India's Worst Fears and Our Military Options For Sir Creek,Kutch and Kathiawar Regions of Gujrat

[Nilgiri]

You cant be taking it serious.

Groucho Marx is/was to be taken seriously....till your sides hurt!

This stuff is just....saçma I think the word? Very boring kind too.

This is not a serious forum.

What gave it away?

 

[T-123456]

This stuff is just....saçma I think the word? Very boring kind too.

Thats the word,exactly.
Saçma

 

[Joe Shearer]

You cant be taking it serious.

Of course not. But it is good for these boring days of lock-down.

Groucho Marx is/was to be taken seriously....till your sides hurt!

This stuff is just....saçma I think the word? Very boring kind too.



What gave it away?

LOLOL.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

All of India should ideally belong to Pakistan.

They would do a better job at delivering justice to the millions of people.

currently in India the administration cares more about cows.

 

[Zapper]

HISTORICAL CASE FOR OUR CLAIM
1) These regions were once part of the Indus Valley civilisation,as the river Indus once passed there.
2)The Pathans of Gujarat were rulers of a number of princely states there, the main ones being Balasinor, Radhanpur, Palanpur and Junagadh and many many more.
3)There are a few million Kutchi and Kathiawari Gujarati living in Karachi. They are the among most the prominent Businessmen,Industrialists,Politicians and Philanthropists of the country.
4)The founder of the nation,Quaid e Azam was a Kathiawari Gujarati.
5)These regions are geographically and historically integrated to the mainland Pakistan.
6)The States Of Junagarh and Manawadar of Western Kathiawar agency joined Pakistan in 1947. The Nawab and his descendants reside in Karachi and still
claim to be the rightful Nawab of the state in ABSENTIA.

Junagarh -Tombs of the Nawabs

THE REASONS FOR INDIAN FEARS
1)Since our independence there has been no maritime boundary between Pakistan and India because of the pending issue of Sir Creek.
2)The unmarked maritime border between Sindh and Kutch allows free movement of fisherman from both sides resulting in arrests(Fish rich area).
3)The unmarked maritime border has resulted in several thousand square kilometres of disputed oceanic shelf, which is rumoured to be rich in oil and natural gas.
4)The sailing of an armed laden small boat from Karachi to Mumbai without interruption in 2008 can be a prelude to a bigger disaster in Kutch and Kathiawar in the future(Indian Sources).

Excerpts from CM Modi's letter(2012)
"During my recent visit to the coastal district of Kutch,Kathiawar( Saurashtra) region and the border districts of northern Gujarat, I found there is GENUINE FEAR among the people regarding their SAFETY and the SECURITY of the state of Gujarat. I am of the firm opinion that Kutch, Saurashtra and north Gujarat have vast potential of oil and gas, both offshore and onshore. Any attempt to hand over Sir Creek will be a STRATEGIC BLUNDER, considering the HISTORY and SENSITIVITY of the region."
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/nor...n-of-kutchmaritime-boundary-124418-2012-12-16

PAKISTAN'S MILITARY OPTIONS
The Kutch border with Sindh is the most fortified border after the LOC. Our military planners have already laid down some surprises for India,and Kutch-Kathiawar are no exception to it. Our experts in this forum have also written a lot on the mechanised military manoeuvres in the KUTCH region in their recent threads.
I will like to add my my two cents into it.
1)Before hostilities infiltrate as much supplies into the region as possible. Including arms,ammunition,medicines and rations etc and establish a solid intelligence network. Identify locals that are willing to collaborate. There are many that have fond memories of the Junagarh dynasty.
2)Activate the Hur Mujahid Force (HMF)by providing them with further training and hardware. The Hur jamaat has a lot of influence in the border areas adjacent to Pakistan. The light carriers and jeeps they operate are adequate to sprint in the Rann of Kutch as heavier military vehicles have a tendency to sink in the marshlands. The Hurs in the Mangrio,Malah and Rajar biradaries are boat specialists as well(fishermen by trade). The Hurs can be called upon in an hours notice.Their Patriotism and love for the motherland(dharti Maa) certainly does make me emotional.

Hurs assembling at the border.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108686885558218753

Pir Pagaro leading his men to the border.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108687752134979584

3) The Kutchi and Kathiawari Gujaratis(KKG) of Karachi are always the first ones to sign up for war volunteers when the need arises. Pak Navy has a lot of them. Their command on the Kutchi and Kathiawari dialects can be a useful resource when consolidating gains. A dedicated Brigade or two of these Pakistanis can be formed.
4) Expeditionary forces(EF) headed by a three star General of the Pakistan Army can be formed working under the principles laid down in the Combined Arms Doctrine.
5)The EF will constitute PA,PAF,PN,PN-Marines,SSG,SSGN,HMF,KKG,Sindh Rangers and local volunteers in Kutch-Kathiawar(LV).
6)Some out of the box solutions,stealth,blitzkrieg,innovative hardware and planning should be inducted.
a)Rapid deployment motor bike/quadbike Battalion just like the Iranians,armed with RPGs,MGs,AAMs and ATGMs.

View attachment 624764
b)Inducting different variants of Drones and in particular considering SWARM DRONE TACTICS. The Chinese,Turks and US have done a lot of work on them.Each country deploying different methodologies.
https://www.swarm-troopers.com/chinese-swarming-aattack-drone-video/
c)Deploying the ZUBR class Hovercraft with the help of China and Ukraine. These beasts are a fortress in their own capacity and are a game changer.

d) Turboprops for CAS ,Mobile Mortar systems,SSGN Submarines and many many more latest innovative techniques and hardware can be inducted. Midget submarines can be useful for coastal specialist troop deployments and supplies.
View attachment 624765
7)After initiation of hostilities Salients of Nagarparkar(Sindh),Kala dungar mountain(Kutch),Lakadia road Junction(Kutch)and Bhuj Airport should be consolidated for supplies and choking the Kathiawar region.(map borrowed from Signalian)

Various vectors from which different EFs are attacking :
1. The sea assault near Lakhpat,Jakhau,Mandvi,Pipar2. Landbridge from Badin and Sir Creek axis 3. Nagarparkar(Karoonjhar) over the lake to Lakadia jn 4. Nagarparkar(Karoonjhar) around the lake to Kala Dungar5. Heliborne and Paratroopers around Bhuj Airport.
CONCLUSION
The Indians know it in their bone that this assault will come one day. Its about time we reclaim our legitimate lands .With proper planning this GRAND victory will propel Pakistan to the new heights of GLORY.

Since your historical claims are mostly based on the respective kings ruling over those lands which you feel should rightfully belong to Pak after the partition

On that note, the whole of J&K was acceded to India by Maharaja Hari Singh...let's start with that and handover the whole of AJK & GB after which we can start consultations about your claims

 

[KhanBaba2]

Just point and chuckle:

Admin:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...o-a-muslim-congregation.659724/#post-12199472

A "proposed" new mod:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/is-the-game-over-for-china.660893/#post-12222813

Both recent posts. Thumbs up stronk too!

It is not nice to poke fun at the frustration of others.

I think I am not a nice person.

 

[Krptonite]

All of India should ideally belong to Pakistan.

They would do a better job at delivering justice to the millions of people.

currently in India the administration cares more about cows.

How so?
In what administrative field has GoP outperformed GoI and how does that translate to better management of a territory markedly bigger than what they have.

Or are we giving up Territories based on religion again?
If so then you missed the bus in 47.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Haji Pir Pass, for instance; at present, it serves as a junction for transiting adventurers for their three months of life of adventure.

The Neelum Valley, for another; it only serves to site artillery bases for the other side, and the sooner this is taken away from them, the better.

When you are coming to take them?

On that note, the whole of J&K was acceded to India by Maharaja Hari Singh...let's start with that and handover the whole of AJK & GB after which we can start consultations about your claims

Same was done for Junagadh openly.

 

[Krptonite]

When you are coming to take them?

Probably around the same time jingoistic posters here feel that PA will "walk in" and take parts of India willy nilly.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Probably around the same time jingoistic posters here feel that PA will "walk in" and take parts of India willy nilly.

Well this is a military forum,you are free to design attack of your own and post it.

 

[padamchen]

All of India should ideally belong to Pakistan.

They would do a better job at delivering justice to the millions of people.

currently in India the administration cares more about cows.

Bollocks.

An ideal setup to allay their fears and still not split the land and people would have been a federal type structure where the Muslim states maintain their own standing army, the rest of India its own, and leave the building and running of the undivided country to the Hindus who obviously have a track record of doing a better job.

Through history.

 

[Krptonite]

Well this is a military forum,you are free to design attack of your own and post it.

If I fantasize about conquests, I play strategy games, scratch that itch so to speak and then promptly return to other productive avenues.

For all the imaginative plans posted here, rarely do any converge towards fruitful exchange, fragile egos and potent toxicity make any such discussion improbable. Why waste time point scoring or bashing each other without any conclusive benefit.

 

[Joe Shearer]

When you are coming to take them?

Oh, no hurry. There's no clock ticking away; every day, every week, every month, the economic distance widens, so the longer we wait, the better our prospects.

You have to look at our artillery situation, for instance. We have four towed artillery types, with ranges from 27 to 45 kms. The furthest ranging one, at 45 kms, is also the heaviest, and cannot be placed where they would do the most good, in the north of the Vale. The lightest is actually shorter-ranged than 27 kms (my mistake).

There are many other issues, and it would be an inhuman thing to do to rush into action, get into a military adventure and cost lives.

Same was done for Junagadh openly.

Not really, but I shan't start a brangle on this point. I have learnt that if any effective point is made that undercuts the Pakistani position, office holders will take a position. Let it pass, and let us note your statement and go on.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Oh, no hurry. There's no clock ticking away; every day, every week, every month, the economic distance widens, so the longer we wait, the better our prospects.

You have to look at our artillery situation, for instance. We have four towed artillery types, with ranges from 27 to 45 kms. The furthest ranging one, at 45 kms, is also the heaviest, and cannot be placed where they would do the most good, in the north of the Vale. The lightest is actually shorter-ranged than 27 kms (my mistake).

There are many other issues, and it would be an inhuman thing to do to rush into action, get into a military adventure and cost lives.

Sigh,while everything is being done of India,Pakistan sits idle hence gap continues each hour.
M777, it would solve all issues and it would outgun PA arty also.

 

[BL33D]

Just point and chuckle:

Admin:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...o-a-muslim-congregation.659724/#post-12199472

A "proposed" new mod:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/is-the-game-over-for-china.660893/#post-12222813

Both recent posts. Thumbs up stronk too!

@padamchen

Genie is long out of bottle w.r.t their psyche after a certain reality was harshly and quickly served in Dhaka...that too by such "1 of us is 10 of them" pagan infidels they look down on.

Religious dogma/zeal is used as needed to support it (and whole point of the national purity test formation concept)...when other times the haram dancing girls, booze and whatever else flows in same "top military clown stronk" environment. But I suppose any hypocrisy is fine once you simply "establish" a precept with your feelings that can be "aspired" to.

They thus similarly live with that indelible reality each time they see the world map and see certain flags.... but at other times forced to confront what their founding father would have last seen on map himself.

Aukat and izzat dissonance is a cruel persistent hangover when sobered up. There are few harsh choices to explore on the purity test founded upon....none of them good.....but its best to wish it away and/or stay hooked on the emotion dreaming totally.

People that are more sanguine and less affected by rush of blood to head antics can follow vein (similar to this topic supposition) of actual stoic analysis in this thread (before and after this strong post):

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/a-vi...losophy-doctrine.561888/page-10#post-12241332

Its simply putting unachievable goalposts to keep the money flowing in and giving the public some hope of greater victory after the embarrassment in 71. Its understandable.