Indira Gandhi planned a mass invasion of Pakistan | CIA Records

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Like i said you did what you could but you got disappointed in the End and to sate it's only the start,hell yeah it's time for us to play some chess because you had your turn and now it's our's...Yeah let the USA get out of Afghanistan and we will have other neighbor's to worry about as history may repeat itself like 90's...

I agree with former DG-ISI Lt. Gen. (retd.) Gul's assesment that Abdullah Abdullah will be our best bet vis-a-vis Afghan elections.

If we can bridge the gap between him and the Afghan mujahideen forces (not an easy task) and continue to be instrumental in the reconciliation process - I wouldnt be as worried about Afghanistan.

Karzai the puppet of Kabul has been installed there in his creaky kursi since 2001; since that time he's been less than cooperative and worked with india against Pakistan....once he's erased from the picture, things couldnt get worse than they are

worst case scenario - tear up our signature on Geneva Conventions, landmine the border and then re-focus our resources on the eastern flank overlooking occupied Kashmir (which in either case, I would support)

 

[karan.1970]

Like i said you did what you could but you got disappointed in the End and to say it's only the start,hell yeah it's time for us to play some chess because you had your turn and now it's our's...Yeah let the USA get out of Afghanistan and we will have other neighbor's to worry about as history may repeat itself like 90's...

And you know what came after 90's .. dont you ??

 

[ares]

india wasnt a country until 1947

As per your logic, Pakistan wasn't a country until 1971.

Names of the country change,Maps of the country change but country is defined by its citizens.

 

[karan.1970]

Balochistan and Sindh are part of the MAINLAND...and it's hard to invade or send terrorists when a few battlefield tactical nukes have joined our arsenal. And yes - we'd happily use them if a threat of existential proportions took place

so long story short - the games may continue as long as they have to. Pakistan isn't Bhutan or Nepal.

Invasions are a thing of past.. Springs are more in fashion these days.. If you know what I mean

i completely forgot about that SMS job

talk about reactionaries!!!

Yup.. One movie in California.. a Dozen dead in Pakistan. Reactionaries indeed

Balochistan and Sindh are part of the MAINLAND...and it's hard to invade or send terrorists when a few battlefield tactical nukes have joined our arsenal. And yes - we'd happily use them if a threat of existential proportions took place

so long story short - the games may continue as long as they have to. Pakistan isn't Bhutan or Nepal.

Invasions are a thing of past.. Springs are more in fashion these days.. If you know what I mean

i completely forgot about that SMS job

talk about reactionaries!!!

Yup.. One movie in California.. a Dozen dead in Pakistan. Reactionaries indeed

 

[chauvunist]

I agree with former DG-ISI Lt. Gen. (retd.) Gul's assesment that Abdullah Abdullah will be our best bet vis-a-vis Afghan elections.

If we can bridge the gap between him and the Afghan mujahideen forces (not an easy task) and continue to be instrumental in the reconciliation process - I wouldnt be as worried about Afghanistan.

Karzai the puppet of Kabul has been installed there in his creaky kursi since 2001; since that time he's been less than cooperative and worked with india against Pakistan....once he's erased from the picture, things couldnt get worse than they are

worst case scenario - tear up our signature on Geneva Conventions, landmine the border and then re-focus our resources on the eastern flank overlooking occupied Kashmir (which in either case, I would support)

Couldn't agree more with your analysis,Sir...there is obvious unrest in Indian security apparatus keeping in view post 2014 afghan scenario,One obviously can sense Haste in Arms procurement by Indian Forces in the recent past and near future..

And you know what came after 90's .. dont you ??

who know's it may be 80's especially mid 80's followed by 90's..

P:S...going to sleep,have to go to work tomorow,so see u after 20 hours..

 

[jaunty]

I agree with former DG-ISI Lt. Gen. (retd.) Gul's assesment that Abdullah Abdullah will be our best bet vis-a-vis Afghan elections.
If we can bridge the gap between him and the Afghan mujahideen forces (not an easy task) and continue to be instrumental in the reconciliation process - I wouldnt be as worried about Afghanistan.

Wasn't Abdullah Abdullah a close associate of Norther Alliance? He would probably show you Taliban supporters the boot for unnecessary interference.

 

[illusion8]

Dude.. you think you have persevered and its all over.. it hasnt even started..and about the jibe about the sms.. well, we didnt have to even send an SMS. Some random guy made a film in California and Pakistan burned.. Think about that now

Just wait while USA gets out of Afg. The fun will start then...


yup.. you folks were as confident in 1971 as well

The SMSes and the fake images were circulated all over the world among Muslims so it wasn't exactly a targeted sort of an spy operation on India specifically - though TOI made a big deal about it - 1. to pass on the blame to our dear neighbor and 2. to have an external source point of trouble makers to shift the blame from the locals, the illegal Bangladeshi's in India reacting the way they did was a surprise though and have exposed the extent of their spread.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Wasn't Abdullah Abdullah a close associate of Norther Alliance? He would probably show you Taliban supporters the boot for unnecessary interference.

Ahmed Shah Massoud (whom despite our differences in the end - I have HUGGGE respect for as a freedom fighter) -- we worked with him since the beginning of the anti soviet jihad. CIA worked with him.

He was a Tajik, not a Pakhtun. Incidentally, not all Afghans in Pakistan are Pakhtuns. There are also Tajiks and Hazaras as well (we have one on this forum). Pakistan took sides, as did other regional countries. So be it. At the end of the day, Pakistan has done more for Afghanistan than any other group of countries COMBINED! That is incontrovertible.

while on the subject of Abdullah Abdullah

Pak-Afghan circles dismiss qualms about Abdullah’s background – The Express Tribune

Invasions are a thing of past.. Springs are more in fashion these days.. If you know what I mean

I hear ya! And having 22+ potential "springs" could lead to uncomfortably warm and humid "summers" if you know what I mean

Yup.. One movie in California.. a Dozen dead in Pakistan. Reactionaries indeed

massive lay-offs led to 41 dozen dead in Gujrat in '69. Reactionaries indeed (i guess its tradition especially in that state)

 

[jaunty]

while on the subject of Abdullah Abdullah

Pak-Afghan circles dismiss qualms about Abdullah’s background – The Express Tribune

The fact that such articles have been written shows that there are qualms about his background. However that doesn't mean that he would be anti Pakistan. But I am not sure if he would appreciate your patronizing attitude of trying to bridge the gap between him and Talibans. He would most likely try to do that on his own if he wants to go that way. Otherwise ANA is getting stronger by the day. Also don't forget the fact that Americans would not want to see the country immediately going back the hands of Taliban. It is not as simple as you made it sound like.

 

[acid rain]

As per your logic, Pakistan wasn't a country until 1971.

Names of the country change,Maps of the country change but country is defined by its citizens.

Thats Pakistani logic - it also co relates to - there was nothing called the Ottoman civilization, or Roman civilization or Persian civilization or chinese civilization because they were multiple kingdoms with multiple kings and the boundaries were only finalized recently.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The fact that such articles have been written shows that there are qualms about his background.

what happens in Afghanistan directly affects Pakistan....anyone with even pea-sized brain matter inside their skulls would be cognizant of that

However that doesn't mean that he would be anti Pakistan. But I am not sure if he would appreciate your patronizing attitude of trying to bridge the gap between him and Talibans.

Pro talebs allegedly killed Karzai's father and despite that he called the talebs his "brothers" (I found that a bit bizarre).

As for bridging the gap and promoting reconciliation - it is something Pakistan will push for. In 1990s after we defeated the soviets, we made the mistake of taking sides. At the time it made sense, but on the broader scheme of things we should have worked assiduously to end the ethnic fighting and factionalization of the country. We had little control over that as it was an internal affair.

Today - I think Afghans by and large are fed up of war and want to move forward. We have the means to help assist in that -- as has been discussed here and as has been discussed by officials on both sides. NATO is desperate also to see that happen as they prepare to slowly make their exit.

He would most likely try to do that on his own if he wants to go that way. Otherwise ANA is getting stronger by the

With the ANA - it'll be hit or miss. Past 2 years have seen overtly hostile actions and statements on both sides. However, the ANA is over-staffed and still will require foreign support (to pay salaries, maintain supplies, training, logistics etc.). The Afghan economy on its own can simply not afford to fund such a force independently. The UAE suggested that the militaries of Muslim nations (e.g. Turkiye) should play a peace-keeping role as they would not be seen as occupiers per se.

I agree with such a proposal though it may not materialize, given ongoing events in N. Africa/Middle East

Also don't forget the fact that Americans would not want to see the country immediately going back the hands of Taliban. It is not as simple as you made it sound like.

it's not simple but neither is it too complicated (the broader picture, not the intricacies)

NATO just wants OUT in a dignified manner. Any way that can end a potential civil war - they will opt for it. They have taken Pakistan into confidence on this matter - at least certain policy circles in Washington. Many exist. Al qaeda's capabilities in the region have been significantly eroded. More attention is going towards Gulf of Aden; and of course South China Sea where other games will be brewing shortly.

Mullah Omar - who is said to be influential - is signalling that he isn't averse to peace talks. Why do you think the Americans haven't whacked him? They know where he is! (true story)

As per your logic, Pakistan wasn't a country until 1971.

Names of the country change,Maps of the country change but country is defined by its citizens.

I got a good laugh from that one....you realize you did just contradict yourself right?

"maps change but citizens stay the same"

tell that to the Tatars in Crimea

 

[jaunty]

what happens in Afghanistan directly affects Pakistan....anyone with even pea-sized brain matter inside their skulls would be cognizant of that

Completely agreed. That is why it seems weird when Pakistanis here talk about the American withdrawal with a lot of winkies. If Afghanistan gets destabilized again, at worst Indians would have to pack their bags and leave but Pakistan's tribal areas in the west might come under direct influence. So a stable Afghanistan is in everyone's interest.

The rest of your post is speculative, I guess we will see how things pan out.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Completely agreed. That is why it seems weird when Pakistanis here talk about the American withdrawal with a lot of winkies. If Afghanistan gets destabilized again, at worst Indians would have to pack their bags and leave but Pakistan's tribal areas in the west might come under direct influence.

The rest of your post is speculative, I guess we will see how things pan out.

Policy circles in Pakistan are also divided on the subject. People analyze things differently, they aren't robots who think unanimously. A visit to Parliament would confirm that.

As for tribal areas - they would be dismally affected but then again things can't get much worse than they were especially between 2005-2010. . .You have tribes that have existed on both sides of the border for centuries; kind of like Saudi Arabia's border with Yemen. There are historic and linguistic ties but with that said - the military would never allow things to reach a point of no control. Several clean-up operations past and ongoing confirm that.

acts of terrorism involving non-state actors have decreased significantly, by the grace of God.

So a stable Afghanistan is in everyone's interest.

yes, it is

The rest of your post is speculative, I guess we will see how things pan out.

what isn't these days

we can continue this discussion elsewhere if/when you like

 

[kadamba-warrior]

It is amazing how some people here can claim nonchalantly that India didn't exist before the partition! In the early 60-70's (pre-Zia Era) you would be laughed at for making such a suggestion. There is a difference between India and "Republic of India" just as there is difference between nations and modern definition of nation states.

It is not only preposterous to suggest so but it is also part of a very conscious but lame attempt by some propaganda machines to undermine the history of ancient land that India has been. Not surprising then that they claim India has nothing to do with IVC.

Goes on to show how a propaganda repeated again and again over generations, ultimately begins to be accepted as mainstream. All in the name of justifying the explosive Two-Nation-Theory, eh!?

On Topic, I think it was the US rather than Indira that really wanted India to attempt such a crazy invasion -- just so that it could have an excuse to bifurcate another Soviet ally. It was in Soviets' interest to make sure that India didn't attempt anything as crazy as this and lose an ally to another conflict (a la Korea, Vietnam).

 

[Pakistanisage]

Aae jati budhi Mai, kyon nahi aaee ?