Indo-Pak talks - the aftermath

[Choppers]

Indo-Pak talks focused on Kashmir: Pak foreign secy​

TNN, Feb 25, 2010, 06.59pm IST

NEW DELHI: Pakistan foreign secretary Salman Bashir has said that the Indo-Pak talks focused extensively not briefly on Kashmir. Hours after Indian foreign secretary Nirupama Rao and Bashir held parleys, the latter said in a press conference that Pakistan wanted good ties with India and that India’s concerns on terror were valid.

“Kashmir was discussed extensively not briefly... One cannot be really dismissive about the issue of Kashmir; any effort to be dismissive on the issue will not be helpful,” said Bashir minutes after Nirupama Rao held a press conference.

"It is unfair, unrealistic and counter-productive to make issue of terrorism in a generic way and stall the process of overall relations between both the countries." Bashir said. “We are concerned about human right violations in J&K.”

“Pakistan does not believe in cosmetic engagement, Pakistan does not believe that India should lecture us and demand that Pakistan should do this or that,” he said.

Bashir said Pak wanted composite dialogue revived. “India has had one 26/11, we have had a 1000 Mumbais.”

Reacting to India’s demand to arrest Hafiz Saeed, Basjir said: “The docket given by India on Hafiz Saeed is a piece of literature not a dossier”.

“Pakistan looks forward to reversing the tide of regression that has taken place in its relationship with India,” said Bashir. Bashir said Pak is willing to address and resolve Siachen and Sir Creek issues which we believe are do-able. “Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has a vision for peaceful and prosperous South Asia...
There is a huge gap between expectations and mistrust that exists between both the countries today. I have come here to bridge those differences,” he said.

“We will continue to ensure that our territory is not used by anyone against us or any other country,”
Bashir said. “To create an optics of dialogue without substance means we are not taking relationship seriously or dealing with issues seriously.”

Indo-Pak talks focused on Kashmir: Pak foreign secy - India - The Times of India

 

[HAIDER]

NEW DELHI: Pakistan Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir said Thursday that India's focus on the 2008 Mumbai attacks was “unfair” and was stalling efforts to get bilateral relations back on track.

“It is unfair and unrealistic and, in our view, counterproductive to...keep the focus on that (Mumbai) to stall the process of the broader relationship between the two countries,” Bashir said after talks in New Delhi with his Indian counterpart Nirupama Rao.

Urging India to move forward and resume full-fledged peace talks, Bashir warned that neither country could afford to remain disengaged.

“This is a nuclearised region. It is important that India and Pakistan engage on a whole range of issues,” he said.
He added, in an apparent reference to India's focus on Pakistan-based militancy during the talks, that “Pakistan does not believe that India should lecture us and demand Pakistan does this or that.”
He added: “That is not how interstate relations are conducted.”
Earlier, Rao had said the time was not yet ripe to revive the comprehensive dialogue, citing a continuing “trust deficit” following the Mumbai carnage.
“We are not desperate,” Bashir stressed. “If India takes more time to reflect on the modalities of engagement, they will find us ready,” he said.

Bashir also insisted that dealing with terrorism was his government's “number one priority” and argued that Pakistan was only too aware of the trauma and violence inflicted by terror attacks.
“We have suffered many, many hundreds of Mumbais. We have lost a great number of civilians,” he said.
“For anyone to think that Pakistan would be dismissive of this problem, he does not have his facts right,” he said.
During the talks with Rao, Bashir said he had stressed “the great importance” Pakistan attached to finding a peaceful solution to the issue of Muslim-majority Kashmir.

“From our side, we certainly don't discount the achievements made by the Composite Dialogue... but the time is not right as yet to resume it because we have to create a climate of trust and confidence,” Rao had said.
“We have agreed to remain in touch,” she added.
“I spelt out forthrightly our concerns on terrorism emanating from Pakistan against India. I told my Pakistani counterpart that terrorism cannot advance any cause but the cause of senseless violence,” she said.
During the talks, the Indian side handed the Pakistanis three dossiers on anti-India militants, including one that contained intelligence related to the Mumbai attacks.
DAWN.COM | World | India focus on Mumbai 'unfair': Salman Bashir

Waste of time

 

[third eye]

These talks were meant to fail. There are two ways to look at them

1. The talks went along expected lines & were doomed even before they started.

2. Well, at least a beginning was made for whatever it is worth.

As for India's stand being ' unfair', ... Unfair to whom ?

Yes, the region is suffering from terrorism. However, for Pak it is a self inflicted injury and India gets the ' infection' form a diseased neighbor who is passing its infection around. A neighbor suffering from an ailment that it has allowed itself to be afflicted by while shortsightedly allowing religious fundamentalists to gain ground during the regime of a dictator who met his end when the mangoes exploded in his aircraft enroute from Bahawalpur to a point that the tail now wags the dog.

GOP has shown to its ppl that it stands aggressively by its stand & is not to be held responsible for what its citizens do.

GOI on the other hand has run the risk of exposing itself to the opposition but has indicated to the world that ..' well we tried'.

It will be interesting to observe the days & events ahead, all options remain open.

 

[Atheist]

Bashir is a terrible Diplomat as far as I can see it.... He looked very desperate in front of the media....

 

[HAIDER]

Well diplomat goes with preset agenda of talks, but if counter part talks same old lines, then its very agitating. That's what Indian did. It seems Indians were not ready for talk, plus their agenda is always linger the issues. talk and talk will not take issues anywhere until govts has something to show their people about changing ground realities. Otherwise in this age of freedom of speech and expression, it very hard for govt to control the feelings of national. And these type of delaying tactics gives non state actorsto act independently.

 

[ramu]

Bashir is a terrible Diplomat as far as I can see it.... He looked very desperate in front of the media....

I second that ...
Bashir had an agenda ready not for the talks but the way he would address the media. India and Pakistan started the process of talks but I think the end is in sight after the disastrous media conference. He was blunt to the media and was not even courteous to the journalists.

I am extremely angered by the loss of such a golder chance towards peace. Irrespective of what he thinks about Mumbai, if he is diplomat of a high ranking, he should have played to the audience. A tough stand of nothing more can be done on Mumbai and Pakistan has done everything it can creates a negative public opinion about Pakistan.

I have no issue if the diplomat plays hard ball with his counterparts from India but media management is a basic skill that I would expect from Bashir.

 

[ramu]

Well diplomat goes with preset agenda of talks, but if counter part talks same old lines, then its very agitating. That's what Indian did. It seems Indians were not ready for talk, plus their agenda is always linger the issues. talk and talk will not take issues anywhere until govts has something to show their people about changing ground realities. Otherwise in this age of freedom of speech and expression, it very hard for govt to control the feelings of national. And these type of delaying tactics gives non state actorsto act independently.

The reason he is representing Pakistan is because he is capable of conducting himself with dignity and élan even under pressure forget getting agitated. His media briefing made a mockery of the talks and the future for further talks appears bleak.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

He also said somethings that his indian counter part denied or shyed away from:
1)We discussed kasmir in detail.
2)India using Afghanistan against Pakistan.
3)Water issue.
And others.........
Mr Bashir sounded kinda angry

 

[haawk]

india is indeed good at diplomacy....i heard the 3 more dossiers were given to pakistan -one of them that have evidence linking a military personel to mumbai....the congress cant do anything else , they cannot just let mumbai since they nearly lost their image when mumbai happened and letting mumbai go would only bring them a loss at nxt elections

 

[ramu]

He also said somethings that his indian counter part denied or shyed away from:
1)We discussed kasmir in detail.
2)India using Afghanistan against Pakistan.
3)Water issue.
And others.........
Mr Bashir sounded kinda angry

1. No one denied from Indian side. Look at Indian source as well. I can give links if you want me to.

2. Any proof given by Bashir ? No. But why is he bringing this in front of the media. Is he here to improve relations or use media as a public justice tribunal ? Does he care about India's public opinion ? If no, he has to go to a Chinese school and learn diplomacy.

3.Yes, valid point and correct to bring it up. This is a concern and the stand on each side can be made flexible by consensus on both sides.

Why the hell did he sound angry? Irrespective of what went on behind closed doors, he has almost shut the door of peace by the way he handled the media. Indian public opinion goes a long way in Indian diplomacy and mistakes commited in handling media will prove costly for both the countries. End result, peace will have to wait because Bashir was angry!

 

[kak1978]

How can you not talk about mumbai 26/11, when GOI and GOP have met for the first time after the attack which GOP agreed that perpetrators are from its soil. He can argue that we have to move beyond Mumbai, but the public opinion on this issue is strong in India. Its naive to think India will talk about Kashmir or any other issue when a bomb blast happens in Pune and a terrorist outfit in Pakistan claims responsibility.

 

[HAIDER]

Pakistan already talk about Mumbai thorough US and British officials. So, its pointless to discuss same incident again and again. Repetition of same incident again and again never help India to escape from reality.
I hope India won't see the point where Pak totally lose interest in peace talks and give cold shoulder.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

1. No one denied from Indian side. Look at Indian source as well. I can give links if you want me to.

2. Any proof given by Bashir ? No. But why is he bringing this in front of the media. Is he here to improve relations or use media as a public justice tribunal ? Does he care about India's public opinion ? If no, he has to go to a Chinese school and learn diplomacy.

Dont be emotional coz u sound totally frustrated
2)He is not there to think about indian publics opinion.
3)Why should he?
4)Indian women shyed away about kashmir issue and said it wasnt discussed in detail.
5)He doesnt have to go to a chinese school to learn diplomacy coz it was the diplomacy that his own country used to presurize and force india to take a U turn and come on discussion table.

Why the hell did he sound angry? Irrespective of what went on behind closed doors, he has almost shut the door of peace by the way he handled the media. Indian public opinion goes a long way in Indian diplomacy and mistakes commited in handling media will prove costly for both the countries. End result, peace will have to wait because Bashir was angry!

Try understanding a mans body language?
Ever wonder why press conference wasnt called together?Same goes for the public opinion of pakistani public.

 

[Atheist]

Diplomats are staunch only inside the close doors - in front of the media they should be modest... Bashir knew the tals would be a failure -he should have restrained himself from serious India bashing(doesnt mean what he speaks is right) in front of the media - It will only create a negative impression and as notorious these media fellows are you expect a longer delay in peace process

 

[ramu]

Thanks for the advice PN, I dont want to reply in kind, so let us focus on the topic
BTW, Bashir sounded frustrated too.

2. So is he in India to sound blunt and think by posturing that way, he will succeed ? On the contrary it is viewed negatively. Contrast his media address with Musharaf. He is considered a true diplomat in India in spite of his background

3. Can you explain ?
4. How do you know Bashir is saying the truth or covering his a$$. The meeting went on for 3 hrs and the focus was apparently on terror. How can a detailed discussion on Kashmir happen? How much time do you think is required for a detailed discussion on Kashmir ?

5. Not for long mate. The talk in media circles after Bashir's press conference is to abandon talks give the negative public opinion. U turn again and we all wait for some more time for dear peace.