Indonesia Defence Forum

[Jakartans@PkDef]

Not two you need several more Squadrons of either SU-30 or SU-35 at least 7 or 8

I'm talking about the price comparison here.
We can have 2 squadrons of Su-35 at the same price with 1 squadron of F-35.
If we have the budget to acquire 8 squadrons of Su-35 today, we better cut it to 4 squadrons and spent the rest of the money to build formidable air defense system with S-400 SAM's.

Our aim is to build sufficient defensive posture with balanced numbers of Air-Sea-Land military systems emphasizing in maritime forces. Indonesia is an archipelago nation with over 18000 islands, stretched over 5,271 km (3,275 miles) from west to east (in comparison : USA is 2,680 miles from west coast to east coast, from the westernmost part of Pakistan to easternmost part of India is 4,808 km) with that size, only 3 superpower country can maintain air superiority on our airspace. If we are to sort this thing into details, Singapore Air Force or RAAF may gain some air superiority in some area of Indonesia but cannot sustain it for a period of time in wider area since both army doesn't have enough ground power to be projected as sufficient invasion forces in our land.

In other part, if we go into open war with the superpowers, say China or USA, even 7-8 squadrons of 1st line jet fighters will not enough since they can simply overpowering us by long-ranged missile barrages.
It will come to the asymmetric warfare. In doing this, a country must have strong support and backup from its people.
By spending budget to build such 'dream-team' air squadrons and other sophisticated weapons we will drain our economy and at the end will create poverty which leads to insurgency and disintegration of our country.

Learning from what happens in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Syria, a country with internal turbulence is easy to be conquered since the superpower could exploit the internal conflict simply by sponsoring one faction through direct or indirect supplies of war materials.
Beside that, in South East Asian level, having 8 squadrons of Su-35 can be translated as having territorial ambition.

This is what ASEAN is all about, we are trying to create a region without having one hegemony power among us.
By keeping our military building pace in quantity not exceeding the defensive needs, we can avoid the disaster of getting into arms race which will cripple our economy and creates unnecessary instability or security threats.

wait a sec bro, you're not confuse ASW helos with CSAR helos right? since my article is about Panther ASW helos not Cougar CSAR helos

damn! i completely lost track and mix it with the Cougar CSAR .. very sorry, my mistake.
Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Harkness]

damn! i completely lost track and mix it with the Cougar CSAR .. very sorry, my mistake.
Thanks for the reminder.

haha no problemo bro. makanya ane juga bingung kenapa panther asw kok nyambungnya ke kasau sama paskhas

 

[Nike]

I'm talking about the price comparison here.
We can have 2 squadrons of Su-35 at the same price with 1 squadron of F-35.
If we have the budget to acquire 8 squadrons of Su-35 today, we better cut it to 4 squadrons and spent the rest of the money to build formidable air defense system with S-400 SAM's.

Our aim is to build sufficient defensive posture with balanced numbers of Air-Sea-Land military systems emphasizing in maritime forces. Indonesia is an archipelago nation with over 18000 islands, stretched over 5,271 km (3,275 miles) from west to east (in comparison : USA is 2,680 miles from west coast to east coast, from the westernmost part of Pakistan to easternmost part of India is 4,808 km) with that size, only 3 superpower country can maintain air superiority on our airspace. If we are to sort this thing into details, Singapore Air Force or RAAF may gain some air superiority in some area of Indonesia but cannot sustain it for a period of time in wider area since both army doesn't have enough ground power to be projected as sufficient invasion forces in our land.

In other part, if we go into open war with the superpowers, say China or USA, even 7-8 squadrons of 1st line jet fighters will not enough since they can simply overpowering us by long-ranged missile barrages.
It will come to the asymmetric warfare. In doing this, a country must have strong support and backup from its people.
By spending budget to build such 'dream-team' air squadrons and other sophisticated weapons we will drain our economy and at the end will create poverty which leads to insurgency and disintegration of our country.

Learning from what happens in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Syria, a country with internal turbulence is easy to be conquered since the superpower could exploit the internal conflict simply by sponsoring one faction through direct or indirect supplies of war materials.
Beside that, in South East Asian level, having 8 squadrons of Su-35 can be translated as having territorial ambition.

This is what ASEAN is all about, we are trying to create a region without having one hegemony power among us.
By keeping our military building pace in quantity not exceeding the defensive needs, we can avoid the disaster of getting into arms race which will cripple our economy and creates unnecessary instability or security threats.


damn! i completely lost track and mix it with the Cougar CSAR .. very sorry, my mistake.
Thanks for the reminder.

for the bold parts

Don't think so, i think our economical prowess is more than enough to sustain more than 15 fighter squadron without sacrificing budget for economic development. You can see Turkey, Vietnam and other country with less or similar economic posture with us.

As i has say before, even the dream of Indonesian Air Force is more larger than what Zarvan has envisioned before, Indonesia air force likely will modelling themselves to ROKAF and SAF.

 

[nufix]

KH 179 155mm Howitzer

 

[katarabhumi]

^
+

These will be deployed in borders. Indonesia is also ordering Caesar cannons caliber 155mm from France.

http://arc.web.id/berita/626-selamat-datang-kh-179.html

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

Don't think so, i think our economical prowess is more than enough to sustain more than 15 fighter squadron without sacrificing budget for economic development. You can see Turkey, Vietnam and other country with less or similar economic posture with us.

Sustaining 15 fighter squadron is different than purchasing 15 fighter squadron all at once. Zarvan suggested us to have 7-8 1st liner fighter squadron. My explanation is based on the current situation regarding our MEF program (to have the balance mixture of standard defensive posture in sea-air-land elements in 15 years time-frame since the 1st renstra). Right now, having 7-8 fighter squadrons consisting of the 1st liner air superiority fighter (Su-30 or above) is only relevance if we are talking in the time frame from 5 to 20 years from now.

 

[Nike]

Sustaining 15 fighter squadron is different than purchasing 15 fighter squadron all at once. Zarvan suggested us to have 7-8 1st liner fighter squadron. My explanation is based on the current situation regarding our MEF program (to have the balance mixture of standard defensive posture in sea-air-land elements in 15 years time-frame since the 1st renstra). Right now, having 7-8 fighter squadrons consisting of the 1st liner air superiority fighter (Su-30 or above) is only relevance if we are talking in the time frame from 5 to 20 years from now.

Doesn't think so, we are not that poor for waiting another 5 to 20 years to purchase 7 to 8 fighter squadrons in some multi years scheme like Saudi or UAE. With more than 180 billion US Dollar Government spending we just spend a little more 8 billion US dollar for military spending.

We are preferring butter than gun, we are not balancing our spending. That's what is matter. Our defense spending is behind 0.8 percent of our GDP (in Rupiah nominal), that's sucks. For eternity, we can't lie waiting like now, we need to move and boost our defense spending. We can spent it in much wiser way, like giving the military order for National Industry company such as PTDI or PINDAD, that's way we can make the budget to generate Economy and National Income and boost research spending.

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

KH 179 155mm Howitzer

We should get more of 155 mm artillery weapons, our army is lacking of heavy firepower. We need at least 10 battalion of 155 mm artillery to defend our land-borders.

 

[Nike]

We should get more of 155 mm artillery weapons, our army is lacking of heavy firepower. We need at least 10 battalion of 155 mm artillery to defend our land-borders.

CMIIW, surely we needed more than 10 battalion of 155 mm arty, but it is not for deploying them in our border. It will be much used to support our infantry and armored column units either to attacking the enemy in their soil or to defend our land.

 

[MarveL]

TNI’s Apache choppers to be equipped with Lockheed technology
Bagus BT Saragih, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | National | Tue, May 06 2014, 2:07 PM

US-based aerospace and security company Lockheed Martin has announced it had won a US$80.6 million contract, which includes the production of night vision technology for eight Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters ordered by Indonesia.

The contract covers eight Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensor (M-TADS/PNVS) systems for the US Army and nine systems for the Indonesian Army, according to a press release published at Lockheed’s official website Lockheed Martin · Lockheed Martin on May 5.

Indonesia is the 13th international customer to purchase the M-TADS/PNVS system. The contract extends production in Orlando and Ocala, Fla., through July 2016, the release states.

“Being able to 'bundle' our procurement with one of our Foreign Military Sales partners increases our buying power,” said Lt. Col. Steven Van Riper, US Army Apache Sensors Product Manager.

“The M-TADS/PNVS system is helping save lives of our US and allied troops by giving Apache pilots the ability to engage targets accurately, and by improving situational awareness,” added Matt Hoffman, M-TADS/PNVS program director at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control, as quoted in the statement.

The confirmation of the sales of eight Apache helicopters and Longbow radars worth US$500 million to the Indonesian Military (TNI) was made during a bilateral meeting between Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro and US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel in Jakarta in August, last year.

The deal includes pilot training, radars and maintenance. The helicopters are scheduled to arrive in Indonesia in phases from October 2014 to 2017.

The TNI has said it would base some of the Apaches in remote border areas such as in Natuna in the Riau Islands.

Lockheed states that the M-TADS/PNVS, which was fielded in 2005, is a targeting and pilotage system that provides Apache pilots with long-range, precision engagement and pilotage capabilities for safe flight during day, night and adverse weather missions. Lockheed Martin has delivered more than 1,200 M-TADS/PNVS systems and spares to the U.S. Army and international customers.

The Apache deal with the US marked a turn around in the Jakarta-Washington defense cooperation as it served as the largest military sale from the US since the country lifted its embargo on selling lethal arms to Indonesia in 2005.

Washington said it was determined to help build the capability of the TNI as part of its bid to enhance security ties with its Asia Pacific friends and reshape its role in the region amid Beijing’s growing military clout and territorial assertiveness.

TNI’s Apache choppers to be equipped with Lockheed technology | The Jakarta Post

 

[Indos]

Doesn't think so, we are not that poor for waiting another 5 to 20 years to purchase 7 to 8 fighter squadrons in some multi years scheme like Saudi or UAE. With more than 180 billion US Dollar Government spending we just spend a little more 8 billion US dollar for military spending.

We are preferring butter than gun, we are not balancing our spending. That's what is matter. Our defense spending is behind 0.8 percent of our GDP (in Rupiah nominal), that's sucks. For eternity, we can't lie waiting like now, we need to move and boost our defense spending. We can spent it in much wiser way, like giving the military order for National Industry company such as PTDI or PINDAD, that's way we can make the budget to generate Economy and National Income and boost research spending.

We can get huge money by eliminating all oil subsidy and change all of the diesel generator in PLN into gas, PLN consume 1/3 of our oil subsidy. But it lets to our new government to be serious on it. At least we can get Rp 200 trillion per year to do much thing. Gas price is only 1/3 oil price, so we have ineffective economic policy, while in the same time we export our new gas reserve just like in Donggi Senoro (75 % is going to be exported, the policy made by SBY where we know that Dahlan Iskan before had asked SBY to allocate all of the gas of Donggi Senoro for PLN)

Focusing on gas infrastructure and prioritizing all of our gas reserve into domestic needs is the best agenda that the next President can have for saving huge money. But there is another constrain in term of our currency value if we want to boost military spending so fast (if we really have the money) , too much import can hurt our currency as we can see the impact last year.

So, because of trade and currency constrain, it would be better to have the increase of military spending in a step by step process which can benefit our military industry and our economy better. Just wait for our KFX/IFX, inshaALLAH, so that we can spend our money into the benefit of our aerospace industry, other local defense companies, our universities like ITB, our people working there, and our engineers.

Dont want to see the same mistake Indonesia made in the past, where we just can buy weapon from Turkey but not making it like Japan, that made us become Dutch colony for so long time.

 

[MarveL]

TNI Commander opened the Joint Exercise Sea Border Security of the Indonesia-Malaysia

TNI chief Gen. Dr. Moeldoko opened a Join Exercise Sea Border Security Operation between Indonesia and Malaysia via teleconference, in the operational center (Operation Control Centre) Cilangkap TNI headquarters, Wednesday (05/07/2014).


Panglima TNI Buka Latgab Pengamanan Perbatasan Laut Indonesia-Malaysia - Tribunnews.com

 

[Harkness]

India committed to furthering close defence ties with Indonesia: Envoy
Gurjit Singh said presence of two commanders-in-chief of the two navies at both the opening and closing ceremonies made this the highest level of interaction

IANS | Jakarta May 7, 2014 Last Updated at 17:33 IST

Jakarta, May 7 (IANS) As the navies of India and Indonesia engaged in a joint exercise on the waters off Indonesia, India's Ambassador Gurjit Singh said the country is committed to furthering close defence ties with Indonesia.

Speaking at the closing ceremony of the 23rd edition of the joint naval exercise between the two countries, code-named INDINDO CORPAT, earlier this month, Ambassador Singh expressed his confidence that the contemporary strategic partnership between these two maritime neighbours would be strengthened in the future, according to an Indian embassy statement issued Wednesday.

Singh pointed out that the presence of the two commanders-in-chief of the two navies at both the opening and closing ceremonies made this the highest level of interaction during the INDINDO CORPAT between the two navies since its inception.

He added that the Indian embassy in Jakarta under his leadership was committed to furthering the close defence ties the two countries enjoy.

The 23rd edition of INDINDO CORPAT started at Port Blair in India's Andaman & Nicobar Islands April 14 and concluded in the port city Belwan-Medan, in Indonesia's Sumatra May 3.

Under the broad ambit of a bilateral strategic partnership, Indonesia's navy TNI AL and the Indian Navy carry out coordinated patrolling twice a year near the International Maritime Boundary Line to keep this vital part of the Indian Ocean region safe and secure for commercial shipping and international trade.

The Parchim Class Corvette KRI Imam Bonjol and the Indonesian navy's latest indigenously built maritime patrol aircraft CN 235 participated in the exercise.

Rear Admiral Arief Rudianto, the commander-in-chief of Indonesia's Western Fleet Command, and Air Marshal P.K. Roy, the commander-in-chief of India's Andaman Nicobar Command, were the two senior officers who attended the closing ceremony.

During his visit, Ambassador Singh also called on the governor of the Indonesian province of North Sumatra, Gatot Pujonogroho.

The ambassador said that the close geographical proximity between North Sumatra and India has always encouraged trade over the centuries. It now needs to be diversified towards new investment in infrastructure, tourism and healthcare.

The governor, on his part, promised that his administration would extend all assistance in this regard.

illustration indonesian navy parchim class corvette KRI Imam Bonjol & CN235 MPA

 

[Nike]

thanks to agan Silep-04 @kaskus.co.id

C-705 missile aboard KCR-40 TNI AL

AK-630 aboard KCR-40 TNI AL

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

AK-630 aboard KCR-40 TNI AL

Okay now they are equipped with C-705 and AK 630 CIWS. but where is the twin 20mm Denel Vector G12 ?