Indonesia-China hold defense consultation meeting

[kalu_miah]

I really don't want China and Japan become enemies,when we are children,we watch the Japanese anime(at least for our generation,I born in 1989 AD),after we grew up,our popular culture influenced by the Japanese,many popular songs of our Chinese world(China,Taiwan,HongKong) came from Japan,because our race and cultural similarity is there,no one can change.Also it's very important the USA doesn't want an indepent Japan,US troops still have a base near Tokyo,if they want to protect Japan,why they didn't move those troops to the lands threated by China and North Korea?We all know those troops are uesd to control Japan,so Japanese have no choice,they should follow the America.I think the best interest for Japan is not take side,with Chinse,kick the Americans out.And with America,balance the Chinese.They can get real independency.
As for Burma,it's a pity we don't get the heart of their people,if a democratic government in power,I fear they will go for western countries.But again we have many cards to play,the people of Wa sate,the Kokangs and Kachins are pro-China,and don't like Burmese

I understand what you are saying about Japan, Japanese manga/anime are very popular worldwide. Chinese and Japanese also have shared ancestry and culture, being close neighbors, specially Manchuria and Tungus-sic Siberia near the Northeast coastal areas. The fundamental mistake I believe Japan is making is betting on a loosing horse, namely choosing an alliance led by faraway USA, rather than a local Asian alliance. Japan is spear heading a "Diamond Alliance": USA (closest US landmass Alaska, about 3000 miles from Japan), Japan, Australia and India. South Korea, Vietnam and Philippines may be included but they are not the 4 essential pillars of this alliance.

I think you are mistaken that Japan is not a willing partner of the US. You can go through the articles in the list of references below, specially you should look at this one:
The Indian Piece of Abe's Security Diamond

As the Chinese armed forces and defense tech narrows their gap with the US, these US allied countries in the region will go for closer defense and economic cooperation to bolster the continuation of their economic and military supremacy.

What I am suggesting is that China has to find allies of its own and work with them to enhance the economic and military potential of its own alliance.

Till any of the above nations leave their "Diamond" alliance and join the local Asian led alliance, it is only logical that they should be sidelined in all spheres, so that they cannot sabotage the local Asian alliance. In today's globalized world there is no absolute enemy, all are interdependent in a tangled web. But consider this, US has its NATO and non-NATO allies, obviously they have already chosen who they want as friends and allies and who is important for them. Why should the rest of the nations not create their own alliances? Does US and its NATO or non-NATO allies consider the rest of the nations their enemy, probably not, not until any nation threatens one of them. Just like they take care of their own allies, what I am proposing is that other nations should have the right to create their own alliances and take care of their own groups. Does not mean that one group would become enemy of another group, its just that nations team up and try to take care of their own team, to enhance their own economic and strategic security.

As for Burma, if it does not play ball, it should be destabilized, using available levers.

Reference:
Decision Time for India Regarding a Security Alliance
Wanted: An Externally Oriented Japan | Nippon.com
Abbott's challenge in Asia
Australia and India: Indo-Pacific Partners / ISN
Hagel says joint exercise expansion key to Asia Pacific pivot -- Defense Systems
Japan and India: The making of a new alliance? / ISN
India Places Its Asian Bet on Japan: Roiling the Waters of the Asia-Pacific ?????????????????????????? :: JapanFocus
A Russia-China Alliance Brewing? | The Diplomat
Russia seeks informal alliance with Japan - Arlington Foreign Policy | Examiner.com
China sees ‘encircle’ ploy in India ties
China-Russia cooperation vs US-Japan military alliance
Working for India or against Islam? Islamophobia in Indian American Lobbies
Priorities for Japan
Shifting Definitions of

The following threads in PDF cover similar subject:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...threatens-india-japan-strategic-alliance.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tage-china-japan-disputes-chinese-expert.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/255626-india-japan-pantomime-message-china.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...an-bet-japan-roiling-waters-asia-pacific.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...circle-ploy-india-ties-big-boys-big-guns.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/227148-forging-india-japan-n-axis.html

 

[sahaliyan]

I understand what you are saying about Japan, Japanese manga/anime are very popular worldwide. Chinese and Japanese also have shared ancestry and culture, being close neighbors, specially Manchuria and Tungus-sic Siberia near the Northeast coastal areas. The fundamental mistake I believe Japan is making is betting on a loosing horse, namely choosing an alliance led by faraway USA, rather than a local Asian alliance. Japan is spear heading a "Diamond Alliance": USA (closest US landmass Alaska, about 3000 miles from Japan), Japan, Australia and India. South Korea, Vietnam and Philippines may be included but they are not the 4 essential pillars of this alliance.

I think you are mistaken that Japan is not a willing partner of the US. You can go through the articles in the list of references below, specially you should look at this one:
The Indian Piece of Abe's Security Diamond

As the Chinese armed forces and defense tech narrows their gap with the US, these US allied countries in the region will go for closer defense and economic cooperation to bolster the continuation of their economic and military supremacy.

What I am suggesting is that China has to find allies of its own and work with them to enhance the economic and military potential of its own alliance.

Till any of the above nations leave their "Diamond" alliance and join the local Asian led alliance, it is only logical that they should be sidelined in all spheres, so that they cannot sabotage the local Asian alliance. In today's globalized world there is no absolute enemy, all are interdependent in a tangled web. But consider this, US has its NATO and non-NATO allies, obviously they have already chosen who they want as friends and allies and who is important for them. Why should the rest of the nations not create their own alliances? Does US and its NATO or non-NATO allies consider the rest of the nations their enemy, probably not, not until any nation threatens one of them. Just like they take care of their own allies, what I am proposing is that other nations should have the right to create their own alliances and take care of their own groups. Does not mean that one group would become enemy of another group, its just that nations team up and try to take care of their own team, to enhance their own economic and strategic security.

As for Burma, if it does not play ball, it should be destabilized, using available levers.

Reference:
Decision Time for India Regarding a Security Alliance
Wanted: An Externally Oriented Japan | Nippon.com
Abbott's challenge in Asia
Australia and India: Indo-Pacific Partners / ISN
Hagel says joint exercise expansion key to Asia Pacific pivot -- Defense Systems
Japan and India: The making of a new alliance? / ISN
India Places Its Asian Bet on Japan: Roiling the Waters of the Asia-Pacific ?????????????????????????? :: JapanFocus
A Russia-China Alliance Brewing? | The Diplomat
Russia seeks informal alliance with Japan - Arlington Foreign Policy | Examiner.com
China sees ‘encircle’ ploy in India ties
China-Russia cooperation vs US-Japan military alliance
Working for India or against Islam? Islamophobia in Indian American Lobbies
Priorities for Japan
Shifting Definitions of

The following threads in PDF cover similar subject:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...threatens-india-japan-strategic-alliance.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tage-china-japan-disputes-chinese-expert.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/255626-india-japan-pantomime-message-china.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...an-bet-japan-roiling-waters-asia-pacific.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...circle-ploy-india-ties-big-boys-big-guns.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/227148-forging-india-japan-n-axis.html

There are pro-Chinese PMs in Japan such as HASHIMOTO RYUTAIROU,Yukio Hatoyama，Kakuei Tanaka，Yasuo Fukuda。Especially Yukio Hatoyama suggest the East Asia Union,he want to move out the American troops in Okinwa,but he failed.Many may don't believe,but it's true the Americans have great influence in Japanese politic,an anti-American politican can't last long,they will be kicked by Americans use soft power

 

[kalu_miah]

There are pro-Chinese PMs in Japan such as HASHIMOTO RYUTAIROU,Yukio Hatoyama，Kakuei Tanaka，Yasuo Fukuda。Especially Yukio Hatoyama suggest the East Asia Union,he want to move out the American troops in Okinwa,but he failed.Many may don't believe,but it's true the Americans have great influence in Japanese politic,an anti-American politican can't last long,they will be kicked by Americans use soft power

Yes I heard about that before, Shinzo Abe is very different than those politicians, but his getting elected also reflect Japanese current public mood, which is influenced by ongoing current affairs.

About US influence, I know a little more about Korea internal situation than Japan. In Korea, Christians and Chaebols play a big role in getting the pro-USA party in power. Don't know enough about how exactly it works in Japan.

 

[kalu_miah]

Like someone said, Indonesia is one of the founder of NAM. Also South Korea had restart their KF-X project amid canceling of the FX program.

NAM is cold war era anachronism, we hardly hear about it, but I could be wrong.

I will let Indonesians define their country, I am no expert on Indonesia, I would like to learn more about Indonesia from Indonesians.

KF-X postponed:
Indonesia’s KF-X Program Postponed, Ambitiously Aimed For F-35 Equivalent | malaysiaflyingherald

F-X finalized:
RealClearDefense - Has South Korea Lost the East Asian Stealth Race?

 

[sahaliyan]

Yes I heard about that before, Shinzo Abe is very different than those politicians, but his getting elected also reflect Japanese current public mood, which is influence by ongoing current affairs.

About US influence, I know a little more about Korea internal situation than Japan. In Korea, Christians and Chaebols play a big role in getting the pro-USA party in power. Don't know enough about how exactly it works in Japan.

I think most Japanese vote Abe because Abenomic,he is really brave to save Japan from economical failure

 

[asad71]

There are pro-Chinese PMs in Japan such as HASHIMOTO RYUTAIROU,Yukio Hatoyama，Kakuei Tanaka，Yasuo Fukuda。Especially Yukio Hatoyama suggest the East Asia Union,he want to move out the American troops in Okinwa,but he failed.Many may don't believe,but it's true the Americans have great influence in Japanese politic,an anti-American politican can't last long,they will be kicked by Americans use soft power

Let's not forget Japan has remained an occupied nation since WW II.She is a military and economic colony of USA.