Indian Navy Threat to Gwadar 2017

[assassin123]

do you think india can afford 10+ AIP subs sitting quietly ready to sink any merchant ship that enters india water.
naval blockade is not a simple thing its declaration of war, Pakistan can achieve the same thing just by declaring its own naval blockade by declaring that it will sink any ship that enters or leaves Indian port

having said that large number of mobile coastal batteries will do good of Indian ships if they do try to attempt a blockade

PN doesnt carry a separate air arm, PAF job is to handle botht he IAF and IN naval arm.

so comparing assets would be IAF+IN vs PAF, our thunders with SD-10 and falcons with AIM 120 are more than capable to handle any IAF aircraft.

its the numerical sup that india enjoys, which means longer war of attrition will lead to indian victory but can india afford it, the losses will be devastating, a long war will also mean ultimately the MAD scenario will come into effect

why do you think india never did a blockade in 50 years including the long driven kargil war

Your costal batteries have a maximum range of say some 600km that dosent stop IN ships from blocking vital supplies to your ports.
Contrary to your belief IN enjoys a huge qualitative edge as well.

 

[Samlee]

Not the IAF only the Indian Navy Aviation which operated independently 45 Mig29K and 14 Sea Harriers.

As the INS Vikramaditya is doing operations beyond our waters that means all Mig29K problems are solved because when we had problems with the Mig29K the Vikramaditya kept close to Indian shores so in case of emergency the Mig29K could land on share based airfields.

When inducting a new platform there are always challenges which have to be overcome. Look at the F-35. It's doing better than 5 years ago.

A tool is only as good as its operator. Absolutely true.

Your assumption that IAF pilots are inferior to PAF pilots is your hangover from 1965.
When Mysteres and Vampires both bombers against F-86 and F-104 both fighters.

Who wins in air to air combat between bombers and fighters?

Forward to 1971 the IAF gets fighters the Mig 21.

Now both forces have fighters.
IAF knocks the senses out of PAF.

Complete air superiority over East Pakistan.
West Pakistan the PAF has fled into Afghanistan and Middle East.

Why? Do we now say IAF pilots are far superior to PAF pilots?

You won't have any numerical advantage as your PAF is totally deployed against IAF and when IN naval aviation strikes total disarray.

112 old Mirages all will fly out to sea ?

Even if you did that today with no war ongoing less than 100 would return.

IN aid procuring 57 more Naval multirole fighters and they are 2 contenders.

Rafale M and F-18 SH.

Both being procured by their respective home countries currently unlike some aircraft.

F-16 vs Rafale.

AMRAAM vs Meteor + Spectra.

Rafale already has AESA.

No comparison.

IN will strike where it wants when it wants.

600km + range supersonic cruise missiles against aging PN frigates.

SSN vs age old ASW.

It's game over.

Sea lanes blocked.

No oil from your west.

No water from your north east.



In the event nukes are held back indefinitely then the PN surface fleet is sunk, sub fleet is unaccounted for as the wrecks cannot be confirmed by either side during all the confusion of combat.

Said costal defence batteries would have been overwhelmed by Baloch fighters. After all when will the 6 consultes come of any use.

Looking at a ground landing force at Gwadar to link up with BLA and ANA.

Wow That Champions Trophy Defeat Has Really Gotten To Your Head Poor Guy I Really Feel Sorry For You

and ANA???? They Have Already Lost Control of Half Their Country

BLA?????They Are Surrendering In Droves Now

Look At A Map

We Already Drove Away Your Submarine

https://www.dawn.com/news/1297112

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Gwadar will always remain under Indian Navy's shadow, so will be the entire CPEC project under our military's reach, sooner or later Pakistan has to learn to cooperate with its bigger neighbour, or else China will make sure that Pakistan does. That's the only way.

This is indian dream to make their neighbours follow her so she act as leader or accept her as regional power but when it comes to east indian just lick the dust and its indian birth right to have a dream.
CPEC maybe is in indian reach so is mumbai we take out your bank and you be broke. Be careful what you wish for.
live like a good boy!

 

[el nino]

India is already the regional power as accepted by the world.

Nobody needs stamp of approval from Pakistan in thst respect.

.maybe you can't see how all the words top leaders fly over Pakistan every year straight to new Delhi to meet Modi .

Ignoring your nation in route .

 

[Readerdefence]

Even if they dont have supercruisers they can decimate their enemies with whatever they have, so lets not indulge in flamebaiting and trolling and keep the discussion meaningful, cheers.

So my friend in your logic Chinese have zero experience with their aircraft carrier and Indians have tons of experience when did they last used their AC in war specially sorties hence I think
At least you will think of Chinese investment in Gawadar they are not ..head who just pouring dollars in somewhere where they can not protect their interests
So it will be very naive from you to think that Indian can eliminate PN or put up a blockade against Pakistan every country specially Chinese have the ways and means to protect their interests if they can challenge or trying to intimidate American P8 don't worry they won't let India to put up a blockade against Pakistan
Thx

 

[ghazi768]

So you think

India is already in your EEZ.

It's Known fact that Indian navy operates survaliannce across from gwader in Oman.

Soon their will more navy assets chabber in Iran.

The Indians have more listening and survey posts in Maldives and Madagascar.

Finally the idea is to keep you boxed in and to suffocate your energy and trade

Your surface fleet has only point defence AA.
Easy picking for our sea launched Brahmos.

When surface fleet is eliminated Zulfikar, and U.K. frigates etc the ASW of IN the Helis and corvettes kamorta move in with the SSN hunter killer, the Type 209's, Scorpenes, Kilos to eliminate the small sub fleet.

At the same enjoying its huge size IN seizes all oil ships and cargo ships heading to Pak.

Complete embargo imposed with little effort.

Free oil for India if we decide to divert them to Mumbai.

You both trolls are having wet dreams..

No doubt IN has acquired a large surface fleet but it can use it for power projection against likes of maldives or other island or week nations, not going to work against us.

You have practically one carrier at this time, it is going to host 2 and half squadrons at best. It is a stobar carrier so practically the force you can bring to bear against us is between 1 and 1 and half squadrons. If you had looked carefully at our coast we have now more than one dedicated interceptor bases and additional FOBs to quickly deploy fighters to, with dedicated refuellers and AWACS we can operate and strike quite deep in Arabian sea or Gulf. Your fighters at bhoj or at bases even further away will have quite few problems to contend with in terms of range and resulting limitations on tactics before they have to handle fighters and interceptors from bases in front of them on our western coast.

In war if your admirals are really stupid to bring your ENTIRE fleet near us and against us (which I highly doubt) and it is found than we can bring quite a serious amount of air power to overwhelm your fleet's air group and punish you for such a mistake.

In a fleet to fleet battle deep in the ocean, no doubt you can bring your numbers to bear, but are we that stupid...

The truth is that when the war starts we'll just plug the Gulf for you with our surface fleet and/or missile boats and than will wait for you to come.. while PN submarine fleet gets busy in laying snares for your fleet. With in a few years with the acquisition planned in fighters, surface fleet and submarines, and coastal batteries at the mouth of the Gulf, these capabilities will be comprehensive. Does not matter if and when you induct the next set of carriers.. our sea lanes will remain open from Gulf and it will remain closed to you..that is what matters, all else we cannot care less.

 

[Rational guy]

So my friend in your logic Chinese have zero experience with their aircraft carrier and Indians have tons of experience when did they last used their AC in war specially sorties hence I think
At least you will think of Chinese investment in Gawadar they are not ..head who just pouring dollars in somewhere where they can not protect their interests
So it will be very naive from you to think that Indian can eliminate PN or put up a blockade against Pakistan every country specially Chinese have the ways and means to protect their interests if they can challenge or trying to intimidate American P8 don't worry they won't let India to put up a blockade against Pakistan
Thx

Look mate i have a neutral view on all subjects, and i would still maintain that yes, china has zero experience in modern naval warfare even pakistani military has grater combat experience than that of chinas, they are in the process of learning to operate their casino turned aircrft carrier and they cannot use it as effectively in war as the indians can, their subs are noisy so much so that when it comes to noose they can be compared with the russian subs of 70s, and about the p8 incidence it was just that american wanted to avoid any escaltion or conflict and not that tney are scared of the chinese, chinese military power is puny in front of america's and this is the fact.

 

[Basel]

Thermonukes you mean to say? You must remember that you are not the only ones with nukes. Indians SSBNs can hit pakistan with nukes even from east africa coast.

You and your limited knowledge, I was referring to Tactical Nuclear weapons.

 

[Hamza913]

I think we should stop debating. Here are reasons from this very thread posted from our knowledgeable Paksitani members why IN sucks. Indian Navy can now sell all their equipment for scrap since we have no chance of overwhelming the might Pakistanis.

Didn't say IN sucks. I said it cannot perform a blockade of Pakistan. Big difference.

 

[kris]

Hope this is a Sarcasm comment ..
Even Russian+China+Indian Navy combine can't Win against USN if they utilize all their resources , ships and Air Power ..

we are at home, we have advantage here

Another self fellatio video?

The IN is easily one of the most potent navies that could give the USN a run for its money if such a situation did occur.

And it should be, India's ample coast and EEZ demand nothing less, vs a barely 700km coastline of Pakistan and the general ease with which the PN can monitor it in peacetime; the IN (and coast guard more so)has a huge responsibility on its shoulders as the Mumbai attacks showed.

In addition, India needs its Coast as it has a hostile neighborhood all around to ensure one "secure" "border". It would be nothing short of idiotic if the IN was not given the greatest priority.

It is next to impossible for India to effectively protect all along its coast due to overwhelming numbers required and even laws of physics such as coastal clutter for surveillance systems.

thats why IN is going on smarter day by day. Its not easy to maintain security of such vast coasts, thats why we are turning more toward drones

Our submarines can practice anti area access denial, they're enough to prevent a blockade and that's what counts.

Also, it's not like the IN is going to send every ship in its fleet during a war.



You done fantasising yet?

without a decent naval air wing and air defense PN cant withstand IN onslaught.
What does pak has in this area?
Seniors, pls share some info

Your MiG-29K's have a 16%-39% serviceability rate. This means out of a fleet of 10 fighters, only one to 3 jets will be normally available for operations. The rest of the fleet would be gone for repairs. Since the induction of the 12 aircraft in 2010, as many as 40 engines fitted on them had to be withdrawn because of design related defects or deficiencies. Also, the reliability of their electronic flight control system proved to be as low as 3.5%-7.5% between July 2012 and June 2014. Besides engines problems and low serviceability, the airframe or fuselage of the MiG-29K's had several defects which were confirmed during their subsequent trial on INS Vikramaditya a year later. These were flagged to the Russian Aircraft Corporation. But though the issues were attended to, the airframe issues kept recurring. The defects occurred despite numerous design improvements and modifications. The regular occurrence of these defects on a sortie to sortie to basis was having an adverse impact on Indian Navy pilots training and capability of aircraft for undertaking prolonged deployments.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/audi...naval-acquisition-45-mig-29k-fighters-1436614

Believe me, Pakistan will be fine. Especially considering we'll be on the defensive, and have better trained pilots. Things will only get worse once block 3 of the JF-17 rolls around with it's AESA radar.

war time serviceability will definitely be better than before,
what radar does pakistan has to scan entire coast to know from where an enemy fighter is coming.
Aesa of JF will help only in intercepting it once identified. by then work will be done

When this happen please explain with neutral links

never mind

Your naval aviation can not come close to EEZ in war because if they do, IN knows what will be coming to them, Pakistani air defense is not as weak as Indian thinks.

IN will suffer huge losses if they put huge force to take out PN also tactics also matters, PN is not going for sea control instead they will go for area Denial which is mostly done by Submarines and other supporting assets combined. Also PN also have better TNW delivery capabilities then PA because many of their weapons can carry TNWs. West have used TNW threat against foe Navies effectively and PN can take note from their doctrine.

eager to know how tactical nukes are used by west navies...

As you have said it, even interested to know pakistani air defense on coasts

So you think


The Indian navy cannot be stretched when it's
main adversary is small coastal brown water navy from Pakistan.

This is year 2017 you saw the vedio showing data linking network between massive radars on land to satalites to huge aesa radars on multi billion dollar surface fleet.

You have no idea what modern naval net centric communication is about .

India navy is spending billions not to defend it's coastline it's building to dominate the Arabian sea and the Indian Ocean

You so off the mark Indian has reach to go anywhere in the Indian Ocean to force it's will it's political will end protect its interests




India is already in your EEZ.

It's Known fact that Indian navy operates survaliannce across from gwader in Oman.

Soon their will more navy assets chabber in Iran.

The Indians have more listening and survey posts in Maldives and Madagascar.

Finally the idea is to keep you boxed in and to suffocate your energy and trade

i think its not illegal to operate in other countries EEZ. Whats the big deal in it they cant stop it

Same goes for Pakistan, as both send assets to monitor each other, now PN can put pressure on IN to keep more assets to patrol their coastline and ports as SLCM threat from Subs are there, this will reduce the number of assets previously IN could have deployed against PN, also PN ASW assets patrol round the clock to monitor EEZ so it's cat and mouse game going on between two, Pakistan have good NCW capability too with AESA radars monitoring sea and air threats.

It's not that easy as you think.

If you see the purchases PN is going for you will know how difficult PN will make things for IN as IN is not USN.



To fire brahmos your IN and IAF have to come close to fire those and PN subs, MPAs with PAF fighters can keep them away, PN subs can hit targets up to 450km now, also we are not immediately going to war so in near future new subs, stealth ships (for ASW and patrol EEZ) along with multirole ships will available to protect EEZ and keep shipping safe.

fair enough

In that case india was destroyed on August the 14th 1947, as it was ripped, carved and dismembered to create Pakistan and the land that went on to become bangladesh. Both were ultimately made from conquered india territory. india will NEVER get those lands back.

oh please, spare us.
please have those lands. We don't want to have an inch of them

This Atlantique plane wasn't armed, and you damn well know it. As I've said before, if it was, we would have shot down your flying coffins easily.

As for Shahihd Aziz, his claims have already been refuted for being unbalanced, just like Nawaz Sharif's. Everyone has an agenda against Musharaf and this war, so everyone will speak against it through any means necessary.

discussed to death.
pls stay on topic pls

Don't forget they also carry the C-400AKG, which can strike down your carriers at mach 5 speed with a 1,600km strike range.

Please, I urge you to utilise this forum so you gain the knowledge you clearly lack. Good day.

1600 kms, are you nuts??
wiki says 240 kms at max

even then first you have to identify the target. How are you planning to??
An aircraft carrier need not come so close to your coast

More importantly Pakistan is yet to purchase CM-400AKG.

really??
so why all this bluffing ??

Not quite.

This scenario isn't all that improbable, remember the Hindustani navy cannot send it's entire or even most of its fleet, the coastline is far too big in comparison to ours.

Our surface fleet is pretty good. They could do a fair amount of damage especially with support from southern air command (they don't just have JF-17's, they also have Mirages and F-16's in ample numbers, more than enough to counter whatever the Hindustani navy's air arm brings and then some). However, if the war dragged they might not last, but our submarines could still prevent a blockade. They are very capable, and don't forget how they forced a Hindustani submarine to retreat in November. If they were so weak, I'm sure the Hindustani navy would have had no trouble destroying it, right?

Not to mention the complaints your own country has about the Hindustani navy's submarines:

http://www.oneindia.com/2013/08/20/...stans-powerful-submarines-report-1287237.html

The CM-400AKG is potent enough for the US to consider it a threat to their carriers, do you really think the Hindustani navy's carriers are better (or even comparable)? Several JF-17's can fire a bunch of them, and only one of them will have to hit to do some damage. It wouldn't be easy, but it's possible and probably enough to scare away your carriers or prevent a blockade, and this is just for carriers. Surface ships would have less of a chance, and could also be dealt with Babur or Raad (not sure how effective those would be against carriers, but I'm sure they could work on them too).

Performing a blockade is what we aim to prevent and can prevent, through the use of submarines and our powerful southern air command. It's not impossible or unlikely at all.



Might want to check again:

http://www.asian-defence.net/2012/1...ersonic-Carrier-Killer-Missile-For-JF-17.html

you keep on raising these things
1) JF-17 with AESA + CM-400AKG
2) submarine launched anti ship babur

my questions:
1) how will JF-17 identify its target, if identified how far can it fly over seas. even if reaches such distance to launch CM-400AKG, what are the chances that it survives IN air wing/ SAMs.
2) whats the max range of a submarine launched anti ship missile with PN. I doubt to believe that Submarine launched babur will have 450 kms in anti ship role - please feel free to correct

Yes, and .... ?

Certainly not the only source... and what matter is whether it is a GOOD blog.

all these ships are of netherlands royal navy, whats the relevance here??

do you think india can afford 10+ AIP subs sitting quietly ready to sink any merchant ship that enters india water.
naval blockade is not a simple thing its declaration of war, Pakistan can achieve the same thing just by declaring its own naval blockade by declaring that it will sink any ship that enters or leaves Indian port

having said that large number of mobile coastal batteries will do good of Indian ships if they do try to attempt a blockade

PN doesnt carry a separate air arm, PAF job is to handle botht he IAF and IN naval arm.

so comparing assets would be IAF+IN vs PAF, our thunders with SD-10 and falcons with AIM 120 are more than capable to handle any IAF aircraft.

its the numerical sup that india enjoys, which means longer war of attrition will lead to indian victory but can india afford it, the losses will be devastating, a long war will also mean ultimately the MAD scenario will come into effect

why do you think india never did a blockade in 50 years including the long driven kargil war

As pointed by another member, how can a pakistani submarine hide and survive after hitting an indian merchant ship? That too if far away from home?

pls name the mobile coastal battery in pak possession

So, according to you PAF should handle two fronts at same time. On land border you have radars for it, but what about on coast??

though off topic, i would like to tell why India never tried a naval blockade during kargil war.
1) Pakistan disowned its adventure
2) Pakistan lost its face diplomatically internationally, why give them a chance to save

Your mighty IN can't face TNWs salvos. Period

TNW over seas?? what do you want to kill - fishes??

Your costal batteries have a maximum range of say some 600km that dosent stop IN ships from blocking vital supplies to your ports.
Contrary to your belief IN enjoys a huge qualitative edge as well.

i want to know about coastal batteries. please throw some light
thank you

You both trolls are having wet dreams..

No doubt IN has acquired a large surface fleet but it can use it for power projection against likes of maldives or other island or week nations, not going to work against us.

You have practically one carrier at this time, it is going to host 2 and half squadrons at best. It is a stobar carrier so practically the force you can bring to bear against us is between 1 and 1 and half squadrons. If you had looked carefully at our coast we have now more than one dedicated interceptor bases and additional FOBs to quickly deploy fighters to, with dedicated refuellers and AWACS we can operate and strike quite deep in Arabian sea or Gulf. Your fighters at bhoj or at bases even further away will have quite few problems to contend with in terms of range and resulting limitations on tactics before they have to handle fighters and interceptors from bases in front of them on our western coast.

In war if your admirals are really stupid to bring your ENTIRE fleet near us and against us (which I highly doubt) and it is found than we can bring quite a serious amount of air power to overwhelm your fleet's air group and punish you for such a mistake.

In a fleet to fleet battle deep in the ocean, no doubt you can bring your numbers to bear, but are we that stupid...

The truth is that when the war starts we'll just plug the Gulf for you with our surface fleet and/or missile boats and than will wait for you to come.. while PN submarine fleet gets busy in laying snares for your fleet. With in a few years with the acquisition planned in fighters, surface fleet and submarines, and coastal batteries at the mouth of the Gulf, these capabilities will be comprehensive. Does not matter if and when you induct the next set of carriers.. our sea lanes will remain open from Gulf and it will remain closed to you..that is what matters, all else we cannot care less.

Aewacs with pak can help to some extent. but you have to divide whatever resources you have.
this could be a reason why pak is going in for more awacs. i wondered why pak needs more awacs with such small land/air space to scan

Wow That Champions Trophy Defeat Has Really Gotten To Your Head Poor Guy I Really Feel Sorry For You

View attachment 405215

and ANA???? They Have Already Lost Control of Half Their Country

BLA?????They Are Surrendering In Droves Now

Look At A Map

We Already Drove Away Your Submarine

https://www.dawn.com/news/1297112

isnt it your news agencies that published india is being crushed in 1971

 

[Basel]

we are at home, we have advantage here



thats why IN is going on smarter day by day. Its not easy to maintain security of such vast coasts, thats why we are turning more toward drones


without a decent naval air wing and air defense PN cant withstand IN onslaught.
What does pak has in this area?
Seniors, pls share some info


war time serviceability will definitely be better than before,
what radar does pakistan has to scan entire coast to know from where an enemy fighter is coming.
Aesa of JF will help only in intercepting it once identified. by then work will be done


never mind



eager to know how tactical nukes are used by west navies...

As you have said it, even interested to know pakistani air defense on coasts



i think its not illegal to operate in other countries EEZ. Whats the big deal in it they cant stop it


fair enough


oh please, spare us.
please have those lands. We don't want to have an inch of them



discussed to death.
pls stay on topic pls


1600 kms, are you nuts??
wiki says 240 kms at max

even then first you have to identify the target. How are you planning to??
An aircraft carrier need not come so close to your coast


really??
so why all this bluffing ??



you keep on raising these things
1) JF-17 with AESA + CM-400AKG
2) submarine launched anti ship babur

my questions:
1) how will JF-17 identify its target, if identified how far can it fly over seas. even if reaches such distance to launch CM-400AKG, what are the chances that it survives IN air wing/ SAMs.
2) whats the max range of a submarine launched anti ship missile with PN. I doubt to believe that Submarine launched babur will have 450 kms in anti ship role - please feel free to correct


all these ships are of netherlands royal navy, whats the relevance here??



As pointed by another member, how can a pakistani submarine hide and survive after hitting an indian merchant ship? That too if far away from home?

pls name the mobile coastal battery in pak possession

So, according to you PAF should handle two fronts at same time. On land border you have radars for it, but what about on coast??

though off topic, i would like to tell why India never tried a naval blockade during kargil war.
1) Pakistan disowned its adventure
2) Pakistan lost its face diplomatically internationally, why give them a chance to save


TNW over seas?? what do you want to kill - fishes??


i want to know about coastal batteries. please throw some light
thank you


Aewacs with pak can help to some extent. but you have to divide whatever resources you have.
this could be a reason why pak is going in for more awacs. i wondered why pak needs more awacs with such small land/air space to scan


isnt it your news agencies that published india is being crushed in 1971

USSR had fielded TNWs against USN specially through Tu-22s in case if things go way wrong for them.

 

[kris]

USSR had fielded TNWs against USN specially through Tu-22s in case if things go way wrong for them.

thanks

 

[ghazi768]

Aewacs with pak can help to some extent. but you have to divide whatever resources you have.
this could be a reason why pak is going in for more awacs. i wondered why pak needs more awacs with such small land/air space to scan

You airforce is operating in total 3-4 AWACS, because Indian fan boys have a habit of including future purchases 5-10 years down the line in current analysis therefore if we add DRDO AWACS in testing, it will be 5-6, these are for all of Indian airspace. If these are enough for IAF than 4 PAF AWACS to cover south should be more than enough as well.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Amazing vedio

Incredible rare footage AND details of India,s naval base in Oman with listening post across to Gwadar

Indian Navy has some incredible hardware including it appears dedicated satalites for Navy ship comminucation

ENJOY tell us what you think

Sure they're a threat. Like it was a threat to Pakistan after mumbai 2008 and URI 2016. More indian hot air and retarded delusional fantasies. Apart from spewing vitriol on the net, the indians can't do nothing. So let them keep keep talking. It's what they're best at.

 

[kris]

You airforce is operating in total 3-4 AWACS, because Indian fan boys have a habit of including future purchases 5-10 years down the line in current analysis therefore if we add DRDO AWACS in testing, it will be 5-6, these are for all of Indian airspace. If these are enough for IAF than 4 PAF AWACS to cover south should be more than enough as well.

may be because sumk30i itself is a mini aewacs, Pakistan doesn't have that kind of weaponry.
you are boasting too much.
4 awacs is more than enough for pak, but nothing wrong to have more as they are force multipliers