India’s non-military strategic methods explored to wrest back Azad Kashmir & GB

[Cliftonite]

There is no strategy on this planet greater than planned brute Power. The sooner Pakistan realizes this the better it is. Example, China, who just walks in and takes over indian territory without firing a shot due to its Power. Did China waste its time producing fancy movies and posters? No. Did it launch millions of pre-preemptive social media campaigns? No.

Exactly!

 

[Aspen]

There is no strategy on this planet greater than planned brute Power. The sooner Pakistan realizes this the better it is. Example, China, who just walks in and takes over indian territory without firing a shot due to its Power. Did China waste its time producing fancy movies and posters? No. Did it launch millions of pre-preemptive social media campaigns? No.

Exactly

Also, even if Pakistan doesn't have more brute power, we should at least have more asymmetric power like Iran or Turkey. Pakistan defense leadership should be taken behind the barn and shot for not having already created a Pakistan Drone Force (PDF) and a Pakistan Cyber Force (PCF) years ago. The sheer incompetence of Pakistan's defense strategy is eclipsed only by even bigger incompetence of India's defense strategy. Good thing Pakistan doesn't have a competent enemy like Iran or Turkey, because otherwise we'd be toast like the Saudis. Pakistan needed a hacker and drone squadron yesterday, frankly it is a disgrace that we don't have it already. When India revoked 370, all Pakistan did was issue some empty verbal threats that meant absolutely nothing. If it was Iran or Turkey, they would have drone striked anything that moved at Indian military bases after Aug 5 like a real country. Our military leadership cannot do anything but give verbal threats, and they can only handle an equally incompetent adversary like India that barks a lot but doesn't bite. Our military leadership would not be able to deal with a competent enemy like Iran or Turkey given the level of cowardly inaction they are showing against an incompetent military like that of India. It would not have been that difficult to do something, anything in response to 370, but Pak response was zilch. Nothing. We could have used used drones. We could have used cyber. But we did nothing. A terrible fate awaits those who are afraid to take strong and decisive action. Just look at Palestine.

Pakistan needs an earthquake to wake up its asymmetric defense strategy which is currently non-existent. It is the job of Pakistan military to counter India in Kashmir and they have failed miserably. Our military leadership is afraid to act and take the bold and decisive action that is needed to shift things in Kashmir in its favor the way that Iran and Turkey are doing. You can never win by being cautious and afraid of your enemy. You have to be brash, and to an extent reckless by taking big risks, and right now we are not doing that. It is only because India is even more incompetent than Pakistan that this has not become a bigger problem yet. But if we do nothing, one day Kashmir will become a nightmare like Palestine after they did nothing for years.

But it is not too late, if Pakistan military wakes up today and develops a real and comprehensive asymmetric strategy encompassing drones and cyber, then we can take back control of what we want like Iran or Turkey and put our enemies in the dustbin.

But does our military leadership have the resolve, commitment, and vision to do this? If not, they must be fired and replaced with someone who does.

Sounds like Pakistan has not learnt a single thing since the 1971. Our narrative is non-existent, lawlessness is at its peak, economy is in tatters, our ethnicities are used as pawns by enemies and corrupt and traitors can easily walk away without repercussions. I want to support Pakistan because no matter what, I am a Pakistani, but all of this makes me really sad.

Pakistan is not even fighting the enemy as much as it is fighting itself with different proxies employed by the enemy within its own boundry.

Yeah, Pakistan's asymmetric strategy is non-existent and this is a huge problem.

The only reason most people have not realized this problem yet is because India doesn't have an asymmetric strategy either so the gap is not that big yet. If one side develops a real asymmetric strategy, they will put the other side in the dustbin and then the advantage of asymmetric side will become crystal clear and expose the huge weakness of the other side's weakness in not having its own asymmetric strategy. If one side develops asymmetric strategy but not the other, the gap will become very big, heavy advantage to the side that has it. It is only because neither Pakistan nor India has it yet that most people do not realize the urgency to develop such a strategy, since neither side has it, the gap has not become apparent yet, but the gap will grow very quickly once either side starts the asymmetric race. Neither Pakistan nor India use drones or cyber strategy in any serious way. If you want to see how successful a real asymmetric strategy is at putting enemies in dustbin, look at what Turkey is doing in Libya or what Iran is doing in Yemen. The asymmetric gap is huge, Turkey is destroying Haftar with drones and slaughtering SAA in Syria, Houthis are humiliating Saudis with missiles over Riyadh and Iran is in a cyber battle with Israel and US. This is what next-gen warfare looks like.

But right now, I don't know if Pakistan or India will get head start on asymmetric race since both are sleeping. I think Pakistan will get head start because China is very far ahead technologically on drones and cyber and they do tech transfer with Pakistan of latest cutting edge Chinese military technologies because of interoperability with PLA. Turkey also wants to help Pakistan on drone development. But Pakistan will also have to take some initiative on drones and cyber by itself. I feel bad for India because there is no hope for them but that is good news for Pakistan.

We need a to come out of post 9/11 shock and reach out beyond Kashmir to naxals, north-east and communal divides. This time China would be a willing and active ally.

Pakistan needs to establish some proxies in eastern India, should've been done a long time ago. Also, we need to start making and flying long range drones that fly deep into Indian Ocean and then penetrate Indian airspace from Bay of Bengal to surprise IAF on eastern coast of India, to evenly distribute IAF across all of India.

Information is the weapon that they are using, Social Media is the platform or rather call it battlespace to deploy the weapon. You disrupt their communication and all will be smooth.....

• It is funny how Twitter, periscope & Zoom had a technical glitch on the night when SAATH conference was to be broadcasted, that affected their reach on live feed
• We have our own plan forward and work is being done on that, give it some time. Recently you would have heard that Anis Farooqui's twitter handle had unfortunate incident, is deleted by twitter, as someone put it out to me, Virtual Surgical Strike launched on to them

Hacking Indian propaganda conferences sounds like a fun idea

 

[Asian.Century]

It cannot happen. The Indian public has been misled and the media and political opposition have failed to bring out the truth."

 

[Bratva]

Problem is they have been left behind in developing their Information Warfare strategy. Lucky enough we had few sane voices in our country who started pushing on this more than half a decade ago.
Most of the work on Media Affairs was limited to Electronic Media & print Media, which was handled by a Naval Admiral at a certain organization, i can;t recall his name now (@Bratva , do you remember the name of this guy who used to handle the Media ? )... 2013 things took a little turn when RS came to power, all lot of work was done on developing InfoWar strategy, defining SOPs etc....If you look at last 6-7 yrs you will see how independent social media groups have emerged, all working proactively (or as Russians called it Active Measures) & independently to bust up everything thrown at them, PDF being one of them. (exclude ISPR trolls from the list, no disrespect to them, but they have turned into a joke lately. SOmeone needs to bring them back on line)

Which Time frame you're talking about? If you're talking about Pre Asim Bajwa time frame, then it was Rear Admiral Adnan Nazir who was handling media section at a certain organization. It is in the same era when Saleem Shehzad was assassinated. DG Media post in that certain Organization had always gone to a guy from Navy with Rear Admiral rank. If we see the trend from 2005-2015.

I guess after the Reformation and growth of ISPR under Asim Bajwa, Engaging electronic/print/social media role were given ISPR and this role were solidified under Asif ghafoor.

Now if Media wing exist in that certain organization, It probably be playing passive role supporting ISPR now a days?

 

[Amaa'n]

Which Time frame you're talking about? If you're talking about Pre Asim Bajwa time frame, then it was Rear Admiral Adnan Nazir who was handling media section at a certain organization. It is in the same era when Saleem Shehzad was assassinated. DG Media post in that certain Organization had always gone to a guy from Navy with Rear Admiral rank. If we see the trend from 2005-2015.

I guess after the Reformation and growth of ISPR under Asim Bajwa, Engaging electronic/print/social media role were given ISPR and this role were solidified under Asif ghafoor.

Now if Media wing exist in that certain organization, It probably be playing passive role supporting ISPR now a days?

Yes, Am referring to pre Asim Bajwa era. when Media wing of the organization was notorious for handling affairs in their own way. and your assessment is correct on other things too. ISPR has taken the lead role on handling S.M, print & electronic media post Asim Bajwa era, the organization is question is more on the passive front

 

[Signalian]

The one issue that will come back to bite Pakistan is the soft approach to the removal of article 370. The word on the street is majority of Kashmiris have lost complete faith in Pakistan. India is working hard to nip linkages between certain groups in Kashmir with Pakistan. Pretty soon , if not already, these fractions are weakening.

Once and if they integrate, their voice will be for the rest of Kashmir to be with them. The plan was executed perfectly and now it remains to be seen how it pans out. Hopes are high!

Sounds like Pakistan has not learnt a single thing since the 1971. Our narrative is non-existent, lawlessness is at its peak, economy is in tatters, our ethnicities are used as pawns by enemies and corrupt and traitors can easily walk away without repercussions. I want to support Pakistan because no matter what, I am a Pakistani, but all of this makes me really sad.

Pakistan is not even fighting the enemy as much as it is fighting itself with different proxies employed by the enemy within its own boundry.

We need a to come out of post 9/11 shock and reach out beyond Kashmir to naxals, north-east and communal divides. This time China would be a willing and active ally.

Since Pakistan faced a bigger foe in the form of India, there was requirement of an external ally to help curb Indian ambitions against AJK as well as find a methodology to liberate Kashmir whenever possible. First the ally was thought to be USA, but that plan fell through.

In 1999 Kargil war, India shifted troops from different regions of Kashmir towards Kargil. Witnessing lesser Indian military presence than usual in LAC, China was quick to make a supply road in the northern side of Ladakh within 10 days. This road comes into play 21 years later in 2020, today. Ajay Shukla, an indian defence analyst, calls it a track made in 1999, however its difficult to move heavy machinery on a track, so it rather seems to be a road.

Now, on the Indian side, there is a road leading to Daulat Beg Oldi which is an Indian military base in Ladakh. Chinese attempt was to move closer to this base through ingress into Ladakh, which so far they have managed to do so - atleast the supply road is within the sights of Chinese bunkers. Indian defence minister also admits that Chinese military has crossed LAC in large numbers, so yes PLA is sitting inside Ladakh at the moment.

Like i said above, Pakistan being a smaller country needed an ally which it found in the region as China to help with the Kashmir issue. The project of CPEC has little to do with Pakistan Military as its an economic corridor for civilian projects, yet the Pakistan Army is responsible for CPEC security, so how does the game play out ? The CPEC route in GB and AJK is threatened by Indian Military. To secure Azad kashmir and in future to possibly take over Indian Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan now has Chinese assistance for this purpose. Since China cannot let India threaten CPEC routes inside Pakistan, so China is now advancing inside India at 4 different places to threaten Indian territory and military bases as well as its supply and logistics routes. This is not just happening in Ladakh, but possibly will occur in Sikkim area too. Pakistan is playing wisely through China to check mate India.

 

[Sal12]

Since Pakistan faced a bigger foe in the form of India, there was requirement of an external ally to help curb Indian ambitions against AJK as well as find a methodology to liberate Kashmir whenever possible. First the ally was thought to be USA, but that plan fell through.

In 1999 Kargil war, India shifted troops from different regions of Kashmir towards Kargil. Witnessing lesser Indian military presence than usual in LAC, China was quick to make a supply road in the northern side of Ladakh within 10 days. This road comes into play 21 years later in 2020, today. Ajay Shukla, an indian defence analyst, calls it a track made in 1999, however its difficult to move heavy machinery on a track, so it rather seems to be a road.

Now, on the Indian side, there is a road leading to Daulat Beg Oldi which is an Indian military base in Ladakh. Chinese attempt was to move closer to this base through ingress into Ladakh, which so far they have managed to do so - atleast the supply road is within the sights of Chinese bunkers. Indian defence minister also admits that Chinese military has crossed LAC in large numbers, so yes PLA is sitting inside Ladakh at the moment.

Like i said above, Pakistan being a smaller country needed an ally which it found in the region as China to help with the Kashmir issue. The project of CPEC has little to do with Pakistan Military as its an economic corridor for civilian projects, yet the Pakistan Army is responsible for CPEC security, so how does the game play out ? The CPEC route in GB and AJK is threatened by Indian Military. To secure Azad kashmir and in future to possibly take over Indian Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan now has Chinese assistance for this purpose. Since China cannot let India threaten CPEC routes inside Pakistan, so China is now advancing inside India at 4 different places to threaten Indian territory and military bases as well as its supply and logistics routes. This is not just happening in Ladakh, but possibly will occur in Sikkim area too. Pakistan is playing wisely through China to check mate India.

Why not pakistan army create a dedicated corps for gilgit baltistan only to make it secure rather rely heavily on China for safety of GB while we know IA has recently created a whole new mountain corp for China which can also be deployed against Pakistan.

 

[American Pakistani]

And given how easy many Pakistanis fall for propaganda, it is an easier task for bhartis.

Just 2 recent examples come to mind,

Many Pakistanis fell for made in Bharti propaganda on Xinjiang.
Many Pakistanis fell with Shia Sunni divede made in bhart.

 

[Cliftonite]

And given how easy many Pakistanis fall for propaganda, it is an easier task for bhartis.

Just 2 recent examples come to mind,

Many Pakistanis fell for made in Bharti propaganda on Xinjiang.
Many Pakistanis fell with Shia Sunni divede made in bhart.

That only happens because we have next to no media voices of our own. Some news channels of ours should go to Urumqi and show how life is normal over there.

 

[Signalian]

Why not pakistan army create a dedicated corps for gilgit baltistan only to make it secure rather rely heavily on China for safety of GB while we know IA has recently created a whole new mountain corp for China which can also be deployed against Pakistan.

FCNA

 

[Bilal.]

Since Pakistan faced a bigger foe in the form of India, there was requirement of an external ally to help curb Indian ambitions against AJK as well as find a methodology to liberate Kashmir whenever possible. First the ally was thought to be USA, but that plan fell through.

In 1999 Kargil war, India shifted troops from different regions of Kashmir towards Kargil. Witnessing lesser Indian military presence than usual in LAC, China was quick to make a supply road in the northern side of Ladakh within 10 days. This road comes into play 21 years later in 2020, today. Ajay Shukla, an indian defence analyst, calls it a track made in 1999, however its difficult to move heavy machinery on a track, so it rather seems to be a road.

Now, on the Indian side, there is a road leading to Daulat Beg Oldi which is an Indian military base in Ladakh. Chinese attempt was to move closer to this base through ingress into Ladakh, which so far they have managed to do so - atleast the supply road is within the sights of Chinese bunkers. Indian defence minister also admits that Chinese military has crossed LAC in large numbers, so yes PLA is sitting inside Ladakh at the moment.

Like i said above, Pakistan being a smaller country needed an ally which it found in the region as China to help with the Kashmir issue. The project of CPEC has little to do with Pakistan Military as its an economic corridor for civilian projects, yet the Pakistan Army is responsible for CPEC security, so how does the game play out ? The CPEC route in GB and AJK is threatened by Indian Military. To secure Azad kashmir and in future to possibly take over Indian Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan now has Chinese assistance for this purpose. Since China cannot let India threaten CPEC routes inside Pakistan, so China is now advancing inside India at 4 different places to threaten Indian territory and military bases as well as its supply and logistics routes. This is not just happening in Ladakh, but possibly will occur in Sikkim area too. Pakistan is playing wisely through China to check mate India.

Yes but there is much more Pakistan and China can exploit within India to our advantage. Naxals, North-East movements putting direct and indirect pressure will yield the intended results.

Also we have almost given them free pass to conduct hybrid war with impunity and without the fear of equal response. Balance in this domain needs to be achieved.

 

[Sal12]

FCNA

FCNA has little over a division size strength. It's not a corp.

 

[Signalian]

FCNA has little over a division size strength. It's not a corp.

Corps is not required, FCNA is enough. 10th Corps is overlooking the sector through 12th ID and FCNA.
GB scouts need to be increased to Division level by adding two brigades, just like FC was expanded and then along with FCNA you will have a Corps sized strength formation.

 

[pzfz]

Sounds like Pakistan has not learnt a single thing since the 1971. Our narrative is non-existent, lawlessness is at its peak, economy is in tatters, our ethnicities are used as pawns by enemies and corrupt and traitors can easily walk away without repercussions. I want to support Pakistan because no matter what, I am a Pakistani, but all of this makes me really sad.

Pakistan is not even fighting the enemy as much as it is fighting itself with different proxies employed by the enemy within its own boundry.

Pak has willingly ceded space within its own borders and citizenry for others to play with. Apologists trotted out excuses (corruption, apnay bachey, wait for all to be educated, we don't want to give them reasons, those in know have more info than u so blah blah) when knowledgeable folk pointed out the dangerous lack of planning and inaction on behalf of Pak's institutions (from world's #1 agency to career protocol officers masquerading as diplomats).

 

[Sal12]

Corps is not required, FCNA is enough. 10th Corps is overlooking the sector through 12th ID and FCNA.
GB scouts need to be increased to Division level by adding two brigades, just like FC was expanded and then along with FCNA you will have a Corps sized strength formation.

What is the role of Special Security Division raised for CPEC in Gilgit Baltistan in any conflict with India. Will this not support FCNA. There is also a new division raised for security of Gawadar related to CPEC i.e. 44 Light Infantry.