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Indo-Russian 5th Generation PAK-FA/FGFA is dead

Are you saying negotiations fo this deal is since 2years?
Then you are wrong!! It was on since 2007!
The previous govt didn't sign the deal since the Russian didn't agree for r&d deal and also IAF didn't like the progress of the development...so what changed now? For you to blame bjp?
Don't DTTI bullsh!t me!!
If you are apptard just say it...then I rest my case!!

See my response below thread.

Per the actions taken by this government, it is very obvious that BJP coming to power is the reason for nose diving of the relations with Russia. One can surely argue if there was a sinister/conspiracy angle in this or not.

Indo-Russian 5th Generation PAK-FA/FGFA is dead | Page 5
 
See my response below thread.

Per the actions taken by this government, it is very obvious that BJP coming to power is the reason for nose diving of the relations with Russia. One can surely argue if there was a sinister/conspiracy angle in this or not.

You need to see a shrink
 
What is so amusing? When chips are down you have to cut your losses and move on.

It's are always better to cut off a cancered limb to salvage rest of the body.

No power on earth can take Kashmir or Arunachal from India. Your post is both hysterical and insane at the same time.
 
So you turned a blind eye on helicopters deal and frigates deal!!
Why?
These deals were dragged for decades by previous governments...!!
Can I know why are you fixated on bjp?
Considering there are 3 1/2 still left in their office!!!

Details on the Chopper deal are sketchy at best. I am not positive if it will materialize and the plug may be pulled out in another 6 months as things become more clearer with the progress on DTTI front.

What is very clear is that Russia no longer trusts India and would not share its crown jewels tech with S-400 or Nuclear subs or PAK-FA. India already has received tech to make frigates. Russia does not loose any thing in the Frigate deals.

Why are so bent on defending BJP at the expense of India?

No power on earth can take Kashmir or Arunachal from India. Your post is both hysterical and insane at the same time.

What is the use of slogans when they are not backed by proper planning and actions?
 
See my response below thread.

Per the actions taken by this government, it is very obvious that BJP coming to power is the reason for nose diving of the relations with Russia. One can surely argue if there was a sinister/conspiracy angle in this or not.

Indo-Russian 5th Generation PAK-FA/FGFA is dead | Page 5
Nose diving!!...as in did India vote against russia's Crimea annexation?
Did India vote against russia's role in syria?
Did India join NATO?
Did Russia stop supporting India for security council membership?
Did Russia stop sending nuclear material to india?
Did Russia stop all existing joint venture in india?
Did Russia stop doing army exercises with India ?
Did India stop importing weapons from Russia?
Did Russia terminate joint anti terrorism accord?
So what are you referring to as nose diving?:coffee:

Details on the Chopper deal are sketchy at best. I am not positive if it will materialize and the plug may be pulled out in another 6 months as things become more clearer with the progress on DTTI front.

What is very clear is that Russia no longer trusts India and would not share its crown jewels tech with S-400 or Nuclear subs or PAK-FA. India already has received tech to make frigates. Russia does not loose any thing in the Frigate deals.

Why are so bent on defending BJP at the expense of India?



What is the use of slogans when they are not backed by proper planning and actions?
See nobody cares what dafuq you or I think!!
Just wait for the official press release of the deals signed!!!
Mere speculation is what makes us look like fools!!
 
You will never make a meaningful or useful contribution to this forum. All good members start out bright eyed and full of enthusiasm and one-by-one become either semi-trolls like @Armstrong - who also left the forum:cray: - and @Chinese-Dragon (I still love both of you:azn:) or leave the forum like @SvenSvensonov and @Joe Shearer - other quality members like @Oscar or @Nihonjin1051 tone down their contributions. @AUSTERLITZ has too, though he still contributes from time to time. I haven't noticed anything new from Jhungary either.

Oh, and these people can be found here:

Notable Members

They were some of, if not the, best members here.

You simply can't argue with people here, the ignorance is too think. No contribution you make will matter when someone doesn't want to believe or see it. And there's a lot of those people on this forum.

Sorry for being so cynical, but I've lived through this too:

Technogaianist

Transhumanist

Now I don't even bother contributing my knowledge or depth on defense matters, which I'm rather good with being both ex-military and a current defense employee, I simply got burned out by the stupidity that fosters here.

So I play around with @Nihonjin1051 instead.
...

Sorry for being a downer:partay:. Escape while you can:

panda-escape-o.gif


Soon, like this panda cub, you'll never be free.

India will go ahead with Pak-Fa I think as FGFA is not working.

Could be possible.


So what was your Old iD Pal
 
Details on the Chopper deal are sketchy at best. I am not positive if it will materialize and the plug may be pulled out in another 6 months as things become more clearer with the progress on DTTI front.

What is very clear is that Russia no longer trusts India and would not share its crown jewels tech with S-400 or Nuclear subs or PAK-FA. India already has received tech to make frigates. Russia does not loose any thing in the Frigate deals.

Why are so bent on defending BJP at the expense of India?



What is the use of slogans when they are not backed by proper planning and actions?
No, I am not using a slogan, I am telling you a fact. If your posts are any example of your thought process then I must say, you lack basic intelligence to understand and differentiate a fact from slogan. OTOH, it is you who is posting baseless and senseless comments. Your continuous emphasize on BJP tells me that your main objective is to put BJP in bad light and nothing else. If you want to have a discussion on Indian political scenario and BJP in particular then create a relevant thread. Why post comments which are devoid of any common sense and logic. Your initial post in which u said that Russia has refused S-400 has been refuted by so many commentators here and yet you are continuously posting irrelevant comment after comment.
 
I guess Modi has taken a prudent step in examining defence related deals with Russia. You cannot keep on pouring money with no outcome. Russia has to deliver what it has promised, which it always fails.
I also think this will be a prudent step by Mr. Modi if FGFA project has no outcome in near future. No need to waste our time. We have other options too. Modi believes in action rather than waiting , waiting and waiting..
 
Nose diving!!...as in did India vote against russia's Crimea annexation?
Did India vote against russia's role in syria?
Did India join NATO?
Did Russia stop supporting India for security council membership?
Did Russia stop sending nuclear material to india?
Did Russia stop all existing joint venture in india?
Did Russia stop doing army exercises with India ?
Did India stop importing weapons from Russia?
Did Russia terminate joint anti terrorism accord?
So what are you referring to as nose diving?:coffee:


Did India vote against russia's Crimea annexation?

If it did Russia many question, India's own annexations.

Did India vote against russia's role in syria?

India is not a Veto power while Russia is.

Did India join NATO?

India is in Asia. But India did join the US/Japan forum that are relevant in Asia

Did Russia stop supporting India for security council membership?

Let's see when the time arrives for voting. Statements at this time are irrelevant.

Did Russia stop sending nuclear material to india?

Existing contracts

Did Russia stop all existing joint venture in india?

Existing contracts

Did Russia stop doing army exercises with India ?

India does exercises with China too

Did India stop importing weapons from Russia?

Name any major deals done by the incumbent government with Russia.

Did Russia terminate joint anti terrorism accord?

Russia will use any Intel it may receive. Do you know what India received?

So what are you referring to as nose diving?:coffee:

Refer responses above. No major deals with Russia when the deals are all ready for signing. S-400, Nuclear Sub, PAK-FA
 
Thursday, 24 December 2015
S-400 missiles, Kamov-226 helicopters, Gen-5 fighters on Modi’s agenda in Russia


The Russian S-400 air defence missile that could feature in Modi's agreements with Putin in Russia today
By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 24th Nov 15

Why is Prime Minister Narendra Modi visiting Russia on what much of the world considers Christmas Eve? Because it will not be Christmas in Russia until January 7, according to the Gregorian calendar, when Orthodox Christians --- Russia’s majority --- celebrate Christmas.
Nor will Modi be mistaken for Santa Claus with a stocking filled with defence orders. India is no longer handing Moscow the meaty contracts that, from 1970-2000, met 70 per cent of India’s military equipment requirements.
Even so, there could be significant announcements about India’s purchase of Kamov-226T helicopters, S-400 air defence missile systems, and the long-delayed contract for joint development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA).
“Russia does things with us; [and] we do things with Russia, which we don’t do with any other country, said Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar, briefing the media on Modi’s visit on Tuesday. While Jaishanker declined to predict what announcements could be made, here are some of the balls in play.
FGFA and Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA)
Once the flagship of Indo-Russian defence cooperation, the FGFA project illustrates the downswing in defence relations. For two-and-a-half-years, the two sides have bickered over a research & development contract (R&D Contract), under which India would commit about $4 billion (Rs 26,464 crore) for Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to work with Sukhoi to evolve the Russian T-50 stealth fighter (already flying) into an FGFA that incorporated India’s requirements.
Business Standard learns that, last month, discussions were concluded on the R&D contract. While this clears the way for a positive announcement in Moscow, the Indian Air Force (IAF) continues to block the FGFA. Its criticism is intended to reinforce the impression of an aircraft shortfall, thus increasing pressure on New Delhi to buy more Rafale fighters, beyond the 36 already contracted with Dassault.
New Delhi will now decide whether to restrict the FGFA project to buying 60-70 T-50 fighters off-the-shelf from Russia, or to go ahead, as earlier planned, with joint development and the manufacture of larger numbers of a customised fighter.

The FGFA project kicked off in October 2007 with an Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) between New Delhi and Moscow. In December 2008, a General Contract stipulated work share and cost, and conditions under which the FGFA could be sold to other countries.

In December 2010, under a Preliminary Design Contract, each side paid $295 million (Rs 1,952 crore) to finalise the FGFA’s configuration and systems. Since June 2013, when this was concluded, negotiations have dragged on over the R&D contract.

Standing in the way is the IAF, which announced in October 2012 that it would buy only 144 FGFAs, instead of the 214 originally planned.
On December 24, 2013, as reported by Business Standard (January 21, 2014, Russia can’t deliver on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft: IAF) the IAF told the defence ministry the FGFA’s performance was below par. On January 15, 2014, at a MoD review meeting, the IAF said the FGFA’s engine was unreliable, its radar inadequate, its stealth features badly engineered, India’s work share too low, and the fighter’s price too high.
While the FGFA’s future hangs in the balance, that of another Indo-Russian joint development project --- the Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA) --- is almost certainly dead. For three years negotiations have remained deadlocked and there is little likelihood of change soon.
Speaking to Russian new agency, TASS, on October 29, prior to a visit to Russia, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar stated: “(W)ith the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft, there are serious issues needing clarification, let me be frank. There are some serious observations which need to be clarified and reviewed properly.”
Kamov-226T helicopters
The proposal to build 197 Kamov-226T light utility helicopters in India has moved quickly after Modi committed to Putin, during their last annual summit in January, that India would give Russia the contract.
Parrikar told TASS in October: “[Regarding] the project for joint production of Kamov Ka-226 helicopters. I hope to use my visit to have it inked on paper when the prime minister arrives. Also the purchase of S-400 missile systems. We anticipate these projects to be coordinated by next month.”
What remains to be decided is whether Russian Helicopters’ Indian partner will be Reliance Defence, or HAL. Both firms have lobbied hard, but the decision will be a political one.
The Kamov-226T is a 3.5 tonne, two-pilot, light helicopter that is specially modified with a new engine for India’s high-altitude operations along the Himalayan borders.
S-400 air defence missiles
As promised by Parrikar above, the vaunted S-400 missile system --- a long-range, mobile, surface-to-air missile system (M-SAM) that can shoot down incoming aircraft and several types of ballistic missiles --- could see a high profile announcement on Thursday.
On December 17, the defence ministry cleared the purchase of five S-400 units, which could be used to protect high-value targets from nuclear-tipped missiles --- like New Delhi or our strike formations attacking across the border. While the contract value would be negotiated, Reuters has placed it at $4.5 billion.
The S-400 Triumf (NATO designation: SA-21 Growler) can shoot down aircraft and missiles at ranges of 40-400 kilometres.
Submarine and frigates
India and Russia have negotiated since 2012 for leasing a second nuclear attack submarine (SSN), to supplement INS Chakra, the Akula II class SSN that the navy has leased for ten years for some $900 million (Rs 5,954 crore).
Navy sources say this negotiation is entangled in a larger package of naval systems, including the sale of three Krivak-III frigates of the Grigorivich-class (Project 1135.6) to India. The navy, which already operates six such frigates, is keen for three more, which are lying part-built by Yantar Shipyard in Russia.
Russia wants the frigates to be completed in Yantar Shipyard, but the defence ministry wants to build them under “Make in India”. The navy, aware that India’s frigate-building shipyards are already full to capacity, is keen on building in Russia.

Complicating this further is Russia’s wish to be awarded, without competitive bidding, India’s Project 75I contract to build six conventional submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP). The defence ministry wants competitive tendering, and is also apprehensive that Russia has not yet mastered AIP technology.
 
India must spend at leat 50 billion USD per annum buying Russian weapons for the next 20 years。

A similar amount should be allocated to the purchase of weapons from other countries such as France、the US and Israel etc,annually for the next 20 years。
 
Did India vote against russia's Crimea annexation?

If it did Russia many question, India's own annexations.

Did India vote against russia's role in syria?

India is not a Veto power while Russia is.

Did India join NATO?

India is in Asia. But India did join the US/Japan forum that are relevant in Asia

Did Russia stop supporting India for security council membership?

Let's see when the time arrives for voting. Statements at this time are irrelevant.

Did Russia stop sending nuclear material to india?

Existing contracts

Did Russia stop all existing joint venture in india?

Existing contracts

Did Russia stop doing army exercises with India ?

India does exercises with China too

Did India stop importing weapons from Russia?

Name any major deals done by the incumbent government with Russia.

Did Russia terminate joint anti terrorism accord?

Russia will use any Intel it may receive. Do you know what India received?

So what are you referring to as nose diving?:coffee:

Refer responses above. No major deals with Russia when the deals are all ready for signing. S-400, Nuclear Sub, PAK-FA

Account Hacked ?
 
No, I am not using a slogan, I am telling you a fact. If your posts are any example of your thought process then I must say, you lack basic intelligence to understand and differentiate a fact from slogan. OTOH, it is you who is posting baseless and senseless comments. Your continuous emphasize on BJP tells me that your main objective is to put BJP in bad light and nothing else. If you want to have a discussion on Indian political scenario and BJP in particular then create a relevant thread. Why post comments which are devoid of any common sense and logic. Your initial post in which u said that Russia has refused S-400 has been refuted by so many commentators here and yet you are continuously posting irrelevant comment after comment.

It's very funny that people are accusing me of baseless claims while totally ignoring the concrete actions taken by the incumbent government which are inefficient at best and sinister at worst.

Also it is amusing people are questioning why I am questioning BJP. If the action is taken by a BJP government, how can I attribute the blame on Congress, AAP or CPIM?
 

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