India's patience on terror not unlimited: Robert Gates

[Nemesis]

P.S - The SH-IT will really hit the fan when you have nukes flying over our heads!! Rest everything else is small potatoes! So think about that because our 'meter' will go haywire long before your could say Incredible India!!

Your references in favour of nuclear war in every post is intriguing. I wonder whether you're actually aware of the effects of it on your own nation, and ours? I would ask you to watch a film called "Threads". Very informative film (and highly depressing) on the effects of on a nation post nuclear war.

Please advocate suicidal policies elsewhere. And consult a good psychiatrist.

 

[naved_kam]

Let's make it clear to our indian friends:

You are more than welcomed to doubt whether China will directly involved in your "possible" war with Pakistan, but even your hardcore nationalists would not deny the capacity of China's production.

Let me just assure you guys one thing -- you invade Pakistan, which is China's only ally, you should expect unlimited army supplies be provided to Pakistan from China.

The choice is clear and easy for indians -- be America's cheap toy, or behave yourself and stop being south Asia's terrorists.

In all the indirect skirmishes that you have had, you were covertly supporting a distant enemy against a near ally. So please consider the geo-policital scenario of the situation that you are proposing here. Also, "actions create reactions", I know it is not a Chinese saying but still... give it a thought. My impression was that you would have understood that after your gung ho agression against Vietnam. If things were so easy for you, ever given it a thought why those beautiful people in ROC still defy you with ease? (Now please do not come back and say that Chinese men do not drool over the aboriginal Taiwanese girls, I have heard that too many times in H.K, Chiina and Taipei).

While you are at it, give a thought to the changing situation in Myanmaar too. Also in your assertions consider the relationship with Australia now. Do you realize why this is changing? Because, you are ahead in the game only till the world thinks is inappropriate to play by your rules. But once it is house rules, you go sssshhhh. Whether directly or indirectly, China will not make any impact on an India - Pakistan conflict. Now now, I did not say that you will not try, China is a creature of habit, they cannot stay away from an opportunity of creating chaos in its neighbourhood and make some else die doing its bidding, but once again, you will not make any impact. So please Sssshhhhhh.

I have some words to say regarding your understanding of economics but that comes in reply to another of your rants.

 

[naved_kam]

please don't overestimate the importance of your economy.

when you say "at the cost of China India trade", please keep in mind that india imports our mobile phones, core network routers, cars, power generators, what you export to China? curry? without those affordable imports from China, your poor people will have to spend more and buy these stuff from US or Europe, can you afford that?

As promised, now a discussion on your economic fallacies.

Okay, the market equilibrium does not end at demand and supply. Both are elastic and also inelastic, so a lot of other factors play in. And when this is about geo-politics then the term Geo-Political economies. Of course this is a broad based term encompassing host of geo-politics related economic initiatives but for today let us limit this discussion to your assertion as above.

Because you understand better with examples from India, heregoes.

There was an economic embargo on the space development program of India. It is not that India could not pay for this technology or the world could not manufacture it, but it was not purely economic reasons, it was politico-economic reasons.

However, that led India to invest its own resources and create initiatives so much so that today the cost of ISRO payload on launches is less than 1/10th of international space agencies.

So where am I trying to get at? Your idea that if China is not supplying the product to another country will hurt the importing country is slightly uneducated. A supplier never threatens to dry out customers, specially in cases where it has no monopoly over supplies or the manufacturing technology.

You also understand U.S examples too so, ever wondered why the impending protectionism from Unites States might hurt your economy and why your government is so worried and vocal about it. It is not that U.S will produce cheaper than your cost of manufacturing, it is just that they will not want to buy your product and instead source it internally thus even though expensive but still creating internal demand and not external demand.

So instead of threatening of stopping supplies, you should be worried about the scenario when your importer believes that the threshold of relative benefits has been crossed in favor of creating internal supply sources.

Though you may be naive in making the assertion in your above post but your government understands the implication of this scenario. Case in point, when the Korean Won has been low, your government has been very keen to extend a credit line to Korea and also to create demand in China for Korean products to make the currency hold and recover. While this if done will help Korea in the short term but if not done, will hurt you in the long term. Why? Because, Won at its current levels, for the first time, will make Korean exports cheaper than yours.

Lastly you may want to hide behind technology, but I have something to say to you there. I do business in China, a lot of it and I know that all your state owned organizations took the route of licensed manufacturing in order to get the technology. Nothing wrong it in. Frist it was Germany from U.K then Japan from Germany then Korea from Japan and now it is China from Korea. But what is to be seen is the development of technology by any country based on this licensed manufacturing opportunity. In fact, in the business that I am in, though it is related to manufacturing machineries, the level of research in Chinese companies has been so low that now when the demand for the old technology of the early 80s is over, these manufacturers are in a fix. It is because, the government did not deliver on most of these manufacturing license agreements with the foreign companies and now the foreign companies are not ready to share the new generation technology with them.

That is why hacking and internet espionage is a state policy of China. But then, it was always about gettng things done indirectly or by stealing....... wasn't it.

See that is why you will not get in to a direct confrontation with India in case of a India-Pakistan conflict and hence the saying that you will fight India to the last Pakistani alive.

When you post your GDP numbers the next time, also post the classification of internal consumption and exports. You will then understand why trade is the biggest influencer in geo-political relationships.

 

[asq]

I don't need to prove the obvious mate. Musharraf himself accepted that proxy war is a state policy of Pakistan at India Times Summit, what bigger proof do you want from me? should I post the link to the youtube video where he says so?

Listen at 1:07 Musharraf sahab accepted that Pakistan does it.

LmDz3w4fC0o[/media] - Musharraf Slapped by Indian Muslim

Arun Shourie questions Musharraf

IrPV-qIyk_k[/media] - Gen Musharraf at India today enclave 2009 Q&A part 1

My Arse is shut mate.. U need to mind your mouth which is worse than my Arse.. talking sh!t does no one any good.

u Dudes are misreading him and undermining his good nature by putting this video up, it is shamefull.

Kashmiris have been fighting agasinst india since 1947 and they continue to do so, the attck in Bombay though very bad was done by a Kshmiri group, we donot agree with it and soon as u provided us with proof we arested those resoponsible of this hienous act.

So please spare me with this blame game and talk some sense becking it with truth. When u do We will act as we did in Bombay case.

 

[naved_kam]

I have already pointed it out - india needs something to fool its own people, to let them feel threatened by some foreign sources. such feeling could stop them from questioning the economic failure of its regime.

My friend, you never ssshhhhh..... do you? What do you know about fooling people? It is a tall claim coming from you considering that the information sources and even the internet in China is censored to ensure filtering of unconvenient information. So who's fooling???? But then, evaluating your thoughts about geo-politics and economics, it looks that you have already been fooled. Good luck my friend.

 

[naved_kam]

trust me one thing dude, whenever there are such comparison on Chinese forums, there are always some people jump into the discussion and say "oh, please just migrate to india where you can vote and have uncensored internet". that comment would immediately finish the blah blah and change the topic of discussion to "why indians just couldn't fix it".

Do your friends on that forum also discuss how their elders felt with their forced castration and the one child policy. Seriously have ur friends on the referred regulated/filtered forum realize how many of their siblings mayhave been murdered by their government?? Try getting their views on this for me please.

 

[AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer]

Gates, in India, Warns of Regional Militant Threat

By ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: January 20, 2010
NEW DELHI — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates warned Wednesday that the interconnected extremist groups on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border were working to destabilize the entire region and that “a victory for one was a victory for all.”

Speaking in New Delhi at a news conference after meetings with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India and the country’s defense and external affairs ministers, Mr. Gates said that Taliban groups and other militant groups operating under the umbrella of Al Qaeda intended to destabilize not just Afghanistan and Pakistan but India as well. Mr. Gates, who was in the middle of a two-day visit to India’s capital, said the groups could provoke conflict between India and Pakistan, and that focusing on only one extremist group for elimination was not the solution.

“It’s dangerous to single out any one of these groups and say, ‘If we could beat that group that would solve the problem,’ because they are in effect a syndicate of terrorist operators,” Mr. Gates said. In short, he said, “the success of any one of these groups leads to new capabilities and a new reputation for all.”

Mr. Gates said he welcomed India’s support in the war in Afghanistan — perhaps including a small role in training Afghan security forces — but implicitly rejected the deployment of any Indian troops in the country because of the reaction of Pakistan.

The two countries, violently carved apart in 1947 at the end of British rule, have fought several wars and harbor deep suspicions of one another. India maintains a large force along its with Pakistan; militant groups once nurtured by Pakistan’s intelligence service have struck at Indian targets, including Mumbai in 2008, and India’s embassy in Kabul last year. There is a festering rivalry over which country controls Kashmir.

India has poured aid and investment into Afghanistan steadily since the toppling of the Taliban in 2001, spending more than a billion dollars so far on infrastructure, schools and hospitals. India is working on a new building for the Afghan Parliament as well as a crucial 124-mile road across Nimroz Province that will link Afghanistan, a landlocked country, to an Iranian port.

Some of these projects have been uncontroversial, but Pakistan suspects India of using Afghanistan to destabilize Pakistan’s western border and resents any threat to its influence in the country.

“Let’s be honest with one another here, there are real suspicions in both India and Pakistan about what the other is doing in Afghanistan,” Mr. Gates said. “And so I think that focusing each country, focusing its efforts on development, on humanitarian assistance, perhaps in some limited areas of training, but with full transparency toward each other in what they’re doing, would help allay these suspicions.”

Later in the day, Mr. Gates traveled to Agra to tour the Taj Mahal, then returned to New Delhi for a dinner with Indian military officials.

Lydia Polgreen contributed reporting from New Delhi.

Source : Gates, in India, Warns of Regional Militant Threat - NYTimes.com

 

[asq]

If internet is sensored in china, than it is their policy, who am i to object, I rather stop internet rubish like pronos and false propoganda exposed to my childerns, will go with all that is decent and truthfull and enlightening.

freedom of speech does not allow bad mouthing, porno and insutive talks, it is not civilised. And civilised people refrain from doing any such things and if china thinks it is below dignity, manners and civilised behaviour than be it, it is their choice, we should commend it if China is trying to stop dirty pics and pornos.

 

[naved_kam]

If internet is sensored in china, than it is their policy, who am i to object, I rather stop internet rubish like pronos and false propoganda exposed to my childerns, will go with all that is decent and truthfull and enlightening.

freedom of speech does not allow bad mouthing, porno and insutive talks, it is not civilised. And civilised people refrain from doing any such things and if china thinks it is below dignity, manners and civilised behaviour than be it, it is their choice, we should commend it if China is trying to stop dirty pics and pornos.

asq, mere bhai. It is not about flitering content. In cultures which are sensitive to it, it could be justified to filter pornographic images or gory content. But then that is not the censoring the world refers to when discussing Chinese internet regulation. It is censoring of any information about the failure of their government and its policies. Evern tried to use internet in Xinxiang over the last months? I have. In my hotel it worked fine but when I was trying to access it from my customer's terminal, it does not work. This customer is "our walid ki umar", what **** are you talking about man????

Another example, I sent a message to my customer in Taipei where I was heading next and mentioned about the change in my flight timings to Taiwan. He never got the message. In fact, he had in the meanwhile written me a message asking about my flight details in to Taiwan and I got the message only after I landed at Taipei. If you mentioned words such as Taiwan, Government, Tianamen etc. your messages get tracked at the message centers boss. Kevin Rudd and Rio Tinto were not crying in vain at their employee being detained in China. There are several such cases. It is different there bro.

Tera mera jhagda to der saver sulajh jayega. Aur log mar jayenge, kam maren hai kya. Kuch aur sahi. But the only loser in our peace will be China and they will never want it.

 

[footmarks]

Let's make it clear to our indian friends:

You are more than welcomed to doubt whether China will directly involved in your "possible" war with Pakistan, but even your hardcore nationalists would not deny the capacity of China's production.

Let me just assure you guys one thing -- you invade Pakistan, which is China's only ally, you should expect unlimited army supplies be provided to Pakistan from China.

The choice is clear and easy for indians -- be America's cheap toy, or behave yourself and stop being south Asia's terrorists.

Hehe..look who is advising us!

If your PM would have said that, I wud have feared the words. Apart from CCP, anyone from china saying anything is just a joke. U cant do anything. Heck you cant even pressurise your govt. to act the way you are saying here. So my freind, keep on doing wat u are ALLOWED to do...troll.

 

[Dark Angel]

If internet is sensored in china, than it is their policy, who am i to object, I rather stop internet rubish like pronos and false propoganda exposed to my childerns, will go with all that is decent and truthfull and enlightening.

freedom of speech does not allow bad mouthing, porno and insutive talks, it is not civilised. And civilised people refrain from doing any such things and if china thinks it is below dignity, manners and civilised behaviour than be it, it is their choice, we should commend it if China is trying to stop dirty pics and pornos.

Do u think 170 million pakistanis would support u on this .........Its very easy to say something like that but when u see ERROR 404 Page not found for thousands of reasons it can easily give u a headache

 

[saffroncops]

Hi all i have been reading this forum for a long time...most of the info is superb ..any ways coming to the topic i find in all the topics a common person shchinese and his usual and the same rantings ""economy china..poor india "" indian GOI is fooling its people to divert attention etc etc .. when u talk about fooling/giving No/mis info (about the out side world) by an elected /forced government it comes under human right violation and against basic rules of freedom.

Few question to mr shchinese:
What is the use of so called dollars u earn whether it is 100 or 2 per day if u cant spend it the way u can??
u cant go to a movie of ur choice(avatar 2d removed from china)/eat a food of ur choice.
when ur forced by ur gov to buy gold.

ur symbol of heritage "China wall" is itself a symbol of opression built by 60-70% of chinese population employed at a given time in those days,the reason??
to restrict freedom of ur ppl by providing false info that some mongol ill screw u..

before laying allegations and abuses on some system and country just think over what ur system has given u??ur country has every thing but u have nothing.every thing belongs to one bloody party even ur breath..ha ha ha...

 

[saffroncops]

Originally Posted by shchinese
Let's make it clear to our indian friends:

You are more than welcomed to doubt whether China will directly involved in your "possible" war with Pakistan, but even your hardcore nationalists would not deny the capacity of China's production.

Let me just assure you guys one thing -- you invade Pakistan, which is China's only ally, you should expect unlimited army supplies be provided to Pakistan from China.

The choice is clear and easy for indians -- be America's cheap toy, or behave yourself and stop being south Asia's terrorists
###############
Ur are welcome to send ur whole troops to pakisoil to fight india..but i sec hold on china lacks guts ,the same old pussy feeling in 1971...
forget it CPC should extend it wall by a few more miles with such abandunt 140 crore slaves available to them instead of making tall claims,gone are those days of 1962.i even respect pakistan for it has send its troops for arab freinds in times of need,what has china done other than selling pirated versions of weapons???better go and study some history boy guess CPC doesnot provide u good info and with ur email accounts hacked and stuff i wont take the sins of forwarding fact to u guys on mail..

 

[Dark Angel]

Originally Posted by shchinese
Let's make it clear to our indian friends:

You are more than welcomed to doubt whether China will directly involved in your "possible" war with Pakistan, but even your hardcore nationalists would not deny the capacity of China's production.

Let me just assure you guys one thing -- you invade Pakistan, which is China's only ally, you should expect unlimited army supplies be provided to Pakistan from China.

The choice is clear and easy for indians -- be America's cheap toy, or behave yourself and stop being south Asia's terrorists
###############
Ur are welcome to send ur whole troops to pakisoil to fight india..but i sec hold on china lacks guts ,the same old pussy feeling in 1971...
forget it CPC should extend it wall by a few more miles with such abandunt 140 crore slaves available to them instead of making tall claims,gone are those days of 1962.i even respect pakistan for it has send its troops for arab freinds in times of need,what has china done other than selling pirated versions of weapons???better go and study some history boy guess CPC doesnot provide u good info and with ur email accounts hacked and stuff i wont take the sins of forwarding fact to u guys on mail..

OMG Man u just hit a homerun

 

[Peshwa]

Your Indian brethren are taking the revenge of a few terrorists scum form the whole Pakistani nation; case and point, recent IPL bidding, Gen Kapoor statements, Indian government's constant but failing bid to have Pakistan declared as a terrorist state, etc etc. We Pakistani's are against terrorists too, look what we have done in Swat and SWA! But we do not consider the Muslims of Indian Occupied Kashmir or folks helping them out in their struggle for a homeland as your 'terrorists scum!!' We consider them genuine freedom fighters and their efforts to get their rights in Kashmir a legitimate effort.

My suggestion to your Indian Brethren is liberate Indian Occupied Kashmir and allow them to choose their own destiny. The day you do that; our contention will remain no more and we all will thrive as two great but separate nations that we actually are.

P.S - The SH-IT will really hit the fan when you have nukes flying over our heads!! Rest everything else is small potatoes! So think about that because our 'meter' will go haywire long before your could say Incredible India!!

I dont understand how General Kapoors statements are in anyway making the ordinary Pakistani suffer....
Similarly, IPL fiasco has squat to do with foreign policy.....Its a private league and their decisions cannot be blamed on India and Indians.....In fact its the Indians who are more dissapointed at missing out on seeing some of the best players in their home teams.....
Both the above are baseless accusations and have been thrown into the mix to add masala to your argument....nothing more.....

As far as declaring Pakistan as a terrorist state, actions speak louder than words....India by itself can do very little without the world opinion resonating the same......(Think about it.....Do you think India can call out the UAE as a terrorist state or channel the world into thinking so without a proper cause or ample proof?)....So unless and until the terror infrastructure is dismantled on your side of the border and the roots of fundametalism are uprooted.....The world opinion will keep skewing without India having to add fuel to the fire....It has been Pakistans own inbreeding of Jihadi's that has brought it to this level.....NOT India!!!

Also....The scum of Kashmir that you call "Freedom fighters" and "Shaheed" are no more than mere terrorist the minute they spill innocent Indian blood...which they have done time and again.....
A terrorist is a terrorist if he kills innocent people whether he attacks in Karachi, Srinagar or Timbuctu....
Word of advice.....quit trying to label a terrorist "good vs bad" as you do with TTP, Afghan Taliban, and Kashmiri terrorists.....They all deserve to be at the receiving end of Indian and Pakistani guns....
(Pray tell: Would you be fine with Indians sympathizing with the TTP or the BLA?)

Secondly, you need to chill out with the over the top comments.....
Threats like the highlighted statements you have made to a nation that outmatches you in pretty much every field and counting only speaks for the reckless attitude that many in your country and leadership use to "try" to intimidate and bring India to the table.....Trust me when I say.....We Indians want peace...but its attitude like this that makes us not want to give a sh!t.....If you dont respect us, you expect us to respect you with idle threats that you dont have the means to execute....
Causes hardly a stir amongst us.....