Indian Muslims are out to prove their loyalty once again.

[Joe Shearer]

Islam is as political as it is an individual. Everyone even non-muslims know this.

What happens when two nations with an equal number of Muslims fight? What you have explained is an absurdity. More or less on the lines of the Malaysia-Indonesia konfrontasi.

 

[Peshwa]

Absolute scum. Forget Pakistan for a moment. These Indian Muslims don't even stand for their Kashmiri brothers. They don't have unity among themselves. So disgusting and despicable.
.

Do you stand arm in arm with those Pakistani Pashtuns that want the Pushtun dominated areas South of the Durand line to go to Afghanistan?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Since you replied to my comment inside it.. if that is the rt way to put it... hence i am replying by copying ur comments below and underlining them.
Post # 196:
I was VERY specific. I took your example and applied it to myself, and found it seriously defective. How much more specificity did you hope for?

Yes, you are correct. U did answer me straight by the following comment

Post # 175:
Brilliant effort.
I tried to apply this formula and failed. Whether I am among a crowd of Pakistanis, or a crowd of Indians, my opinions don't change. I haven't found any others who change their opinions the way you say either. It seems that you live in an unreal land of dreams. I suggest you go back to sleep.

Now, this above message was in response to my comment/post # 75 of this thread. Read my post 75 again and see how your comment above answers any of the comments raised by myself.

Now to the second part of your answer in post 196:
And changing your mind is not an option? You are eternally right, and anyone who challenges your opinion is eternally wrong?
If you read my post # 75 and other post in this thread then you would see that i clearly said indian muslims are patriots where as many posts on this thread and in other threads claim otherwise...which is essentially not true. I even commended / praised indians loyalty to their region or to their countrymen.
In my other posts on this thread i have also said many times that both countries do mischief, both cause harm and injury and both are equally to be blamed. You still think I am narrow minded and not willing to change my opinions.
For your satisfaction let me say it again.... Your hurt can not be of higher magnitude to ours when the scenario is reversed... both countries have caused harm and injury to each other and each other's countrymen. For the sake of discussion lets say that jaishe muhammad was tasked by pak government. lets agree on it provided you are willing to agree what RAW, baloch insurgent puppets and TTP are your puppets.

There is one simple, devastating difference: the Jaish acknowledged its act, and the Jaish has never made a secret of its affiliation to the Pakistan Army, or its protection by the Pakistan administration leading to the defence by China.

In contrast, there has never been a connection between RAW and the TTP; the connection between RAW and Baloch insurgents is dependent on New Delhi helping the separatists travel around by giving them travelling papers.

I leave you and other rational Pakistanis to answer this: are these positions equivalent?

Point is.... based upon the above assumption it was our turn to catch u unguarded and u got hurt. Why cry a river as we are just returning the favor.

Now we can go round and round in circle discussing it and arguing over it. Point remains the same i.e. we both need to show restraint, solve our core issues and then think of proceeding in future with each other as neighbors who have to bear each other. You can not expect to subdue us, coerce us and hoodwink us into looking at your narrative only. You may be true 50% or lets say 60% at times but the same holds true for us too.

As always, i pray that sanity prevails. Good day sir

Well it is called Hindustan and not Islamistan for a reason.

It is called Hindustan by a segment of north Indians and by Pakistanis. The etymology, since you seem to be unaware of it, stems from 'Hindu' being used by Persians as a term for Indians in general; the religious connotation came about when westerners, never Indians, groped around for a term to describe those who were there in the 9th and 10th centuries, before a fresh wave of Islamic invasions began.

That is the reason.

It was called Hindustan even when Muslim rulers ruled the Sultanate in Delhi, or the Mughal Empire, also in Delhi.

And let's not kid ourselves .... The BJP isn't a secular party and India's recent past has confirmed India is a lot more Hindu than secular .

Right.

Now go and calculate for yourself how many years out of the past 70 the BJP has been in power.

 

[ghazi768]

There is one simple, devastating difference: the Jaish acknowledged its act,

where did jaish acknowledged? can you provide a link to that please.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Nobody stopping that, not in our town. If you feel so strongly about it, come down and do it yourself, as a token of penitence.

To be honest I don't want that meat to used in my own funeral , So i will let our Indian Muslim Brathern to do the job .

 

[AsifIjaz]

There is one simple, devastating difference: the Jaish acknowledged its act, and the Jaish has never made a secret of its affiliation to the Pakistan Army, or its protection by the Pakistan administration leading to the defence by China.

In contrast, there has never been a connection between RAW and the TTP; the connection between RAW and Baloch insurgents is dependent on New Delhi helping the separatists travel around by giving them travelling papers.

I leave you and other rational Pakistanis to answer this: are these positions equivalent?
.

Well, that is exactly what was my point earlier. You accept your facts and proofs and we accept ours. You do not accept our dossiers given to UN and west regarding indian offices near afghan boundary and interference in FATA now KPK, our proof given for samjhota express, inciting Balochistan insurgency and many more incidences
and We don't accept your proof for mumbai or parliment and numerous other attacks. It takes 2 to tango.

You said Jaish acknowledged the attacks well so did the TTP acknowledge the attacks across Pakistan. So where do we go from here? are we going to go round in circle and start that blame game, threatening remarks, border skirmishes etc... is that all we people of 2 gr8 nations can do...... round after round after round.

Hence my point, we both should sit down, swallow our pride for the sake of the poor soldiers on the borders and innocents beings killed across the 2 countries. Lets sit down to resolve issues, talk, propose something, disagree, argue and counter argue and keep on doing this till we both come to a mutually acceptable solution and then we may live with hatred in heart but peace at borders. For this to happen media of both nations should be under strict orders to not air anything maligning or inciting hatred.

Now trust me the above is not a d**k measuring contest... I aint that type. we have lost family in zarb-e-azb in KPK, I have lost friends in cities and i have buried loved ones without seeing them as their bodies were stitched for burials... Just like you, i too am hurt beyond belief but i ain't deluded to not realize that a war will kill many more, will make many more orphans and will force many into oblivion. I will have my peace when these egos are set aside and the stupidity stops for good.

As always i pray that sanity prevails. Good day sir.

 

[pakistanitarzan]

No, in Pakistan, you would not get run over by a mob for eating beef. And you thanked someone who liked ham sandwiches. But he was large-hearted and respected other religions. Unlike you.

Stating the obvious doesnt mean disrespecting other relegion. Stop assuming things about me.

 

[scorpionx]

Sir there is blowing air from your mouth and then there is a proper way to chant this what we call as chandi path...to learn the correct pronunciations you need a learned person who is available in one community only...playing audio recordings is next to useless...and one needs navakshari mantra intitition to even chant this holy text...pronunciation and navakshari both must for chandi path...if you are non brahmin you wont be able to get the initiation at least in the south that is the case...dont know about north india...i challenge any non brahmin in india to learn say"sri rudram" and try to worship shiva that way...its very very hard only some centers like the sai foundation is teaching it to non brahmins...no sir it is not sarcastic comment...just stating the truth.

Sir just because a holy text like lalitha sahasranamam and vishnu sahasranamam books are available in every street corner doesnt mean the chanter will get full benefit from it...only one community knows how to even correctly pronounce it...99% of people who learn from audio recordings from publishers like giri etc are chanting it wrong...in fact lalitha sahsranamam and vishnu sahasranamam are the two most murdered holy texts on this planet from a chanting perspective...with faulty pronunciations the sound changes and so does the meaning...the formulae for correct pronunciation(yes there is a formulae for even chanting) is not being taught to non brahmins....so they go a temple where the priest does lalitha sahasranama archa to the goddess...but most people cant do it in home as they dont know how to do it correctly....in top of that they say if you chant inccorrectly you will be punished...so they also actively discourage new chanters from even trying to learn this powerful texts and they also wont teach you the correct version.

This is not what you wrote in your post. As far as rest is concerned, preserving thousands of years of sanctity within a small community is not unique to Hinduism only. Also, this(Karma Kanda) is a very very small part of Hinduism as a whole. There are thousands of other branches as well which is open to all castes and gender to practise.

That explains much.

If you are the progeny of Mujahideen and Ghazis, you don't automatically become distinguished. Presumably it is this inadequacy that brings out all the impotent poison.



Don't confuse the discussion by talking sense.



Thank you for clarifying that you are not Kashmiri, and clearing up the reason for the posts you made.

I am just cursing Nilgiri. Dragged me into this and then went to sleep. Nitey Nite!! I mean, seriously? @Nilgiri

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is not what you wrote in your post. As far as rest is concerned, preserving thousands of years of sanctity within a small community is not unique to Hinduism only. Also, this(Karma Kanda) is a very very small part of Hinduism as a whole. There are thousands of other branches as well which is open to all castes and gender to practise.


I am just cursing Nilgiri. Dragged me into this and then went to sleep. Nitey Nite!! I mean, seriously? @Nilgiri

There are times when I think being boiled alive is too good for him.

 

[IFB]

This is not what you wrote in your post. As far as rest is concerned, preserving thousands of years of sanctity within a small community is not unique to Hinduism only. Also, this(Karma Kanda) is a very very small part of Hinduism as a whole. There are thousands of other branches as well which is open to all castes and gender to practise.
[/USER]

Quite the opposite is happening actually...the pronunciation has detoriated to such an extent...even many brahmins now dont pronunce even sahasranamams correctly...which i see almost daily in places in visit...fortunately after repeated attempts i finally found one brahmin guru who was ready to teach me chanting and i do train under him...vedas can be chanted by anyone ...its in the vedas itself...once you get the inner fire to chant your holy texts it says you become a brahmin by "guna"...even if you are born a brahmin but you dont chant your holy texts (there are many such people) you are shudra by guna vedas say...they twist and turn things to their advantage shunning everyone else except their community...there are many places where vedas say women can chant vedas...but they twist the fact and say women cant chant vedas...example devi who is herself a women and these bigots have the nerve to say women cant chant devi mahathmiyam as shakthas consider it to be equal to rig,yajur and sama veda...and according to them vedas is a no go area for women (which again is BS) what bull shit logic is that.

 

[Clutch]

What happens when two nations with an equal number of Muslims fight?

---> If it's two Muslim nations... Then it should be avoided since it is Haram to kill another Muslim. But if it is based upon injustice of one versus the other, the ones fighting for a just cause will be the ones in the right.

----> If it is two non-muslims countries fighting with a Muslim minority in each... Then Muslims of both non-muslims are forbidden from participating. The fight between non-muslims nations is not in guidance or cause of Allah.

In contrast, there has never been a connection between RAW and the TTP; the connection between RAW and Baloch insurgents is dependent on New Delhi helping the separatists travel around by giving t

That is from an Indian perspective.
From the Pakistani perspective it's it's the opposite. India is a Terrorist nation while Kashmiris only get moral support from Pakistan.

Baloch and other Pakistani are Muslim and Islam....bhai-bhai. Kashmiri and India are Muslim versus Hindu.

 

[Joe Shearer]

---> If it's two Muslim nations... Then it should be avoided since it is Haram to kill another Muslim. But if it is based upon injustice of one versus the other, the ones fighting for a just cause will be the ones in the right.

----> If it is two non-muslims countries fighting with a Muslim minority in each... Then Muslims of both non-muslims are forbidden from participating. The fight between non-muslims nations is not in guidance or cause of Allah.



That is from an Indian perspective.
From the Pakistani perspective it's it's the opposite. India is a Terrorist nation while Kashmiris only get moral support from Pakistan.

Baloch and other Pakistani are Muslim and Islam....bhai-bhai. Kashmiri and India are Muslim versus Hindu.

That's an Islamist perspective. That's precisely why India will never let go of Kashmir.

 

[Kao Boy]

Those Muslims belongs to a Nation who has reached Mars and next is Moon, deployed record number of satellites by ISRO and is top five race for Space exploration agency. They are proud Muslims unlike............

 

[Vapnope]

I don't understand what our problem is with Indian Muslims?
Pakistan is for Pakistanis as India is for Indians. We have Pakistani Hindus, Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians just like India has Muslims, Sikh, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and people of other faiths. Pakistan isn't Makkah so that it is binding on every muslim to respect it. Indian muslims are loyal to India as Pakistani Hindus are to Pakistan.
Just because we define Pakistan on religious terms doesn't mean Indian muslims will respect Pakistan.

 

[Verve]

Slavery is destiny of these Congressi Mullah followers who didn't support the creation of Pakistan. They were weak then and they are weaker now.