India’s Covert Action Capabilities Stymied By CIA, MI6 Pressure

[Blue Marlin]

Maximum MI 6 can do in India is with some NGO and that window is already forced closed by GoI .
Agreed MI 6/GHCQ are notorious agencies then what would you say about NSA of USA ?
They could tap German Chancellors phone and could check the mail account of Frecnh officials including Prez .God knows
the level of infiltration of NSA in UK .

Indianess are also notorious in defending our secrets .If things goes like now we will also show same thing in offensive purposes also .You know current GoI and working culture is like that .
Indians are notorious in defence because even if the US moved heaven and earth they still didnt know anything credible about India's nuke secret .They also admitted they know Chinese better than us .

im not questioning the capabilities of the usa. they have done remarkable things no doubt.
Indian intelligence however is good for what its there for. defence/safeguarding when it goes to covert opps they are useless. whilst for example the isi is the best of both. they were able to get the latest Indian military deployments and convey them to Pakistan for them to counter it. can you imagine in a war how useful that would be? and nuclear weapons safeguarding and naughty militants were dealt with. im not saying raw is a bad intelligences, no. its just that they are not in the situation that Pakistan is in with terrorism and Afghanistan.

Don't you love a teary Indian?

can you elaborate that please?

 

[SrNair]

im not questioning the capabilities of the usa. they have done remarkable things no doubt.
Indian intelligence however is good for what its there for. defence/safeguarding when it goes to covert opps they are useless. whilst for example the isi is the best of both. they were able to get the latest Indian military deployments and convey them to Pakistan for them to counter it. can you imagine in a war how useful that would be? and nuclear weapons safeguarding and naughty militants were dealt with. im not saying raw is a bad intelligences, no. its just that they are not in the situation that Pakistan is in with terrorism and Afghanistan.


can you elaborate that please?

Indian agencies can do covert opps if we want.
Infact we did that successfully several times.Bright example was 1971 where your UK tried to help Pakistan but failed.
Another one was during Rajiv times .We created two Covert groups .One for sabotage and next for defence .Success was excellent so that we could successfull neutralize entire ISI assets.
One moronic policy of peace pigeon PM IK Gujral that dismantled our base.
Now we are again tries for develop now with advanced tech support like satellites .
During Indira times we could even infiltrate their top nuke facility.
Again another moronic policy of next PM Desai fucked up all that efforts.

How do you know that we dont know about Pak facilities?
You are wrong my friend .We have advanced satellite reconnaissance facilities like RISAT series so HUMINT is less in such case.
ISI only so called covert achievements is cross border terrorism . We dont need such tactics.
But if you believe the conspiracy theories of Pak PDF members about our consulatesin Afghanistan and terrorists attacks in Pakistan .We are far better than you can imagine .
ISI is not the subject in here .
I am talking about western agencies vs Indian .
MI6 cis not prominent but CIA /NSA even tried for tap our scientists phone .

 

[Blue Marlin]

Indian agencies can do covert opps if we want.
Infact we did that successfully several times.Bright example was 1971 where your UK tried to help Pakistan but failed.
Another one was during Rajiv times .We created two Covert groups .One for sabotage and next for defence .Success was excellent so that we could successfull neutralize entire ISI assets.
One moronic policy of peace pigeon PM IK Gujral that dismantled our base.
Now we are again tries for develop now with advanced tech support like satellites .
During Indira times we could even infiltrate their top nuke facility.
Again another moronic policy of next PM Desai fucked up all that efforts.

How do you know that we dont know about Pak facilities?
You are wrong my friend .We have advanced satellite reconnaissance facilities like RISAT series so HUMINT is less in such case.
ISI only so called covert achievements is cross border terrorism . We dont need such tactics.
But if you believe the conspiracy theories of Pak PDF members about our consulatesin Afghanistan and terrorists attacks in Pakistan .We are far better than you can imagine .
ISI is not the subject in here .
I am talking about western agencies vs Indian .
MI6 cis not prominent but CIA /NSA even tried for tap our scientists phone .

yes i am aware of the 71 when east pakistan split into become bangladesh.
i dont know too much on indian politics.
i know indian operatives acting as tea boys were operating near where nuclear engineers were (in pakistan) and were caught, there's somthing you never knew
western agencies are at a level that india can only dream of (no offence)

 

[mkb95]

Don't you love a teary Indian?

you guys give us that pleasure every day.

 

[SrNair]

yes i am aware of the 71 when east pakistan split into become bangladesh.
i dont know too much on indian politics.
i know indian operatives acting as tea boys were operating near where nuclear engineers were (in pakistan) and were caught, there's somthing you never knew
western agencies are at a level that india can only dream of (no offence)

Politics
Politics and intel ops are very different .All those things can be found out from internet written by the legendary Indian spy B Raman.
Tea boys ??
Very low level of knowledge .

We have had a mole in Kahuta .That mole was exposed by the reckless act of the PM Desai .He revealed directly that to Pak military ruler .We had been in a near completion of most successful ops .But thanks to the moron Desai .It was busted . Kahuta is still remains as a blackhole after that
Dont know anything about current GoI efforts .

Not Western But US /CIA .(no offense )
They will decide the present and future of EU and other western nations
There is another one that is perhaps the most successful and brilliant agency in the world,Israel's Mossad .They are very secretive and very successful .
Again Western 'level' still struggling in dark about India's nuke program (even that CIA ).So we are very best in defense ( because that is a necessity for our national security )
Tommorrow ,if we want an offenive purpose for our national security we will look in to it .




.

 

[Peshwa]

I take this entire article with a bucket of salt!

Indian agencies are not consulting the CIA, MI-6 or mossad about covert ops....esp those concerning Pakistan...
No agency will reveal its "covert" ops to a foreign agency (unless its a joint op) lest its lose its "covert" title and strategic significance..

India pulled off supporting the Mukti Bahini right under the noses of the then Pak ally, the USA...we didnt give a shit then, and we most certainly wont now..

The incompetence (if any) of the agency is all organic and bureaucracy driven...lets not blame the CIA or MI-6 for our failures.

Lastly, I personally wouldn't discount RAW as much as this article does..yes, RAW does not operate on a global scale like say the CIA, but we got a good network in South Asia..which is and should be our top priority! We dont need to stir up trouble in "other" countries for shits and giggles..

 

[illusion8]

im not questioning the capabilities of the usa. they have done remarkable things no doubt.
Indian intelligence however is good for what its there for. defence/safeguarding when it goes to covert opps they are useless. whilst for example the isi is the best of both. they were able to get the latest Indian military deployments and convey them to Pakistan for them to counter it. can you imagine in a war how useful that would be? and nuclear weapons safeguarding and naughty militants were dealt with. im not saying raw is a bad intelligences, no. its just that they are not in the situation that Pakistan is in with terrorism and Afghanistan.


can you elaborate that please?

Not surprising..

ISI is like a parallel government not accountable to any civilian entity..They have their own sources of income, their own objectives their own proxies and operatives ..so yes, they have far more operational freedom compared to bureaucratic controlled RAW..With severe limitations and high level of restrictions.

If it wasn't for that...then RAW could demonstrate far greater reach and capabilities compared to now.

IB too is riddled by too many controls...and get openly criticised, dragged to court and fall prey to the whims and fancies of political leaders..

I take this entire article with a bucket of salt!

Indian agencies are not consulting the CIA, MI-6 or mossad about covert ops....esp those concerning Pakistan...
No agency will reveal its "covert" ops to a foreign agency (unless its a joint op) lest its lose its "covert" title and strategic significance..

India pulled off supporting the Mukti Bahini right under the noses of the then Pak ally, the USA...we didnt give a shit then, and we most certainly wont now..

The incompetence (if any) of the agency is all organic and bureaucracy driven...lets not blame the CIA or MI-6 for our failures.

Lastly, I personally wouldn't discount RAW as much as this article does..yes, RAW does not operate on a global scale like say the CIA, but we got a good network in South Asia..which is and should be our top priority! We dont need to stir up trouble in "other" countries for shits and giggles..

Anti terrorism intelligence sharing has tied in multiple agencies together, even the ISIS cells busted in India last week had intelligence input from CIA . .so, I wouldn't for one dismiss CIA asking RAW to lay low.

 

[Peshwa]

Anti terrorism intelligence sharing has tied in multiple agencies together, even the ISIS cells busted in India last week had intelligence input from CIA . .so, I wouldn't for one dismiss CIA asking RAW to lay low.

I did make an exception for joint operations in my post...Common threats of course require intelligence sharing...

Unilateral operations aimed at India specific threats, I have my doubts on whether India discusses such ops with the CIA. ...I could be wrong, but I personally don't buy it..

 

[illusion8]

yes i am aware of the 71 when east pakistan split into become bangladesh.
i dont know too much on indian politics.
i know indian operatives acting as tea boys were operating near where nuclear engineers were (in pakistan) and were caught, there's somthing you never knew
western agencies are at a level that india can only dream of (no offence)

You don't know much about intelligence agencies then...It is not unusual for isi creating stories so that gullible pakistanis (both inland...and especially the one's abroad) keep worshiping the god like capabilities of isi.

Direct RAW operatives cannot really be apprehended by any country. ..I am sure you even believe the stories of pakistani media stories of apprehending RAW operatives regularly....It doesn't work like that..

I did make an exception for joint operations in my post...Common threats of course require intelligence sharing...

Unilateral operations aimed at India specific threats, I have my doubts on whether India discusses such ops with the CIA. ...I could be wrong, but I personally don't buy it..

I respect that...what the article suggests could be a real possibility too.

 

[desimorty]

Year of occurrence misplaced. Should have placed it more accurately.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india’s-...ied-by-cia-mi6-pressure.419594/#ixzz3yZKHY2tq

Well atleast RAW brings democracy. not the taliban. That being said, KGB really hate Pakistan. I'm suprised not Pakistani blames them for terrorists attacks. The KGB have motive, sometimes more so than RAW. Ontop of this India, Afghanistan, Iran are second homes to KGB.

 

[illusion8]

I did make an exception for joint operations in my post...Common threats of course require intelligence sharing...

Unilateral operations aimed at India specific threats, I have my doubts on whether India discusses such ops with the CIA. ...I could be wrong, but I personally don't buy it..

I will respect that..though what the article points out could also be true and it's not difficult to believe. CIA has a huge network in Pakistan. .Their embassies there are mini cities that can hold tens of thousands of people at any given time..so they, restricting another agency to either hide their operations or to become a hindrance isn't out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Peshwa]

I will respect that..though what the article points out could also be true and it's not difficult to believe. CIA has a huge network in Pakistan. .Their embassies there are mini cities that can hold tens of thousands of people at any given time..so they, restricting another agency to either hide their operations or to become a hindrance isn't out of the realm of possibility.

CIA has been playing twister with Pakistani for about 5 decades now...
They had established a CIA network well since the 80s soviet invasion of Afg...All this while, India was in the soviet camp and extremely vary of the US and its aims...
From my understanding, it take decades to build an effective network to be able to influence/counter a country within their own land...
The US is not there yet...

Not saying its not possible, but given our decades old suspicion of the US, I dont see it being so where the US can influence Indian wrt. unilateral covert ops.

The only way I can see this happening is because RAW comes under the ambit of the govt. and not the Indian military...hence some of our netas with peanut sized "kapoore" may have succumbed to US pressure to lay off harming say Pak...but i certainly dont believe that detailed info on these projects is shared with the US...the mechanism and relationship doesnt exist.

 

[illusion8]

CIA has been playing twister with Pakistani for about 5 decades now...
They had established a CIA network well since the 80s soviet invasion of Afg...All this while, India was in the soviet camp and extremely vary of the US and its aims...
From my understanding, it take decades to build an effective network to be able to influence/counter a country within their own land...
The US is not there yet...

Not saying its not possible, but given our decades old suspicion of the US, I dont see it being so where the US can influence Indian wrt. unilateral covert ops.

The only way I can see this happening is because RAW comes under the ambit of the govt. and not the Indian military...hence some of our netas with peanut sized "kapoore" may have succumbed to US pressure to lay off harming say Pak...but i certainly dont believe that detailed info on these projects is shared with the US...the mechanism and relationship doesnt exist.

No, it does...intelligence officers visit other countries for months together foe training where they interact with associate agencies..There are a bunch of like minded countries that have established a pool where they share Intel, op details, information and ask other established networks in certain countries for assistance in monitoring, recon, nabbing etc.

The joint statements of working together against terrorism actually means something..

Intel agencies have established networks in some countries and are weaker in others..This is where the collaboration helps..

We wouldn't have bagged some wanted terrorists from gulf countries without collaborative assistance. A lot of information passes through this collaborative network..though there are limitations on sharing especially when it comes to covert actions...terrorism related info is a free for all info and any Intel agency from the group could dip into the data pool or ask for assistance.

Other examples of such networks are gulf Arab countries or the nato countries where Intel is shared routinely.

 

[Peshwa]

No, it does...intelligence officers visit other countries for months together foe training where they interact with associate agencies..There are a bunch of like minded countries that have established a pool where they share Intel, op details, information and ask other established networks in certain countries for assistance in monitoring, recon, nabbing etc.

The joint statements of working together against terrorism actually means something..

Intel agencies have established networks in some countries and are weaker in others..This is where the collaboration helps..

We wouldn't have bagged some wanted terrorists from gulf countries without collaborative assistance. A lot of information passes through this collaborative network..though there are limitations on sharing especially when it comes to covert actions...terrorism related info is a free for all info and any Intel agency from the group could dip into the data pool or ask for assistance.

Other examples of such networks are gulf Arab countries or the nato countries where Intel is shared routinely.

Correct me if I'm wrong..but I don't believe india and the US have conducted any joint ops..
This is what I was referring to in my previous post (ref: highlighted) when I meant that the mechanism/relationship doesn't exist.

Again, do you seriously believe that say hypothetically, RAW were raising a mulkti bahini type movement, that we would let the CIA get a wind of this? esp given that the CIA is furiously protective of its strategic interests?

 

[illusion8]

Correct me if I'm wrong..but I don't believe india and the US have conducted any joint ops..
This is what I was referring to in my previous post (ref: highlighted) when I meant that the mechanism/relationship doesn't exist.

Again, do you seriously believe that say hypothetically, RAW were raising a mulkti bahini type movement, that we would let the CIA get a wind of this? esp given that the CIA is furiously protective of its strategic interests?

Joint ops..I don't think so?..but joint covert actions. .definitely yes..change of regime in our neighborhood recently that was playing the Chinese against us was a joint covert action...For example. I was referring to the collaborations that happen between strategically aligned intelligence agencies.

That's what the article reiterates..The CIA MI6 prevents any covert ops by RAW..and it could be a possibility.

The intel sharing - for eg..Chinese sub sightings in the Indian ocean was shared by the USN to us.