Indians got India,not Hindus- MJ Akbar

[jaiind]

In reality

 

[Koovie]

Not True for all Indians.

Most Hindus will not allow a Muslim to rent an Apartment or buy a House next door to them.

And from where did you get that most Hindus dont want Muslims to rent their apartments?

Sure there are some fukcheads here like in any other society.

But contrary to your nation, we are a secular nation!

 

[Abingdonboy]

And yet,idiots try to establish Islam is hurt in India! What does these kilings and achievements have to do with religion anyway? Its upto the individual afterall,you be a good man,you'll prosper no matter whether you read a quran or gita. Its as simple as that.

AS you rightly point out, such people are idiots!

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

When I read your first sentence, I wanted to say I did not mean you, but other Pakistanis who have been trying to paint a wrong picture about Indian muslims. But then you went on to do the same thing.

How many Indians are there on PDF, and how many of them have bigoted religious ideas like bronxbul? Reflect on that for a moment, and now extrapolate the ratio to the whole of India.

OTOH, how many Pakistanis on PDF believe their country is specially for muslims?

Bhai Zakir was a multiple id troll who also posted as 'david james', and got perma banned. He may not even be muslim, and you think that he posted anti-pakistan stuff to get approval from Indians. Now ask yourself this - how many non muslim Indian members here post something anti-Pakistani? Do you draw the same conclusion about them, that they are doing so only to get approval from others? What makes you draw a different conclusion about a poster's intention, based on the religion you think he follows? Same data, different conclusions? Maybe the problem is within yourself, that you assume that Indian muslims have a different intention all the time from Indian non muslims? The prejudice is within you, not us.

see @janon problem with you is that you think everyone in India feel and think same as you do which is not correct. You can speak for yourself and i can speak about my experience and what i felt during my interaction with some Indian on PDF or Indian def forum.There were bigots as well as sane Hindus/Indians. I never said all Indian Hindus are bigots and treat Muslim as outsider or dalits. Your opinion is based on your perception and my opinion is based on my perception..neither you nor i can know the feelings of every single Indian hindu about Muslims or say Indian muslim

 

[Koovie]

Listen Kid, It may be true in your area. If I am not mistaken you are in Kerala, where they treat their Muslim compatriots in a much kinder way.

Please go to North India and declare that you are a Muslim and show me if you can buy Property in Dehli or Bombay in a Hindu infested area. I challenge you on that.

I know enough old school mates who run their businesses in Mumbai from their high end apartments.... just to give you one example.

Funny how you are trying to teach us how to be more tolerant to other religions....

A few examples from the political scene:
We have a Sikh as PM
A Hindu as President
A Muslim as Foreign Affairs Minister
An atheist as Defence Minister
A Christian as leader of the national party
A Hindu as HM
etc etc etc

And since we are on a defence forum:

During the 1971 war, the Indian army was led by a Jew and a Parsi

In 1965 the bravest act of bravery was done by a Muslim and he received the highest gallantry award

We had Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Christians and Parsis as Army, Navy and IAF chiefs....

During the oath taking ceremony soldiers can swear their oath to representatives of all religions!

Every shrine in the IA has symbols from every major world religion

and so on and so on...... I could go one for the rest of the night!


And meanwhile people get sentenced to death for blasphemy in the year 2014 (!) in countries not too far from ours.

 

[acetophenol]

Guys,I am calling it a day,got to get some sleep! I want to thank several posters here,but I am digitally handicapped,as I can't find a thanks button from my cell:-[

 

[Sam Manekshaw]

see @janon problem with you is that you think everyone in India feel and think same as you do which is not correct. You can speak for yourself and i can speak about my experience and what i felt during my interaction with some Indian on PDF or Indian def forum.There were bigots as well as sane Hindus/Indians. I never said all Indian Hindus are bigots and treat Muslim as outsider or dalits. Your opinion is based on your perception and my opinion is based on my perception..neither you nor i can know the feelings of every single Indian hindu about Muslims or say Indian muslim

So y you highlighting only rational ppl?which r less.

 

[janon]

see @janon problem with you is that you think everyone in India feel and think same as you do which is not correct. You can speak for yourself and i can speak about my experience and what i felt during my interaction with some Indian on PDF or Indian def forum.There were bigots as well as sane hindus. I never said all Indian Hindus are bigots and treat Muslim as outsider or dalits. Your opinions is based on your perception and my opinion is based on my perception..neither you nor i can know the feelings of every single Indian hindu about Muslims or say Indian muslim

That much is simplistically true, and I myself acknowledged that we have religious bigots in the country. Of course I know that everybody doesn't think the way I do - but the point is that the vast majority of Indians don't think how Pakistanis allege we do.

You say you are speaking from your interaction with Indians on PDF, and since I have also observed these interactions, I have to point it out to you that the vast majority of Indian members are secular and do not want any reigion given special treatment. Only a handful of Indian members here are religious bigots - I would guess the number is in the single digits. (Not counting the multiple ids of one such user.)

So when you judge Indians from your interaction on PDF, do so in a logical manner - analyze what percentage of them are bigots, and what percentage aren't. It is plainly obvious that a crushing majority of Indians on PDF agree with the sentiment expressed in the OP - that India belongs equally to all Indian citizens.

Of course it doesn't mean that every single Indian thinks so - we have a few bigots, as does any other country on earth.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

That much is simplistically true, and I myself acknowledged that we have religious bigots in the country. Of course I know that everybody doesn't think the way I do - but the point is that the vast majority of Indians don't think how Pakistani allege we do.

You say you are speaking from your interaction with Indians on PDF, and since I have also observed these interactions, I have to point it out to you that the vast majority of Indian members are secular and do not want any reigion given special treatment. Only a handful of Indian members here are religious bigots - I would guess the number is in the single digits. (Not counting the multiple ids of one such user.)

So when you judge Indians from your interaction on PDF, do so in a logical manner - analyze what percentage of them are bigots, and what percentage aren't. It is plainly obvious that a crushing majority of Indians on PDF agree with the sentiment expressed in the OP - that India belongs equally to all Indian citizens.

Of course it doesn't mean that every single Indian thinks so - we have a few bigots, as does any other country on earth.

I don't make overall judgement about a group/nation/religion. I judge people individually thatswhy i have good friend from all religion and races. Its not just pdf my friend but i have been on Indian defence forums as well and i have observed the behaviour of some so called educated and nationalist claiming to be atheist..You have not done any survey to make this claim that its vast majority of Hindus who think positive about Indian Muslims . I cannot say it either that vast majority are Anti-Muslims . It all vary person to person. All Hindus dont have same approach towards their religion or country or even their neighbour country and this might be true for Muslims as well. Indian Muslims are told to move Pakistan whenever they say something which a Hindu don't like or consider unpatriotic. Patriotism of Indian Muslims are being judged more often.Indian Hindus can say same things but they will never be given the label of traitor and no one will ask them to leave India and settle somewhere else because of their different views. They may be label as sickular but no one will question their loyalty toward India

 

[janon]

I don't make overall judgement about a group/nation/religion. I judge people individually thatswhy i have good friend from all religion and races. Its not just pdf my friend but i have been on Indian defence forums as well and i have observed the behaviour of some so called educated and nationalist claiming to be atheist..You have not done any survey to make this claim that its vast majority of Hindus who think positive about Indian Muslims . I cannot say it either that vast majority are Anti-Muslims . It all vary person to person. All Hindus dont have same approach towards their religion or country or even their neighbour country and this might be true for Muslims as well. Indian Muslims are told to move Pakistan whenever they say something which a Hindu don't like or consider unpatriotic. Patriotism of Indian Muslims are being judged more often.Indian Hindus can say same things but they will never be given the label of traitor and no one will ask them to leave India and settle somewhere else because of their different views. They may be label as sickular but no one will question their loyalty toward India

Yes, I admit that the issues you mention exist - that muslims are judged harshly when they make an unpatriotic remark, and that they are asked to go to Pakistan, and so on. It is true. But that goes back to what I said, there are religious extremists in the country, and in this day and age, everybody can make themselves heard. (Due to the proliferation of mass media and the internet.) So these issues will persist for a long time to come.

However, my point is that these issues are not unique to India. Arab Americans often hear the sentence "Go back where you came from!" thrown at them, especially since 9/11. Japanese Americans were all put in internment camps during WW2, although most of them were born in the US. On online forums you can read many Britishers wanting non Britons (especially non whites) to go back to "their own countries" (as they say). Even in Scandinavian countries there are people who want muslims deported.

Yes, Indian muslims face such prejudices, no doubt. But note that in India, even the people who ask muslims to go to Pakistan usually do so only when the said muslims indulge in any anti national activity. They don't say the same thing to a hindu who does something anti-national, because of their reasoning that muslims who did not like India should have moved to the country that was created to accomodate such muslims. (It's not my opinion, but that of people who reason in that manner. I am explaining, not justifying.)

So yes, we do have some prejudices like the ones you mentioned, and we do have religious extremists who hate anybody from another religion. But the condition in India is nowhere as bad as what many Pakistanis here allege. No I haven't done a survey of how people think, but I don't have to - there are other ways of knowing the psyche of a large part of the society I live in. Right from school age we are taught to respect diversity, and all our patriotic songs and slogans praise that ideal. Besides, we are such a diverse (religiously, ethnicaly, linguistically) nation anyway, that if we don't respect diversity, we cannot exist.

 

[Mike_Brando]

Lets add some fuel to the fire:Mohammad Hidayatullah

Acting President of India,Vice President of India,Chief Justice of India

Plus let me add another one,a great person from my own home state who was the last C.J.I.

Altamas Kabir,the 39th Chief Justice of India

Zafar Saifullah

cabinet secretary.

Another great Indian Muslim citizen

Dr.Zakir Hussain,co-founder of Jamia Milia Islamia,2nd Vice President of India(1962-1967),1st Muslim President of India(1967-69),a renowned educationalist

 

[queerbait]

That is one pathetic excuse you guys have for every shit happening in your country. We have a billion plus population so every shit is understandable and possible.

Are all muslims terrorists?

 

[Mike_Brando]

Salim Ali

Bird man of India

You forgot to mention,the wizard of the music

A.R.Rehman,1st Indian music director to receive the Academy Award,Composer of the extremely popular patriotic song "Maa tujhe salaam"

 

[cloud_9]

To all my pakistani brothers who feel india is hindu nation.

Why do you want to convince Pakistanis ???

Why do you have a problem if Pakistanis think India is a Hindu nation ???

 

[Kompromat]

He is respected intellectual who practices Islam, and thus represents the subset which is moderate educated muslim views.

Does that make him an authority over the views of 200 million Muslims, or a mere personal opinion?