Indians look into Russia’s fifth-generation jet fighter

[gubbi]

Gubbi, if you take a look at our surroundings, I think an overkill is what we exactly need and to use that overkill a couple of times so that our enemies are alarmed too about what we can do in future rather than the typical underestimating of enemy that Nehru did in 1962, costing us Aksai Chin.

Of course. Thats the whole point, so that we may NOT have to use that weapon ever.

Strike Fear!

 

[Devianz]

Guys, where do you think is going to be the internal carriage for weapons? According to reports now, there's going to be 8 internal points and 8 external. From the design, do you think they will have a rotating feed for missiles? Or will it be conventional like Raptor's internal bays?

Red marked area between the engines (main bay) and between engine and wing joint (for wvraam). Launcher would be conventional and not rotatory like Tu-22M or Tu-160.

 

[gubbi]

Red marked area between the engines (main bay) and between engine and wing joint (for wvraam). Launcher would be conventional and not rotatory like Tu-22M or Tu-160.

I dont think that the marked area between wing and engine - for wvraam is actually a bay. IMHO that houses an actuator for the LERXs, and may be for the undercarriage trapdoors, because I dont see any actuators for those in any other place. I may be wrong, but a bay in that area doesnt make sense, except for an LERX actuator. Check the flap actuators under the wings.

Any aircraft designers can comment? I asked an engineer friend (works for Dassault) and he was of a similar opinion as mine.

Planeman's pic may be wrong.

 

[Devianz]

I dont think that the marked area between wing and engine - for wvraam is actually a bay. IMHO that houses an actuator for the LERXs, and may be for the undercarriage trapdoors, because I dont see any actuators for those in any other place. I may be wrong, but a bay in that area doesnt make sense, except for an LERX actuator. Check the flap actuators under the wings.

Any aircraft designers can comment? I asked an engineer friend (works for Dassault) and he was of a similar opinion as mine.

Planeman's pic may be wrong.

Don't think the actuators would need that big a housing. The LERX's maybe using a system similar to the canards. Anyways I have read reports on keypub that the manufactures have suggested that it does have a separate bay for wvraams and thats the only probable position for a bay. Its still speculation only.. some even suggest it may be space reserved for ECMs or RWR suites.

 

[gubbi]

Don't think the actuators would need that big a housing. The LERX's maybe using a system similar to the canards.

Agreed. But have you seen how the canards are attached to the fuselage? Pardon my choice of words (I am not an engineer), the pivot or the hinge for canards is always in the middle of the movable surface. Check out the following pics and see how the canards are attached to the fuselage
Typhoon:

J-10

Su-30MKI

Rafale

Observe how the canards are attached to the fuselage?

Now check out how the LERXs on PAK-FA are attached:

The LERX are attached to the front edge of the wing, the pivot/hinge joint is at the rear of LERX. If it was attached tothe fuselage, that would require a very powerful motor to overcome the airflow pressures, while an actuator in the area mentioned would do the work in a far more efficient manner!
Even our naval LCA has similar LERXs and though I cannot find a clear picture, I believe that the actuators for these are in a similar position as on PAK-FA.

Anyways I have read reports on keypub that the manufactures have suggested that it does have a separate bay for wvraams and thats the only probable position for a bay. Its still speculation only.. some even suggest it may be space reserved for ECMs or RWR suites.

Can you post the source? I too remember reading it somewhere, but logically speaking a bay in that area doesnt make sense. Again, I could be very wrong.

 

[Dash]

Gubbi, if you take a look at our surroundings, I think an overkill is what we exactly need and to use that overkill a couple of times so that our enemies are alarmed too about what we can do in future rather than the typical underestimating of enemy that Nehru did in 1962, costing us Aksai Chin.

Teshering22 -

Welcome back..

I dont think Brahmos is an over kill. Brahmos is less valunerable to interception but not impossible. It has less reaction time but It can be intercepted too.
I dont think its an over kill but yes its diffecult to intercept.

 

[Devianz]

Agreed. But have you seen how the canards are attached to the fuselage? Pardon my choice of words (I am not an engineer), the pivot or the hinge for canards is always in the middle of the movable surface. Check out the following pics and see how the canards are attached to the fuselage

Yes... Its similar to how the tail works.

Can you post the source? I too remember reading it somewhere, but logically speaking a bay in that area doesnt make sense. Again, I could be very wrong.

Sorry bro, can't find a source. We have to wait till they release more info on it.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Hi Kinetic -

Long time. Hope u r doing good.

So, do u think they can carry barhmos internally???, I think they really have to reduce the size for that.

In my opinion i dont think the Brahmos will be carried by PAKFA. You have to understand 5th Generation Fighters are designed for one thing only, and that is Air Superiority. PAKFA, F35 and F22 might be able to carry A2G munitions but their primary job is to ensure that they take out the enemy jets as quickly as they can.

In today's warfare, Strike Package is the name of the game. Thus most likely PAKFA will be accompanied by other Aircrafts that can carry the Brahmos. The PAKFA heads into battle first and takes out the opposing aircrafts, once this is accomplished the other aircrafts come in and deliver the load. This is why countries are spending billions of dollars, low RCS to avoid radar detection and once the enemy picks up your presence its already too late for them. I think Brahmos will more likely be carried by either the MKI or M2K, makes more sense if they are carrying it.

 

[praveen007]

^^^ actually ur right. i remember reading that pakfa can carry upto 3 bhramos only on its external paylon + 8 aoa missle

 

[anathema]

In my opinion i dont think the Brahmos will be carried by PAKFA. You have to understand 5th Generation Fighters are designed for one thing only, and that is Air Superiority. PAKFA, F35 and F22 might be able to carry A2G munitions but their primary job is to ensure that they take out the enemy jets as quickly as they can.

In today's warfare, Strike Package is the name of the game. Thus most likely PAKFA will be accompanied by other Aircrafts that can carry the Brahmos. The PAKFA heads into battle first and takes out the opposing aircrafts, once this is accomplished the other aircrafts come in and deliver the load. This is why countries are spending billions of dollars, low RCS to avoid radar detection and once the enemy picks up your presence its already too late for them. I think Brahmos will more likely be carried by either the MKI or M2K, makes more sense if they are carrying it.

You are correct yet not correct entirely. You have to understand the Russian meaning of air superiority and the concept of 5 gen fighters for them. Russians have always believed in quantity has its own quality principle (incidentally India and China also believes in the same).

Having said that you will notice there are some compromises that Russians have made on PAKFA namely absence of rear stealth (this can very well change). Frontal LO is considerable on PAKFA and this will enable PAKFA to succesfully ingress into enemy areas but they will not be immune from detection as compared to a Raptor and counter measures taken by enemy air defence.

Russians are planning to induct PAK FA in massive numbers so as to overcome this disadvantage. Once Air superiority is established PAKFA can be used in a conservative role of bomb truck due to external pylons available to them. This is purely due to the fact that gone are the days where you used to have a dedicated fighter playing dedicated role; if a fighter can be optimised to play multiple roles then sure why not. Air superiority is PAKFA's primary mission but thats not its only mission.

 

[Canaan]

what is the price tag of such a beauty

 

[praveen007]

currently speculated to b about 1/3 of f-22 raptor or about 110 mil each

 

[STD]

Gotta say,its the sexiest jet fighter till now and also the most advanced ever!

 

[Tshering22]

Teshering22 -

Welcome back..

I dont think Brahmos is an over kill. Brahmos is less valunerable to interception but not impossible. It has less reaction time but It can be intercepted too.
I dont think its an over kill but yes its diffecult to intercept.

Thanks for the welcome. But we are talking about BrahMos in our neighbourhood; not compared to NATO. I definitely think that BraMos-II would be a real overkill if we station them in our Western borders.

BraMos-II would be perfect if something is done about extending its range and a bit of payload capacity. Both are less to cover large swathes of territory we might need to in case of a big war. 290 Km into Tibet is nothing.

 

[Dash]

Thanks for the welcome. But we are talking about BrahMos in our neighbourhood; not compared to NATO. I definitely think that BraMos-II would be a real overkill if we station them in our Western borders.

BraMos-II would be perfect if something is done about extending its range and a bit of payload capacity. Both are less to cover large swathes of territory we might need to in case of a big war. 290 Km into Tibet is nothing.

Thanks for the welcome. But we are talking about BrahMos in our neighbourhood; not compared to NATO. I definitely think that BraMos-II would be a real overkill if we station them in our Western borders

To be honest, there are anti aircraft guns out there with our neighbours which are designed to target Cruise missiles. But thats again luck. But yes its deadly and no none of our neighbour have it.

BraMos-II would be perfect if something is done about extending its range and a bit of payload capacity.

you never know, but yes I can see the spin offs like Shaurya and Nirbhay, with Shauyrya being a hypersonic quasi ballistic missile. So you might see Shaurya in action and complementing Brahmos.

and by the way, Nirbhay is said to have abilities to loiter, designate targets and acquire the most valuable target.
Now the equation will be simple, when target is designated, Nirbhay will go after the not so valuable ones and brahmos being hypersonic can reach the distance much quicker, will go after the valuable target....

interesting isnt it?