India's Muslim politics is shifting course amid Hindu majoritarianism

[jamahir]

We want to make classless society.

Yes, that should be the desire of any sensible person. So to you.

 

[Cliftonite]

Well if it doesn't cost too much, then why not make it free and make everyone a Brahmin?

What even do Brahmins do?

Wash their houses like an OCD after a Dalit enters it? Forego onions and garlic? Burn incense all day long?

Overhyped weirdos.

 

[achhu]

What even do Brahmins do?

Wash their houses like an OCD after a Dalit enters it? Forego onions and garlic? Burn incense all day long?

Overhyped weirdos.

We are not living in 1400 years old dark age, we are living in modern age .

 

[SrNair]

Shashi Tharoor mother was a christian.


Why not ? Hypocrisy is the norm, not the exception.

Here is Sana Khan from Big Boss.

Shashi Tharoor's father is Chandran Tharoor and mothers name is Sulekha Menon.
He has two sisters also.

The guy is directly connected to Tharoor Swaroopam in Palakkad

 

[Bilal9]

Not ten really but I agree that progressive activism and thought among Muslims in the current world has reduced a lot. There used to be entire, socialist Muslim-majority countries earlier.

But things are not beyond recovery even if there is a single Muslim socialist. In India there are youth Muslim socialists like Shehla Rashid and older ones like MY Tarigami. This ties in with a resurgence of socialist thought in India. In Pakistan there is the "Leather jacket girl" Arooj Aurangzeb and others like the music band Laal. Even Malala Yousafzai. In Afghanistan there is the SPA ( Solidarity Party of Afghanistan ) despite the presence of the Taliban. In Bangladesh I don't know ( I will call @Bilal9 and @DalalErMaNodi ) but I do know that there is some people-to-people contact with North Korea. In Syria the socialist Baath movement that forms the government has been fighting the nine-year-old international war within its territory to retain the Baath leadership of the country. The Iraqi Baathists too will be fighting to regain Baathist leadership of Iraq or at least to retain an influential position. In Palestine there is the PLO. In Libya there still are the Greens who want to bring back the Jamahiriya. Even in far-flung Venezuela some of the Muslim emigrants got into leftist activism. I quote about a Muslim minister, Tareck El Aissami, in Venezuela's socialist government :

There are socialists in Turkey and various parts of Africa ( other than Libya ). I am sure there are Muslim socialists in Russia too. In Europe too there will be, like the writer and historian Tariq Ali.



Well, these types are outwardly Muslim, fanatically doing the prayer and ritual part and the dress code, but are not very intellectual, are not very aware of the various progressives laws in Islam regarding things that make Islam Islam. Things like laws of inheritance and marriage. I don't consider such ones as truly Muslim. They are embarrassments. They form the agents and saboteurs who do the work of Western intelligence agencies who want to subvert Muslim-majority progressive countries or movements.

Islam itself is an egalitarian religion, I'd argue far more so than most other religions, and at even keel with Buddhist principles.

The reasons for Muslims conversions from Buddhism (and Hinduism, not many in Bangladesh though were left in Hindusim by that time) in Bangladesh was because of the role model examples of sufi saints like Hazrat Shah Jalal, Hazrat Shah Makhdum and Hazrat Shah Paran et al. Sufism in Bangladesh took hold because of the peaceful and often egalitarian nature which appealed to adherents of Hinduism and Buddhism locally, who saw it as a better way of life than the classist and sectarian oppression of the Brahmin and ruling classes.

When I go to Jumma on Friday, I participate in prayer with those who are and are not fortunate with wealth around me. There is absolutely no classism or caste system in a mosque. All are equal in the eyes of Allah.

The devolution and decline of traditional Hinduism can be attributed to this single fact, while Hinduism does contain many other enlightening humanist principles.

Wasn't there some Dalit President guy (and family) who was barred from entering some temple in India?

That is absolutely shameful.

When you let some priest guy decide who is acceptable to enter in the house of God (or Gods in this case), then that is where the rot starts...

 

[Joe Shearer]

Damn we have a 70 year old uncle..

Never knew that ...

Now bow....

who were mukti bahini recruits
muslims or hindu

The vast majority were Muslim. @fitpOsitive was venting standard propaganda nonsense spouted by those who refuse to acknowledge the toxic effect of west Pakistani arrogance in the period between 47 and 71; it is automatic, and I doubt that these remarks are thought through before being uttered.

ohhh why is it so that whenever there is division between the nations, one religion is common reason for the division.

That is not very good, in terms of accuracy, either. It certainly does not apply, on the larger scale, to the partition of India; it does not apply, on the smaller scale, to the partition of Bengal.

JS does give the muslims a pass every single time while saving all of his sharp wit and expertise in angrezi to have a go at the Hindutva people, that much is true.

That does not mean that I do not see the blemishes in the positions that some Muslims have taken. The Tableegh-e-Jamayet is an example. I deplore the horribly one-sided denunciation that they suffered for the Corona outbreak in Delhi, and for its spread elsewhere. On the other hand, having been subjected to very stressful situations at their hands while working near Saharanpur, even during an aid mission to the refugee camps near Muzaffarpur, I think that they are an organisation that should be banned. Emphatically not for the trumped-up charges against them of spreading the virus, but because of their deviation from their original task of 'setting right' inappropriate practices among Muslims (inappropriate by their definition) to one of seeking to convert completely unwilling and reluctant bystanders who happen to be of some other faith.

The point is, is this the forum for that point of view? No, not at all. On the other hand, it is, to me, the forum for the criticism of the Hindutva brigade.

I don't get why Hindus want Muslims to be equally chastised. Muslims are 15% of India's population and no way comparable to Hindus in power. The state, police and judiciary is allied with Hindus. I see this all the time as an excuse thrown for the Gujarat riots, the Delhi riots, the Nellie massacre.

Well said.

Hindus didn't get the, Hindu republic of India, unlike their counterparts.
So stop your bias from Islamic republic of Pakistan.

Sounds good, but totally illogical.

Not Hindus, but the composite mass of people who did not want to divide into two or more theocracies, decided that India should not be a Hindu republic. It was not a decision thrust down the throats of Hindus; they were a majority even then, and they had enough influence to partition Bengal. So what the Islamic Republic of Pakistan did, or did not, and what citizens of that theocratic state think or do today should have nothing to do with what citizens of the secular republic of India think or do.

It was depressing to see the very shallow thinking that allowed this post to slip past.

If @Joe Shearer criticizes Muslims and Islam like he does Hindus & Hinduism, he would have been beheaded a long time ago.

Really?

By whom?

Not very many beheadings by Muslims of Hindus, or hasn't that been noticed? The knife seems to have been in other hands.

Another cheap example of claimed victimhood by a killer lunatic fringe, accusing its victims of its own crimes.

Well if it doesn't cost too much, then why not make it free and make everyone a Brahmin?

Heh.

A very great religious teacher, who is mentioned in the same breath as Sankaracharya, tried precisely that a millennium ago. His efforts, encased in amber, live on to this day.

Ironic, that.

 

[Sharma Ji]

That does not mean that I do not see the blemishes in the positions that some Muslims have taken. The Tableegh-e-Jamayet is an example. I deplore the horribly one-sided denunciation that they suffered for the Corona outbreak in Delhi, and for its spread elsewhere. On the other hand, having been subjected to very stressful situations at their hands while working near Saharanpur, even during an aid mission to the refugee camps near Muzaffarpur, I think that they are an organization that should be banned. Emphatically not for the trumped-up charges against them of spreading the virus, but because of their deviation from their original task of 'setting right' inappropriate practices among Muslims (inappropriate by their definition) to one of seeking to convert completely unwilling and reluctant bystanders who happen to be of some other faith.

The point is, is this the forum for that point of view? No, not at all. On the other hand, it is, to me, the forum for the criticism of the Hindutva brigade.

Interesting, and when were you in Sarahanpur.. what crisis ? 14/17 ? earlier ?

Agree though, shouldn't have gone after them like certain sections of the media did with the covid thing.

Also agree about what they are as an organization, they're a radical religious fanatic group of loons, not helping matters in any way. They should be banned.

"to one of seeking to convert completely unwilling and reluctant bystanders who happen to be of some other faith."

YES !! this expansionist thing is exactly what is fueling the right wing backlash, it's what feeds the monster.

"The point is, is this the forum for that point of view? No, not at all. On the other hand, it is, to me, the forum for the criticism of the Hindutva brigade."

This was greatly disappointing to read^

Why should we not at least give constructive dialogue a chance between real Indians and Pakistanis (random concerned citizens) a chance at conversing without it devolving into a total $h1T fest like it almost invariably does here ?

As a strong proponent of and believer in free speech (yes, that includes offensive speech), got ZERO problems listening to anti BJP/Modi/RSS/Right Wing or whatever people, Pakistani Sunni Muslims or fellow Indian dissenters, or otherwise, and their point of view.. it is why I am here.

"it is, to me, the forum for the criticism of the Hindutva brigade"

how do you not see how virtually nobody here cares to make the distinction between Hindu and Hindutva ?

but frankly, and to be perfectly fair, there shouldn't be a distinction anyway.

"Hindutva" is a very ill defined term, it's the new "Zionist"

I'm about as far as you can go from ethno and religio-centrecism as one can go but still a "hindutva-wadi" as far as some are concerned.

Don't make this your playground for a fun Turkey shoot against your own lot, Joe Saab. Why would you do such a thing ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Don't make this your playground for a fun Turkey shoot against your own lot, Joe Saab. Why would you do such a thing ?

For lack of an alternative forum.

Have you ever gone into an 'Indian' forum?

Now, however, I have an alternative that has become more and more appealing every single day, constrained by my steadily reducing time spent on line.

 

[Sharma Ji]

For lack of an alternative forum.

zing !!

nice 1, cover drive.. went like a tracer bullet.

Have you ever gone into an 'Indian' forum?

briefly, yes

not very nice places, those, sadly

(grammar sahi hai ?)

Now, however, I have an alternative that has become more and more appealing every single day, constrained by my steadily reducing time spent on line.

where ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

where ?

Answering this would, in my humble opinion, be unethical. It would not do to promote what might be perceived as a rival forum on another, on this forum. I have been given such hospitality, such consideration here that anything that seems deleterious to its interests is unthinkable.

That place does not have the maturity and completeness of this very well-matured forum, but there is more honesty.

Let us leave it at that.

Kashmir is now at par with all indian states , now citizens from all over india can settle in Kashmir , can get service in Kashmir , can do business in kashmir , can make a house in Kashmir.

Many of which are not possible in those non-Indian states of Himachal Pradesh, Uttaranchal, Arunachal Pradesh and several others.

The only difference between this recently-corrected state and those others is a single difference. One that should never have been a desideratum in a secular state.

Ironic.

itna outha mat inki...Log sach mein tujhe indian maane gaein

Thank you also.