Indian Rafale Jets Would Have Been Useless Against Chinese Airforce – Russia Experts

[Raj-Hindustani]

ASIA PACIFIC
Indian Rafale Jets Would Have Been Useless Against Chinese Airforce – Russia Experts
July 10, 2020
By EurAsian Times Desk
Rafale jets would have been useless against the Chinese Airforce (PLAAF) – Russian aviation experts have claimed. Rafale fighter jets belong to the 4 ++ generation would not have been of much use had an aerial conflict broken out in Ladakh again the PLAAF.

JF-17 vs Rafale: Why Pakistani JF-17 Thunder Poses A Serious Threat To Indian Rafale Fighter Jets?


As reported by EurAsian Times, India and China had been engaged in a brutal conflict in the Himalayan region of Ladakh. Troops of both countries have exchanged blows and even lost soldiers in the conflict that began more than a month ago

Keeping in mind the situation in Ladakh, France said that it would accelerate the delivery of Rafale fighter jets to India. Aviation experts believe that the arrival of Rafale fighter jets will significantly boost the combat capability of the Indian Air Force (IAF). However, according to Russian experts, who did not wish to be named, the French fighter would not help India much incase the conflict turns hot.

The astronomical cost of Rafale fighter jets is one of the reasons the French 4++ fighter jet would not help India. In the deal struck with Paris, New Delhi agreed to purchase 36 Rafale Jets. The total cost of the deal was an estimated Rs 59,000 crore with each jet costing around Rs 1,646 crore.

The cost of a Rafale is about three times higher than the Chinese J-20 stealth fighter jets. In other words, for 36 French-made Rafale fighters that will appear in the Indian Air Force, China can respond with three times as many of its fifth-generation J-20 fighters – for the same money.

Even if, in some ways, the characteristics of the Chinese combat aircraft lag behind the French 4 ++ fighter jet, then the Indian air force could get overwhelmed by what is called “capable of crushing by quantity”.

And the cost is not the only reason why Rafale jets would not help India much. Compared to another Chinese jet – J-16 (an analogue of the Russian Su-35) which Beijing is also using in its airforce, the Rafale jets will find it extremely challenging to outgun the Russian Su-35s operated by the Chinese.

The maximum speed of the Rafale jet is about Mach 1.8 and the J-16 is Mach 2.2. The Rafale’s practical ceiling is also lower than the J-16s. Even in engine thrust, the Chinese J-16s aka Russian Su-35s are far superior to the French combat aircraft.

Even if the IAF was to deploy all 36 of its newly acquired jets, the technical superiority would still be on the side of China, claims the Russian expert.

The IAF has been on high alert in Ladakh and is closely monitoring all Chinese activity near the Line of Control. As reported by EurAsian Times, New Delhi has inked a deal with Moscow to buy 33 new fighter aircraft including 12 Su-30MKIs and 21 MiG-29s along with up-gradation of 59 MiG-29s. The addition and up-gradation of jets have been approved to strengthen India’s air power.

The air defence systems of both the Indian Army and the IAF have been deployed in Ladakh to prevent any misadventure by the Chinese Air Force fighter jets or the People’s Liberation Army choppers there.

https://eurasiantimes.com/indian-ra...less-against-chinese-airforce-russia-experts/

US - mig 29 is useless against China . buy f21 fighter.

Russia - rafale is useless against china. Buy su 57

China - everything useless against us. Buy jf 17

 

[beijingwalker]

US - mig 29 is useless against China . buy f21 fighter.

Russia - rafale is useless against china. Buy su 57

China - everything useless against us. Buy jf 17

How about trying to build your own

 

[Tumba]

do you know what canards are for, and what internal weapons stores are for?

if IAF planes use even a single external hardpoint its RCS increases drastically. Every single quoted RCS is for clean configuration. Only J-20, F-35 and F-22 keep the clean configuration RCS. Everything else... if they mount a weapon, their RCS goes through the roof.

canards in J-20 is to give good agility in sub sonic speeds and yes the internal bomb way will be used to load next gen chinese anti ship missiles...

question of RCS doesnt come here ... J-20 is detected by MKI IRST multiple times ...

J-20 is not a match to either F-22 or even F-35 ... chinese doesnt even have a engine to match forget about sensor fusion tech that west has mastered in last 3 decades.. Rafale can not only take care of J-20 but in many situations can assure a easy kill in Himalayan terrain

 

[Crixus]

Made in China .......... no one can beat

US - mig 29 is useless against China . buy f21 fighter.

Russia - rafale is useless against china. Buy su 57

China - everything useless against us. Buy jf 17

 

[beijingwalker]

Made in China .......... no one can beat

Made in India can beat it.

 

[Crixus]

No one can match Chinese quality ....... even you are justifying Chinese quality with your post ...no ond world can even come near Chinese maal

Even F22 are useless in front of mighty Chinese quality

Made in India can beat it.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

India should ideally surrender and save money.

Pakistan and China can better adminster the people.

Made in India can beat it.

With Hindu Vedic planes.

 

[Figaro]

you didn’t understand what I have written O told you specifically J-20 is no super manoeuvrable platform Chinese doesn't have good enough engine right now to support this bomb truck ...

I remember reading a US military report but cant find the link now...

These are exact thing they wrote:

J-20 primary mission is to fly low and shoot Anti Ship missile at US fleet

J-20 has no manoeuvrability at high speeds and will be a good target specially from rear and sides as most of stealth is optimised at front.

I trust Us military over random journos or PdF posters ...

This clearly states not a high Thrust2Weight ration makes it not a ideal platform to be used in Himalayan front ofcourse it can carry few strike weapons but it wont be able to carry out sead duties beyond Himalayas...

Its been reported that Chinese tested J-20 in Tibbet ... Su-30 MKi pretty much detected it everytime using IRST from a good enough distance to log few IR homing AAMs..

rest when the time comes we will know but these are the assessments... I dont think PLAAf will be too eager to use J-20 most the weight will fall on Flanker clones and original flankers from Russia think they r more than capable to take care of stuff thab J-20 in Tibbetan terrain

Did you even attempt to read the article ... the article made no mention of your claim whatsoever. It says specifically the J-20 is not a strike fighter. The author of the article is perhaps the foremost authority on PLA weaponry. Even the likes of National Interest, Business Insider, and various other defense websites quote him. Why don't you read it first before responding to me.

question of RCS doesnt come here ... J-20 is detected by MKI IRST multiple times ...

Fake Indian news as usual ... the J-20 was never even deployed or test flown in that area in the time of the alleged detection. Also, if it was at the Indian border, the J-20 would employ a luneberg lense. Do you even know what that is? Do you think the Chinese would ever allow an adversary to gain information on the stealth abilities of its most prized possession?

 

[Tumba]

Did you even attempt to read the article ... the article made no mention of your claim whatsoever. It says specifically the J-20 is not a strike fighter. The author of the article is perhaps the foremost authority on PLA weaponry. Even the likes of National Interest, Business Insider, and various other defense websites quote him. Why don't you read it first before responding to me.


Fake Indian news as usual ... the J-20 was never even deployed or test flown in that area in the time of the alleged detection. Also, if it was at the Indian border, the J-20 would employ a luneberg lense. Do you even know what that is? Do you think the Chinese would ever allow an adversary to gain information on the stealth abilities of its most prized possession?

yaa i trust u over Indian military ... these chinese cheap propoganda doesnt work on India... luneberg haha r u that stupid even time after time posting IRST identified ur cheap chinese knockoff from miles away RCs doesnt come here and even in that J-20 doesnt have all aspect stealth ..

 

[beijingwalker]

yaa i trust u over Indian military ... these chinese cheap propoganda doesnt work on India....

The sources is from Russian experts, if you don't believe Russians, why did you rush buy so many Russian planes in recent days?

 

[Tumba]

The sources is from Russian experts, if you don't believe Russians, why did you rush buy so many Russian planes recently?

Russian planes?

Those 20 odd stored Mig-29s are here to jack up numbers in cheap and 12 MKI will be licensed produced to take care of MkI attrition.. the number of MkI will stay same as per contract of 280...

IAF wont buy any more russian planes it will be domestic or west from now on, Russians are way behind west on fighter manufacturing but still ahead of chinese though lol

 

[Figaro]

yaa i trust u over Indian military ... these chinese cheap propoganda doesnt work on India... luneberg haha r u that stupid even time after time posting IRST identified ur cheap chinese knockoff from miles away RCs doesnt come here and even in that J-20 doesnt have all aspect stealth ..

Are you really this stubborn? I linked you an article from a Western observer and yet you are refusing to read it. If this is the case, there is really no need to talk to you if you don't want to have a meaningful discussion. And judging by your reply, clearly luneberg lense is not in your terminology. Hopefully you can enlighten yourself by reading the two links I shared and stop spewing nonsense. Hopefully, you have a super basic understanding of EM physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luneburg_lens

 

[Tumba]

Are you really this stubborn? I linked you an article from a Western observer and yet you are refusing to read it. If this is the case, there is really no need to talk to you if you don't want to have a meaningful discussion. And judging by your reply, clearly luneberg lense is not in your terminology. Hopefully you can enlighten yourself by reading the two links I shared and stop spewing nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luneburg_lens

How stupid r u I knowwhat a luneberg lense is... I am telling unagain the fat *** chinese knockoff was detected time and again by last generation russian IRST system installed on MKI, Radar detection is completely another thing

 

[Figaro]

How stupid r u I knowwhat a luneberg lense is... I am telling unagain the fat *** chinese knockoff was detected time and again by last generation russian IRST system installed on MKI, Radar detection is completely another thing

Lol so now it is a Chinese knockoff? First you claim the J-20 is dedicated for a strike row, then you claim it is unstealthy, and now you are saying its a Chinese knockoff? Why are you introducing a bunch of red herrings? Why don't you defend what you said earlier about it being a strike fighter? Also if you know what a luneberg lens is then isn't its detection inevitable ... this is of course assuming that the J-20 even flew near the Indian border which did not occur.

EDIT : Oh so now the Indians claim the J-20 is detectable by IRST? So they managed to detect the J-20 via radar and IRST? Wow the supa powa never fails to amaze me

No one can match Chinese quality ....... even you are justifying Chinese quality with your post ...no ond world can even come near Chinese maal

Even F22 are useless in front of mighty Chinese quality

No one can match made in India quality items actually. It is said that Indian items are so high quality that they are so extremely rare that I have never even been in contact with one

 

[FuturePAF]

I understand those things but it is not just domestic Indian population but their Air force which is showing such attitude. Rafale is a previous generation Jet world will have 6th Gen by the time India will acquire Rafale.
I have given it a lot of thinking & in my opinion India plans to use these 36 Jets to train it's pilots & get familiar with latest tech which other countries in the region already have. Indian pilots were flying obsolete jets & obsolete weapon systems which world had already ditched.

One Indian analyst claim this is what they are doing with the S-400, a training tool for their Air Force. So it is likely they maybe doing the same with the Rafale.

Hence Why Pakistan should buy at least 18 Block 72 F-16s. Northrop Grumman makes the SABR radar for the Block 72. The way the radar integrates with the avionics and other electronics of the aircraft can allow the PAF to study the technology (through use not reverse engineering) and match any capability India could field vis a vi the Rafale.

I think the PAF still has the option to purchase of 18 F-16s from the 2005 sale. Northrop’s radars are also onboard the F-22 and F-35, so the avionics and integration on board the Block 72 F-16s should at least allow Pakistan to have intimate knowledge of the latest electronics and how best to use them; EW, LPI radar techniques, how best to use the radar alongside an IRST or at least the sniper pod when combating an air target.

This knowledge will be invaluable for tHE PAF as it is working on furthering along its domestic projects like the JF-17 and its 5th generation requirement.

The 18 Block 72 will also maintain the psychological fear/deterrence in the IAF of modern American technology in the hands of the PAF, which the PAF used so expertly in Feb. 2019.