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Indonesia Aerospace Forum

What I like about Indonesia is that they actually try to build their commerical aircraft industry and their state-backed company is not afraid of investing in the project. Korea is on the other hand has discussed developing a turboprop commercial aircraft over two decades without any result. I believe one point KAI considered partnering up with Indonesia. Now KAI considers to build a Dash 8/Q400 series under the license with an option of buying the entire production line for Asian market. The problems with Korea, Japan and China have been the fact that they try to build a commercial aircraft with 70~100+ seats straight way. They may learn a thing or two from Indonesian commercial aircraft programs.

Ya, we try to be more realistic Today. Previously Indonesian Aerospace was also quite ambitious and want to challenge Boeing and Airbus with its N 2130 project in 1995. The project was ended after IMF prohibit Indonesia government to finance PTDI ambitious program (N250 and N2130) during Asian Financial Crisis. Current strategy is to focus on light and medium turboprop and avoid any direct competition with Boeing and Airbus. This is why PTDI is developing N219 and N219 amphibious. Recent statement coming from PTDI Director also still affirm that strategy.

The aerospace industry seems to experience slower demand for the next 2-3 years from airline industry due to Covid19 outbreak. Boeing has already fired many of its employee, for example. We should wait for at least another 5 years to know whether N 219 program is a success or not. The lucky thing for N 219 program is that it already has a fix order from Aceh province that will make the company can start its production line right after the certification is taken this year inshaAllah. Cargo industry is also quite able to withstand its growth during this outbreak, so N219 program will likely to get many order from cargo industry like FED-EX and others.
 
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Ya, we try to be more realistic Today. Previously Indonesian Aerospace was also quite ambitious and want to challenge Boeing and Airbus with its N 2130 project in 1995. The project was ended after IMF prohibit Indonesia government to finance PTDI ambitious program (N250 and N2130) during Asian Financial Crisis. Current strategy is to focus on light and medium turboprop and avoid any direct competition with Boeing and Airbus. This is why PTDI is developing N219 and N219 amphibious. Recent statement coming from PTDI Director also still affirm that strategy.

The aerospace industry seems to experience slower demand for the next 2-3 years from airline industry due to Covid19 outbreak. Boeing has already fired many of its employee, for example. We should wait for at least another 5 years to know whether N 219 program is a success or not. The lucky thing for N 219 program is that it already has a fix order from Aceh province that will make the company can start its production line right after the certification is taken this year inshaAllah. Cargo industry is also quite able to withstand its growth during this outbreak, so N219 program will likely to get many order from cargo industry like FED-EX and others.

I think it is impossible to competely avoid any direct competition with Boeing and Airbus. Boeing is very keen on entering the turboprop market (in fact, they would have acquired Embraer if it had not been for Covid-19) and you know CASA is a part of Airbus and they have always options to acuqire remaing production lines of De Havilland (ex-Bombardier) in the same way they took over Airbus A220 (Bombardier C-Series). However, Indonesia could get away with it since like you said Indonesia has the domestic market where there is a demand for small-medium cargo aircrafts between islands.

I think the key takeway here is, I think, how much Indoneisa could differentiate itself from other Turboprop aircrafts around the world.
 
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Second N 219 Prototype has flown 100 times

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I hope they can complete the production certification this year. Ameen ya Allah.

 
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Just noticed that it have double swing door in the back, I think a single door would be enough for passenger but double swing door will give easier access and good for handling cargo.

Definitely it is designed for both passenger and cargo purposes. As cargo business is growing due to e-commerce booming in our country, we hope many order can be taken for N 219 cargo configuration. The business is even growing during this Covid 19 outbreak.
 
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PT Dirgantara Indonesia got 10.6 million USD net profit in 2019. It is based on audited number. For more than 10 years PT Dirgantara Indonesia was lead by a corrupt guy that is now under custody. With the new CEO since the late of 2018, I am very optimistic with this company future. The new CEO is the one that can turn another big and unprofitable state owned company from long lost into a profitable company (PT PELNI)

 
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29 June 2020 00:00 GMT+0

Covid-19: Indonesia's PTDI swings into the black but pandemic could dampen outlook
by Jon Grevatt

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Indonesia’s PT Dirgantara, which produces the CN-235 transport aircraft (pictured), has attributed profits in 2019 to its efforts to improve efficiencies. (Janes/Ridzwan Rahmat)

PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) – the country’s biggest defence-aerospace firm – has attributed an improvement in its financial performance to internal restructuring and streamlining.

The company said in its annual shareholders meeting on 26 June that it recorded net profits of the equivalent of USD10.6 million in fiscal year (FY) 2019 following losses of USD38.5 million one year earlier.

PTDI, which is wholly stated owned, added that the value of its sales in FY 2019 was USD260.9 million, an increase of nearly 15% over the USD227.7 million it recorded in FY 2018. In addition, PTDI said the value of contracts it secured in 2019 was USD130.8 million, a year-on-year increase of 5%.

PTDI said its improved performance was the result of a “company transformation programme” through which it was pursuing “several strategic initiatives” to improve internal effectiveness and optimise operating processes.

The aim of these measures, it said, is to achieve enhanced efficiencies “while still increasing the acquisitions of contracts and sales”.

PTDI is partnered with several foreign equipment manufacturers on producing aircraft for the Indonesian armed forces and export customers.

Its most high-profile partnership is with Airbus with which PTDI produces fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft including the CN-235 medium transport aircraft, the NC-212 light transport aircraft, and NAS-332 Super Puma helicopters.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...nesias-ptdi-swings-into-the-black-but-pandemi
 
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Observatorium Timau Bisa Amati Langit Utara dan Selatan

Lukas Hendra TM - Bisnis.com24 Juni 2020 | 16:09 WIB
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Observatorium Timau
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Bisnis.com, JAKARTA—Tak dapat dipungkiri, kawasan timur Indonesia memiliki udara yang jauh lebih bersih seiring dengan belum adanya kepadatan penduduk maupun industrial yang besar.

Tak heran, Lembaga Penerbangan dan Antariksa Nasional (LAPAN) memilih kawasan timur Indonesia sebagai lokasi observasi bintang keenam mereka di Timau, Kupang, Nusa Tenggara Timur.

Saat ini, LAPAN memiliki 5 observatorium. Yang paling terkenal tentu saja observatorium Bosscha di Bandung, Jawa Barat. Penggemar film Petualangan Sherina tentu akan nostalgia bila menengok observatorium ini.

Empat lainnya adalah Observatorium Taman Ismail Marzuki di Jakarta, Observatorium Loka Jala Crana di Surabaya, Jawa Timur, Observatorium Jagad Raya Tenggarong di Kutai Kartanegara, Kalimantan Timur serta Observatorium Taman Pintar Yogyakarta.

Namun, Observatorium Timau layak menjadi sorotan. Pasalnya, observatorium yang masih dalam tahap pembangunan ini, bakal menjadi observatorium terbesar di Asia Tenggara.

LAPAN mengungkapkan observatorium ini akan menjadi rumah bagi teleskop yang memiliki diameter 3,8 meter. Observatorium ini akan mampu mengamati tata surya tidak hanya di belahan langit utara, melainkan juga di belahan langit selatan.

“Wilayah Kupang juga dinilai sebagai wilayah yang memiliki langit yang lebih sering bebas dari awan,” ungkap LAPAN dalam akun twitternya, Rabu (24/6/2020).

Observatorium Nasional Timau berada di Kawasan Lindung lereng Gunung Timau di ketinggian 1.300 meter di atas permukaan air laut. Sementara, kantor LAPAN berada di Tilong, Kupang.

LAPAN mengungkapkan bahwa di daerah Lelogama ruas jalan sepanjang 3,2 kilometer berbatu dan perlu perbaikan. Di sekitaran Fatumonas, juga terdapat ruas jalan sepanjang 1,5 kilometer yang berbatu dan perlu perbaikan. Bahkan, sepanjang 6,7 kilometer sebelum lokasi observatorium, kondisi jalan masih tanah dan lumpur yang sulit dilalui.

Dalam twit itu, LAPAN juga menunjukkan bahwa progress pembangunan observatorium tersebut masih berjalan. Struktur bangunan melingkar khas observatorium berbahan beton sudah terlihat. Meskipun, kubah bundar belum terlihat.

Menengok foto-foto yang beredar di Google Maps, Gunung Limau biasanya digunakan untuk berkemah. Tampak Kawasan tersebut masih hijau asri dan keindahan alam pegunungan.

Bila pembangunan sudah tuntas dan trek menuju lokasi mulus dan lebar, bukan tak mungkin Observatorium Nasional Limau akan menjadi destinasi anyar wisata di NTT dan bagi masyarakat di kawasan timur Indonesia.

Apalagi, jika dibarengi dengan program pengembangan astronom amatir yakni dengan program giliran bagi masyarakat awam untuk dapat turut serta mengamati menggunakan observatorium ini. Siapa tahu menjadi penemu bintang, planet, asteroid atau komet di jagad raya alam semesta.

Indonesia Timau obeservatory in construction will have a 3.8 meter lens. Situated in the Eastern part of the country to mitigate light pollution. will likely replace Bosscha observatory.
 
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N 219 Competitor from Textron (US) has undergone maiden flight in May 2020. It has already got secured order from FED-EX for 100 planes.

 
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What I like about Indonesia is that they actually try to build their commercial aircraft industry and their state-backed company is not afraid of investing in the project. Korea is on the other hand has discussed developing a turboprop commercial aircraft over two decades without any result. I believe one point KAI considered partnering up with Indonesia. Now KAI considers to build a Dash 8/Q400 series under the license with an option of buying the entire production line for Asian market. The problems with Korea, Japan and China have been the fact that they try to build a commercial aircraft with 70~100+ seats straight way. They may learn a thing or two from Indonesian commercial aircraft programs.

That's too much of a stretch, by far.

First off, If they aren't doing it that way, there is obviously a reason for it. The regional jet market is a highly saturated, dominated by very few manufacturers. See Embraer selling their stakes to Boeing and Bombardier withdrawing from the market they have dominated for a long time with CRJ series and a turboprop that is now DHC Dash 8. They've stated that the development cost is too high for them to continue the C series program and the return is constantly diminishing.

You might say that the situation is different in the market for even smaller sub-10,000 Kg MTOW class of aircraft but that's wrong. Casa and Cessna were always in this market and the C212 is doing just fine. Now Cessna as shown in the other post is entering their new aircraft as well and I don't see anyone in the commercial market outside of its country of origin favoring a new commercial aircraft from any of those Asian countries against proven CASA material.

On the other hand, China is brute forcing anyways with all their state-backing and huge domestic market. Their two short-haul jets are no where near its Airbus or Boeing competitors, but from development stand-points its doing just fine. They will be able to break through someday, and it would have been waste of time if they were to develop a plane of the size of N219 or C-212 only to wait for it and then proceed with C919 or ARJ21. They have a long history of building planes anyways, so it was rather wise to go straight into regional and short-haul jets market. It's rather just a choice for them to either develop the 7000 Kg MTOW class turboprop aircraft or not.


Japan has already developed YS-11 a while ago and has built it for quite some time. Apart from that, they have other experiences of developing a subsonic multi-jet aircraft like P-1, so once more its rather just a choice if they go for a bigger commercial aircraft or the smaller one.

Considering the fact that, when Mitsubishi started the MRJ project the tourism and aviation industry were growing rapidly and the factor that led all these growth were LCC flying regional routes, it was just plain obvious (no pun intended) they would be missing out when they were to do what you are suggesting.

Of course the MRJ has been delayed so much that they even changed its name but its rather just hindsight. Also, even if they went with the sub-10,000 Kg class short-range turboprop aircraft, as I've mentioned above, the competitors are just too strong.

Most importantly, you find way more domestic demands within Japan for an aircraft sized that of MRJ than C212. Thus its a private company doing private project. Yes, there were some government support but in the end Mitsubishi pursuing a bigger market is a no brainer.


Last but not least, Korea and KAI's plan of developing regional turboprop aircraft has been stranded for an obvious reason. On top of all the problems I've mentioned above, the most important problem is that there ain't no domestic market within Korea to justify the development of an aircraft of this kind.

Indonesia is spread across so many archipelagos and several huge islands. Even if they have a hard time selling their N219 internationally, which they probably would given the strong competition from way more established aircraft manufacturers abroad, they still have their domestic market.

Korea is the direct opposite. Half the Koreans live within the 50 Km radius from Seoul, the rest live in cities with either decent or to be accurate, overkill airports on which even mid-haul aircraft could take off and land or train stations where KTX runs through. With KTX you could get from one end to another within 3 hours and that time is only getting shorter with the new generation of KTX about to get introduced very soon.

There is just no place for turboprops in Korea. Even the few Dash 8s that were operated in Korea were replaced in favor of C series and 737. It would be plain dumb for KAI to develop an aircraft like N219.


On top of all these its not like making a commercial aircraft is vital for national security. Now that industry giants like Boeing and Airbus starting to poke into regional jet market, thus new players like COMAC joining the game, its also unlikely that even more new and smaller players like KAI could make a profit long-term. No, its gonna be a miracle if they somehow manage to break even. Its gonna end up like a pile of mess that is MRJ and withdraw from the market like Bombardier. There will be no one to take the responsibilities of tax-payer money being dumped into the pit.

I'm very glad that Korea was able to avoid that path.
 
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N 219 Competitor from Textron (US) has undergone maiden flight in May 2020. It has already got secured order from FED-EX for 100 planes.


I think our domestic delivery company has booming during e-commerce this decade, and island to island or even mountain delivery will be need N219, hope JNE, Tiki, J&T, Lion parcel, anter aja, etc will order N219 for their remote area delivery.
 
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I think our domestic delivery company has booming during e-commerce this decade, and island to island or even mountain delivery will be need N219, hope JNE, Tiki, J&T, Lion parcel, anter aja, etc will order N219 for their remote area delivery.

Lion Air has made MOU before to buy 100 N 219. I believe it must be for their cargo fleet. While Garuda has plan to buy 100 Chinese drone for their cargo fleets. The plan seems to not continued after Covid 19 outbreak, but it, some how, show that there is huge need for cargo business to buy more cargo planes. That Chinese drone is still in development and the price is not too far from N219 with I believe has much bigger cargo capacity than Chinese drone by looking to its airframe.

I believe with Jokowi determination to push Indonesian ministries to buy local product, so I hope the plan will be scrapped and replaced by buying 100 N 219 instead. That N 219 competitor from US for instant has already got confirmed order from FED-EX for 100 planes.
 
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