardware

I don't think the PAK will be for sell outside of RU and India... It will be the same as F-35 a critical tech... But FC-31 could be sold via KSA or Pakistan in the future... no need via China. FC31 is made for export... It will survive only via export... That's his bizness plan...

China is becoming a strategic partner to the ME and therefore an indirect one to Indonesia/Malaysia... It will not be a direct enemy, but diplomatic conflicts could arise, that's possible ( like south china sea per exemple)

 

[initial_d]

I don't think the PAK will be for sell outside of RU and India... It will be the same as F-35 a critical tech... But FC-31 could be sold via KSA or Pakistan in the future... no need via China. FC31 is made for export... It will survive only via export... That's his bizness plan...

China is becoming a strategic partner to the ME and therefore an indirect one to Indonesia/Malaysia... It will not be a direct enemy, but diplomatic conflicts could arise, that's possible ( like south china sea per exemple)

Are you serious, the Russian will sell you anything for money, beside they already said gonna sell 600-1000 pak fa for export

 

[HannibalBarca]

Are you serious, the Russian will sell you anything for money, beside they already said gonna sell 600-1000 pak fa for export

ANything for money... Nope they don't... Russians sell you what THEY don't need to keep next to them anymore... When a Tech is not up to date for them , they will sell it to you. They are keeping Critical techs next to them for a good period of time and when they start dev somthing better, they will put it in the market... that's the basic Biz plan for Def...

As for Pak FA, RU & India gonna have theirs first, meaning NO sell before 2030-2033... And after that they will decide Yes or Not to sell for export... Then you will get Few years of negociations and then first delivery... If everything goes according to plan/time you will have one maybe around 2036-2040... (Best case)

Can you wait till this date?
Or do you prefer a 5th gen one available for export around 2023-25 with some ToT or Licencing possibilities...
You choice...

 

[initial_d]

ANything for money... Nope they don't... Russians sell you what THEY don't need to keep next to them anymore... When a Tech is not up to date for them , they will sell it to you. They are keeping Critical techs next to them for a good period of time and when they start dev somthing better, they will put it in the market... that's the basic Biz plan for Def...

As for Pak FA, RU & India gonna have theirs first, meaning NO sell before 2030-2033... And after that they will decide Yes or Not to sell for export... Then you will get Few years of negociations and then first delivery... If everything goes according to plan/time you will have one maybe around 2036-2040... (Best case)

Can you wait till this date?
Or do you prefer a 5th gen one available for export around 2023-25 with some ToT or Licencing possibilities...
You choice...

Why do you sound like Chinese PR men or salesmen lol, trust me, what ever you said about the availlability of F-35 or Pak Fa, we are not gonna buys FC-31, I am sure about it

 

[pr1v4t33r]

A Story from Scratch to Delivery of 2-units PC-40
KRI Torani-860 (BV 29427N) & KRI Lepu-861 (BV 29428P), built by PT. Karimun Anugrah Sejati (Batam - INDONESIA) for INDONESIAN NAVY, and Certified by Bureau Veritas Classification.

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[HannibalBarca]

Why do you sound like Chinese PR men or salesmen lol, trust me, what ever you said about the availlability of F-35 or Pak Fa, we are not gonna buys FC-31, I am sure about it

Tbh I don't really care about Fc-31 it was just as a convo btw us and the aspect of "available" 5th gen aircraft and their utility in Indo air force.

 

[Bungaterakhir]

ANything for money... Nope they don't... Russians sell you what THEY don't need to keep next to them anymore... When a Tech is not up to date for them , they will sell it to you. They are keeping Critical techs next to them for a good period of time and when they start dev somthing better, they will put it in the market... that's the basic Biz plan for Def...

As for Pak FA, RU & India gonna have theirs first, meaning NO sell before 2030-2033... And after that they will decide Yes or Not to sell for export... Then you will get Few years of negociations and then first delivery... If everything goes according to plan/time you will have one maybe around 2036-2040... (Best case)

Can you wait till this date?
Or do you prefer a 5th gen one available for export around 2023-25 with some ToT or Licencing possibilities...
You choice...

with the dynamics of world politic and economic stability anything can happen in the future. but what make it doesn't make sense is you really know "The Decision of SELL OR NO FOR EXPORT" . that's doesn't sound so good for basic BIZ PLAN of DEF tho.

 

[HannibalBarca]

with the dynamics of world politic and economic stability anything can happen in the future. but what make it doesn't make sense is you really know "The Decision of SELL OR NO FOR EXPORT" . that's doesn't sound so good for basic BIZ PLAN of DEF tho.

Like I said previously... it's based if no war or deep conflict arise in the region...
And Yes , you can "really know" if the future is staying at it was since the beginning of this century...

But the moment war happen or somthing similar...then even the best among geopolitical genius minds will not found out...

I'm sure of nothing... but one thing Iam Indonesia will not get F-35 anytime soon, neither the Pak Fa... you have to wait at least the other customers to get their pcs first.. so beyond 2035-2040... after that we will see...

 

[Star Bugs]

In 18 years a 5th gen one in the size of a KFX... well not much... only one tbh who can be available for sell on the market...the FC-31. ( and This one will be available in few years.)

As for Rafale and F-16... Well F-16 can do the job...but the Rafale can do it better ( an almost perfect balance btw a F-16 and Su-35) and it's a younger platform with incoming upgrade packs ( and already complet package with AESA etc...) while F-16 is at his end.

How come Turkey doesn't have Rafale? Turkish Airforce is dominated by F-16s. Btw, are you Turkish? How come you are not promoting your own TFX. You are promoting Chinese and French products instead.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Pelepasan kapal perang ssv #2 ke Filipina, sekalian sea trials

 

[HannibalBarca]

How come Turkey doesn't have Rafale? Turkish Airforce is dominated by F-16s. Btw, are you Turkish? How come you are not promoting your own TFX. You are promoting Chinese and French products instead.

TFX is still in dev for the next decade & + ...
We were speaking about what is available today or shortly soon.

With Rafale as a 4-4.5th Gen aircraft ( a good balance btw F-16 & Su35) meaning instead of having 2 different platform with 2 different support, the Rafale was a 1in2. (And a common share with Malaysia, meaning less $ in support and better available parts)

As for 5th gen, Where it was said, Indonesia would buy F-35, and I said, it will not be available at least for 2035-2040 when every "Today" customers get theirs... Same for PakFa... So the only 5th gen solution available shortly will be FC-31, And that could come with ToT or/& Licencing.

PS: It was an opinion about a subject, in anyway it was meant to push or anger some of you...

 

[pr1v4t33r]

To be very frank with u, rafale is expensive.. We are looking for affordable solution, that is within budget, within requirement and ready to provide some kind of transfer of technology or offset for our defense industry. That's all.

Btw, FNSS will reaveal MMWT (modern medium weight tank) in cooperation with PINDAD, in IDEF 2017, May 9-12.

 

[HannibalBarca]

To be very frank with u, rafale is expensive.. We are looking for affordable solution, that is within budget, within requirement and ready to provide some kind of transfer of technology or offset for our defense industry. That's all.

Well Rafale is equal to the price of a Su-35. Both are around the 80Mil$ Mark.
But you have a Rafale being a True Multitask aircraft, with a little less armement/range but better avionics and platform overall.