Indian retaliation: Australian man stabbed by Indians, Australian's car torched

[Nemesis]

Deemed acceptable? I think we may be looking at the same coin from different sides. In Australia you dont try to deem if an article is acceptable for publication, you either agree or disagree with the statement made. The article is just a piece of social engineering from one persons view.

Really? So if in India, a national newspaper were to publish an editorial calling Australians a racist people, you would be okay with it?

Don't worry, it won't happen. Why? because publishing bigotry is not deemed acceptable.

I must of missed it, can you please post the section of that article you think is racist?

Last week ungrateful Indians were burning effigies of Kevin Rudd, while in Iran Muslim suicide bombers were killing fellow Muslims in the run up to next week's elections there.

There is no shame in most of us sharing Western Christian values. And if you are feeling morally, educationally and culturally superior to such people this morning, it's probably because you are.

You don't consider the above highlighted portion racist? Saying that Western values are superior to Indian culture is not bigotry?

Nah freedom expression should not have limits IMO. Unless you are deliberately stating false accusations at somebody then everything is fair game. As we say over here, "if you dont like it then change the channel"

Freedom of speech has it's limits in the sense that you can't get away by publishing racist drivel against a particular race/religion..etc

 

[freeman]

Really? So if in India, a national newspaper were to publish an editorial calling Australians a racist people, you would be okay with it?

Don't worry, it won't happen. Why? because publishing bigotry is not deemed acceptable.





You don't consider the above highlighted portion racist? Saying that Western values are superior to Indian culture is not bigotry?



Freedom of speech has it's limits in the sense that you can't get away by publishing racist drivel against a particular race/religion..etc

yeah i dont consider that racist, you have highlighted the wrong part.

"Last week ungrateful Indians were burning effigies of Kevin Rudd, while in Iran Muslim suicide bombers were killing fellow Muslims in the run up to next week's elections there.

There is no shame in most of us sharing Western Christian values. And if you are feeling morally, educationally and culturally superior to such people this morning, it's probably because you are."


The article is referring to feeling morally superior to suicide bombers and people that burn effigies. Dunno about the effigies part but gotta agree with the suicide bomber bit.
As i said before it is one person's opinion, but seriously mate, read the article properly.

 

[Nemesis]

Read the entire article, it gives the impression that all Indians are burning effigies of Kevin Rudd. Moreover, why exactly is "Iran Muslim suicide bombers" relevant to the main topic of the article. The writer is equating suicide bombings with effigy burning and implying that this is endemic in Eastern nations. Hence the superior values part at the end.

In addition to the ungrateful Indians part and the title of the article which is "Indians should learn from us" makes the article racist.

 

[freeman]

Read the entire article, it gives the impression that all Indians are burning effigies of Kevin Rudd. Moreover, why exactly is "Iran Muslim suicide bombers" relevant to the main topic of the article. The writer is equating suicide bombings with effigy burning and implying that this is endemic in Eastern nations. Hence the superior values part at the end.

In addition to the ungrateful Indians part and the title of the article which is "Indians should learn from us" makes the article racist.

yeah well we gona have to disagree on this one. Saying "ungrateful Indians" or "Indians should learn from us" is not racist. The title "Indians should learn from us" could be the title for a new curry recipe article!
The author of that article is a skilled social engineer. He did not make broad statements labeling an entire race or ethnicity, only certain members of a community as seen by the author to be displaying anti social behavior.

Sure you could probably describe the author as arrogant or stupid and who knows maybe he is a racist person in real life, but go over every sentence with "racist" highlighted in a dictionary next you. And carefully decipher it yourself.
No offense mate but i think you are getting racism mixed up with opinion.

 

[Communist]

History is awash with instances where races have used religion as a mean to destroy and take over another civilization.

Who told you that? Which historian has ever said that?

Caste is another matter altogether. There has been an order of hierachy in all societies even in this present day. Call it casteism or by any other form, human to human discrimination will exist as long as their is civilization. There is no need to spin a religious angle to it. The christian crusades have killed more people than any other religious persuasion.

I know you are of Indian origin. But let me tell you, all Indians do not follow castes. Muslims, Christians, Tribals, Dalits, Shudras and other minority groups give a damn to your casteist hierarchy. Your own intellectual Mr Jug Suraiya calls caste a version of racism and you can see in the article I posted above.

Plus, i do not know in which order of hierarchy you are living now. I am not interested to know your weired order of hierarchy. May be you feel superior to your next door neighbor, may be, you feel superior to the dalit sweeper of your apartment, but let me tell you, you are not superior to me. You can never be, no matter how much you try by taking births, rebirths or whatever. I do not know whether you are feeling superior to Mr Jug Suraiya, but to me his views are more acceptable than that of yours.

If any Indian claims that the crimes occurred in Australia have a racial motivation, I would say, the claim itself is not valid and legitimate. If a group of people has already been accused of practicing racism in the form of caste or whatever package, they do not have the right to accuse another group branding them racists. Thats all I wanted to say. Clear and bold.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thanks for spelling that out clearly. I always wondered about the sweeping bans on that previous thread - can we add that to the list of rules for forum ? Say something like "Do not generalize racial statements" or something like that.The generalization is what trips the whole discussion up.

You know, this should be rather obvious without having specificity in the forum rules. as it is there is a blurb about 'no racist posts' in the rules, so that should cover this issue.

BTW, How is it OK to say "Indians follow Caste system - which is racism" on the same thread ?

It is not OK to suggest that Indians follow the caste system - it is OK to point out that casteism exists in India (and for that matter in Pakistan as well).

It is not OK to call Australians racist or Australia a racist nation - it is OK to point out that racism exists in Australia.

It is not OK to call Muslims/Pakistanis extremists/terrorists or Pakistan a terrorist nation - it is OK to point out that extremism/terrorism exists in Pakistan/Muslim world.

The language one uses to make an argument needs to be carefully considered before posting.

When such instances are brought to our notice the moderators act upon them. Cherry picking isolated cases where the moderators may not have acted for various reasons, to try and argue that moderation is biased, is not helpful. We get complaints from the Pakistani side as well that we did not act on negative stereotyping and generalizations of Pakistanis and/or Muslims.

We get to whatever we can.

Here for example, from the thread creator.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...dians-australians-car-torched.html#post395289

I don't see anything wrong with his post there, except for the use of the word 'Japs', which quite frankly I was not aware was a slur until I googled it. Apparently in North America at least is considered to be a slur by people of Japanese descent.

But that is noted, and I'll let an admin know so it can be put on a filter.

Dunno if this should be a personal message to moderator or not, but being a thread on racism it seemed appropriate. At least we can have civil debates. Please delete if not.

It should be discussed through PM, but since you posted this on the forum, I'll address it on the forum for now, since I have not been able to get to an earlier PM of yours either.

The posters that were banned on the last thread were banned because they had multiple infractions and had been temporarily banned before as well.

 

[Nemesis]

yeah well we gona have to disagree on this one. Saying "ungrateful Indians" or "Indians should learn from us" is not racist. The title "Indians should learn from us" could be the title for a new curry recipe article!
The author of that article is a skilled social engineer. He did not make broad statements labeling an entire race or ethnicity, only certain members of a community as seen by the author to be displaying anti social behavior.

Sure you could probably describe the author as arrogant or stupid and who knows maybe he is a racist person in real life, but go over every sentence with "racist" highlighted in a dictionary next you. And carefully decipher it yourself.
No offense mate but i think you are getting racism mixed up with opinion.

You're looking at things selectively. Sure the title can be used in just about anything. But the title, together with the content, make it a bigoted editorial.

I'm well aware its his opinion. What my point is, the fact that his opinions are published in a national paper suggests that this kind of opinion is acceptable. However, it would seem that we're derailing the thread. The article is of no importance. Lets focus on the attacks on Indian students.

any Indian claim that the crimes occurred in Australia have a racial motivation, I would say, the claim itself is not valid and legitimate. If a group of people has already been accused of practicing racism in the form of caste or whatever package, they do not have the right to accuse another group branding them racists. Thats all I wanted to say. Clear and bold.

Congrats, you outdo yourself. So if a group of Indians are subjected to racist attacks, they do not have the right to protest just because Indians practiced the caste system in the past?

So according to your logic, or the lack there off, Christians can't protest against violence inflicted on them by people of other religions because of the racist propaganda followed by Europe during the17th to the 20th century. Or that a Brit cant protest against discrimination because of imperialism, etc etc. Honestly, there's a limit to stupidity.

 

[Communist]

... except for the use of the word 'Japs', which quite frankly I was not aware was a slur until I googled it. Apparently in North America at least is considered to be a slur by people of Japanese descent.

But that is noted, and I'll let an admin know so it can be put on a filter.

Wow, I also did not know the word contains a derogatory sense. Thanks for the information. We learn every day. I ask forgiveness for using the word, but it was due to my ignorance. I feel ashamed and I would like to welcome any kind of punishment for that offence. After all I committed an offence.

As far as the caste issue is concerned, I think, whether it exists in Pakistan at all or not, is completely off-topic, the issue under discussion is between India and Australia. Any reference to Pakistan should be considered irrelevant and unwanted, though it is up to the mods to decide.

 

[Communist]

I'm well aware its his opinion. What my point is, the fact that his opinions are published in a national paper suggests that this kind of opinion is acceptable. However, it would seem that we're derailing the thread. The article is of no importance. Lets focus on the attacks on Indian students.

This thread as the title shows is not exclusively about attacks on Indians, rather the the nature of retaliatory measures Indians are taking. It is about the validity and legitimacy of Indian response to the attacks which are supposedly considered racists by Indians.

Congrats, you outdo yourself. So if a group of Indians are subjected to racist attacks, they do not have the right to protest just because Indians practiced the caste system in the past?

There is no need to congratulate me. And I have already posted a BBC article which clearly shows how caste is still there in the Hindu mind. Again I am not saying this, the BBC article says this. I have also posted other articles which show how brutally caste is enjoyed in a majority group of religious people of India, not by all. Also the existence of reservation indicates the presence of the curse.

 

[Communist]

Indian entertainment industry boycotts the Australian nation!!!

Bollywood boycotts Australia over attacks

MUMBAI: A leading Bollywood union said on Friday it would not shoot any films in Australia until the government takes action against people behind a series of violent assaults on Indian students there.

The attacks, which Indian media have called race-based, caused some diplomatic discomfort between the two countries and sparked angry protests in India. Australia's government condemned the attacks but said racism was not behind them.

Australia is a hot destination for Indian film-makers with about a dozen films shot there every year. Two of last year's biggest hits, "Bachna Ae Haseeno" and "Singh is Kinng", were shot in Australia.

"We bring them (Australian government) so much revenue and yet they attack our students," Dinesh Chaturvedi, head of the Federation of Western India Cine Employees (FWICE), said.

"We will not work in Australia, unless their government brings the perpetrators to justice."

The federation has 45,000 members, including actors and engineers working in Mumbai's huge movie business.

The boycott comes after four Indian students were attacked with a screwdriver by a gang at a Melbourne party last month.

Another Indian student was attacked in what appeared to be a robbery, and there were three other attacks in early May, including two on Indian taxi drivers.

Following the attacks, India's top actor, Amitabh Bachchan, turned down an honorary doctorate from an Australian university, saying his conscience did not allow him to accept the honour.

Around 93,000 of the 430,000 foreign students in Australia are Indians, up from around 30,000 only a few years ago.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4630166.cms

What is the fault of Australian universities, Australian Govt and above all Australian nation??

 

[Communist]

His Holiness Dalai Lama condemns Indian blaming for gross generalization.

Blaming entire Australia for racist attacks wrong: Dalai Lama - India - The Times of India

INDORE: Describing the attacks on Indian students in Australia as 'disappointing', Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama today said it would be wrong to blame the entire nation for the acts of a few people.

"The attacks on Indian students is disappointing but only a handful of people were behind it," the Nobel Laureate told reporters in Indore.

"It would be wrong to generalise the entire country or society as racist on the basis of a few incidents. In my view, this is wrong," he said.

The behaviour of the native Australians is fast turning positive towards people of other cultures who have settled there, the spiritual leader said.

Dalai Lama, who was in Indore to deliver a lecture on 'Compassion and Non-Violence' and interact with students of the Indian Institute of Management, noted that "racism was fast disappearing from the globe".

"Be it Malaysia in Asia or England in Europe, the walls of division are fast crumbling", he said.

"Differences between the Whites and Blacks have become a thing of the past in the United States of America", the Noble Laureate said pointing out that Afro-American Barrack Obama was now the president of the US.

 

[Communist]

Tourism minister Kumari Selja postpones Australia visit - India - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: Union tourism minister Kumari Selja postponed her Australia visit next month in the wake of a series of attacks on Indian students in that country.

"I am not going to Australia for the tourism promotional event scheduled in July," Selja said.

The Tourism Ministry had planned a series of promotional programmes in Australian cities in July to showcase India as an attractive adventure tourism destination.

"The prevailing atmosphere is not conducive for such promotional event and the ministry will work out a new schedule after the situation improves," she said.

The Ministry has already carried out a series of roadshows in collaboration with Indian Association of Tour Operators (IATO) in 22 cities across the globe including Melbourne, Singapore, London, Dubai, Beijing, Tokyo and New York.

The proposed programme was specifically meant to focus on adventure tourism destinations in India.

"The ministry had finalized a package offering trekking, river rafting and mountaineering to attract Australians as part of adventure tourism destinations in India," said a senior tourism ministry official.



India scraps Australia tourism

New Delhi: The growing incidents of racial attacks on Indian students in Australia led to its first diplomatic fallout, as the Indian government scrapped a series of road shows in the country.

Despite assurances from Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, clearly things were not alright. It became evident when Indian tourism ministry cancelled its road shows down under.

Union Tourism Minister Kumari Selja''s upcoming Australia tour also stood cancelled. This was confirmed by the minister herself to media.

India was to undertake road shows in various cities of Australia to promote tourism in India. It certainly does not bode well for the diplomatic ties between the two countries.

© 2008 mynews.in

India scraps Australia tourism showsINDIANEWS MyNews.in:

 

[jeypore]

Indian entertainment industry boycotts the Australian nation!!!

Bollywood boycotts Australia over attacks

MUMBAI: A leading Bollywood union said on Friday it would not shoot any films in Australia until the government takes action against people behind a series of violent assaults on Indian students there.

The attacks, which Indian media have called race-based, caused some diplomatic discomfort between the two countries and sparked angry protests in India. Australia's government condemned the attacks but said racism was not behind them.

Australia is a hot destination for Indian film-makers with about a dozen films shot there every year. Two of last year's biggest hits, "Bachna Ae Haseeno" and "Singh is Kinng", were shot in Australia.

"We bring them (Australian government) so much revenue and yet they attack our students," Dinesh Chaturvedi, head of the Federation of Western India Cine Employees (FWICE), said.

"We will not work in Australia, unless their government brings the perpetrators to justice."

The federation has 45,000 members, including actors and engineers working in Mumbai's huge movie business.

The boycott comes after four Indian students were attacked with a screwdriver by a gang at a Melbourne party last month.

Another Indian student was attacked in what appeared to be a robbery, and there were three other attacks in early May, including two on Indian taxi drivers.

Following the attacks, India's top actor, Amitabh Bachchan, turned down an honorary doctorate from an Australian university, saying his conscience did not allow him to accept the honour.

Around 93,000 of the 430,000 foreign students in Australia are Indians, up from around 30,000 only a few years ago.

Bollywood boycotts Australia over attacks- Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times

What is the fault of Australian universities, Australian Govt and above all Australian nation??

Losing revenues always creates change. And from the likes of Mr. communist is posting regarding to Indian reactions, surely the change will come quickly in Australia.

 

[Communist]

The reports I am going to post below may seem off topic to the Indian members, but as a matter of fact, the reports indicate a growing schizophrenia among some Indian people (NOT ALL) who are feeling insecure as they hallucinate the racist ghost everywhere. Yes, now its Canada's turn.

Is Canada going to be the next victim after Australia?

Why are Indians assuming that they are targeted by racism across the globe when a lot of other Asians and South Asians also live abroad?

 

[Communist]

After Australia, Indians attacked in Canada | LivePunjab

June 10, 2009 - 0 comments

Vancouver, June 10: Indians playing tennis became victim of racial assault by four white Canadians at Langley, Vancouver.

According to police reports, the white Canadians have been charged with allegedly assaulting a group of Indian-origin men who were playing tennis. The four suspects involved in the assault shouted racially based expletives.

The four Canadians involved in the assault including three men and a woman indulged in using racial “obscenities and threats” on the six Indians.

“The suspects attempted to enter the tennis court which was now barricaded by the tennis players. They were able to force their way into the tennis court and intimidated the victims until they were backed into a corner. One of the suspects threw a fence board at the group of tennis players hitting one of them in the head,” the police revealed.

The attackers also snatched the belongings of the Indian victims. The police later arrested the assailants and recovered the stolen belongings from them. According to police, the Canadians involved in the attack have been charged with assault, robbery, resulting in physical harm and shouting threats to the victims.

The victims belong to city of Abbotsford which has nearly 25 percent strong Indian community living there.