Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir?

[Areesh]

LOL..comparing LCH with Cheetah?? Noob Attempt.

It was answer to your post genius. It was answer to your question "Kya ukhad liya???

I just told you kai kiya ukhada hum nai. I never compared the two.

 

[GR!FF!N]

It was answer to your post genius. It was answer to your question "Kya ukhad liya???

I just told you kai kiya ukhada hum nai. I never compared the two.

I compared camo,not role or capability.and yes,we lost 2 helos in 30 years due to ground fire in Siachen,next to "nil" I'd say.

so yes,Kya ukhad liya??

 

[Areesh]

I compared camo,not role or capability.and yes,we lost 2 helos in 30 years due to ground fire in Siachen,next to "nil" I'd say.

so yes,Kya ukhad liya??

And how many Pakistan lose to hostile fire in the same sector?

So again hum nai to ukhada jub bhi hamari side aaya. Tumhain feel nahi ho raha woh alag baat hai.

Pakistan will run out of its hanzas, manpads, manpower before we run out of Rudra's or LCH's. Thats the beauty of homemade. Quantity vs Quality.

Lol as per Wiki Pakistan has 1650 Anza Mk-II that were produced between 1994-2012.

Run out of Anzas

 

[GR!FF!N]

And how many Pakistan lose to hostile fire in the same sector?

So again hum nai to ukhada jub bhi hamari side aaya. Tumhain feel nahi ho raha woh alag baat hai.

To lose Helos,Pakistan has to be present in the Siachen first.

Siachen is under control of India,that is why we are seeing Pakistan is whining about Siachen every now and then.lets not discuss as it is complete off topic.you can easily access the info about Siachen war.

 

[Basel]

Those helis can be huge problem if PA did not take that threat seriously, PA can easily handle those threats but it will need special attention and allocation of required resources. The key will be early detection then engagement before it can launch its weapons. Currently available MANPADS can hit targets up to 8km.

 

[Areesh]

To lose Helos,Pakistan has to be present in the Siachen first.

Siachen is under control of India,that is why we are seeing Pakistan is whining about Siachen every now and then.lets not discuss as it is complete off topic.you can easily access the info about Siachen war.

I know you fools take pride in occupying that frozen wasteland. But still how many of our helis you shot down anywhere in that sector? Along Saltoro mountains? Anywhere?

As said before. Ukhada to hai hum nai. Tumhain feel nahi hota.

 

[Blue Marlin]

@Blue Marlin

Some members here are comparing LCH with Apache,Z-10 and such which is incorrect.

LCH is a light gunship designed for IA's criteria,one of which is Operating in the high altitude and extreme cold environment.Most Gunship has similar specs on paper,but when it comes to performance,most fails.That is why LCH gets rigorously tested in both extremely hot and cold areas.

About Siachen,I wonder if any helicopter at all could fly there when weather is adverse and all.But thats the benefit India is having right now,Pakistan is nowhere near Siachen.So I don't think we should bring a War scenario there.But even then,Both LCH and Rudra has capability to engage there..

What significant to discuss here is the capability of Rudra,Armed Variant of Dhruv.Dhruv is designed to carry out duty in Siachen like situation with ease.so,it is expected Rudra to carry out High Altitude Duty without any problem at all.IAF ordered 12 of these along with 70 which IA ordered.

Hi

Sorry for the late reply.
you have fallen short on your words, here you said that the rudra would be operate in siachin. this is incorrect. the service ceiling is just above 6000 meters which is a typical height of helicopter of that class. to be honest im not to keen to the rudra. its basically a modified hal dhruv. but thats does not mean its not a good helicopter. it would make a good assault helicopter. it is good in providing fire and then deploy ground troops. which is what the mil24 does. mil 24 is in a league of it own. similar to that of the z-9wa (shown below) now in regards to numbers, i was told that the army and the airforce ordered a combined number which amounted to 76 and 20 for the navy

the lca however is a different situation. that is able to operate in the siachin glacier. this is because is was designed to do so. the hal rudra wasn't. but if you read my previous post carefully, it mentions china's/pakistan's answer to the lch. a z10 variant with more powerful engines and an increased payload. but i forgot to mention they will be some rotor design changes.

below is a picture of a hal lch during hot and high altitude testing

below is a picture of the z-10, it is important to notice its service ceiling is only 100 meters lower than that of the lch
and the z10 is is less power full than the lch.

 

[GR!FF!N]

I know you fools take pride in occupying that frozen wasteland. But still how many of our helis you shot down anywhere in that sector? Along Saltoro mountains? Anywhere?

As said before. Ukhada to hai hum nai. Tumhain feel nahi hota.

As I said,Pakistan is nowhere near Soltoro Ridge.They control regions west of Soltoro Ridge.So,as I said,Pakistan has to be present to shoot down their helos.We laid our hands on Your SSG,result..Movie "300"s special scenes.

 

[GR!FF!N]

here you said that the rudra would be operate in siachin. this is incorrect. the service ceiling is just above 6000 meters which is a typical height of helicopter of that class. to be honest im not to keen to the rudra. its basically a modified hal dhruv. but thats does not mean its not a good helicopter. it would make a good assault helicopter. it is good in providing fire and then deploy ground troops.

actually,Dhruv was designed to operate in High Altitudes like Siachen.Even though Rudra is not dedicated helicopter,it can easily operate in Siachen.

below is a picture of the z-10, it is important to notice its service ceiling is only 100 meters lower than that of the lch
and the z10 is is less power full than the lch.

you're measuring only the specs on paper.did Z-10 ever conducted any rigorous testing in such height and cold weather??I bet not.On paper,Mi-35 has max operating altitude around 5 km.But IAF never used Mi-25/35 during Kargil War and resorted to use Mi-17 tells the tale.

one example..In the lower ridges of Tololing was only 4590m high,an altitude Mi-25/35 can easily operate in paper,right??yet,Mi-17 was used as gunship.

 

[Shinigami]

A black painted LCH flying in the white snowy valleys of siachin. This is something called camouflage by indian definition.

lets hope the indian designers dont discover white paint

 

[Blue Marlin]

actually,Dhruv was designed to operate in High Altitudes like Siachen.Even though Rudra is not dedicated helicopter,it can easily operate in Siachen.

can you provide a source to validate your claim?

you're measuring only the specs on paper.did Z-10 ever conducted any rigorous testing in such height and cold weather??I bet not.On paper,Mi-35 has max operating altitude around 5 km.But IAF never used Mi-25/35 during Kargil War and resorted to use Mi-17 tells the tale.

regarding the z-10 there are 3 in pakistan undergoing testing. and i would guarantee the testing program would include high altitude testing. yes iaf did use mi-17's during the kargill war. which i assume is for transporting troops to inaccessible areas that cant be reached by foot/road.

one example..In the lower ridges of Tololing was only 4590m high,an altitude Mi-25/35 can easily operate in paper,right??yet,Mi-17 was used as gunship.

i dont know in-depth about the kargil war. but based on the details in the link, the mil-35 were based in pathakot, which is near kashmir but not near kargil. but where as srinagar and leh is near kargil and were used and mil-17 were used stationed and used. also srinagar based mig-21's which were used in the kargil war and some were lost as well as mil-17's. to anza manpads.

Scramble

 

[Jai Bharat]

Hi

Sorry for the late reply.
you have fallen short on your words, here you said that the rudra would be operate in siachin. this is incorrect. the service ceiling is just above 6000 meters which is a typical height of helicopter of that class. to be honest im not to keen to the rudra. its basically a modified hal dhruv. but thats does not mean its not a good helicopter. it would make a good assault helicopter. it is good in providing fire and then deploy ground troops. which is what the mil24 does. mil 24 is in a league of it own. similar to that of the z-9wa (shown below) now in regards to numbers, i was told that the army and the airforce ordered a combined number which amounted to 76 and 20 for the navy
View attachment 266639

the lca however is a different situation. that is able to operate in the siachin glacier. this is because is was designed to do so. the hal rudra wasn't. but if you read my previous post carefully, it mentions china's/pakistan's answer to the lch. a z10 variant with more powerful engines and an increased payload. but i forgot to mention they will be some rotor design changes.

below is a picture of a hal lch during hot and high altitude testing
View attachment 266640

below is a picture of the z-10, it is important to notice its service ceiling is only 100 meters lower than that of the lch
and the z10 is is less power full than the lch.
View attachment 266641

Service ceiling without understanding other metrics is a completely useless analysis. There is a reason the Pakis went for Mi-35 rather than the Z-10 which was being heavily pushed by the Chinese. The ROC (Rate of Climb) is atrocious for the Z-10, and only slightly better for the Mi-35.

Edit: Also apparent is the useful payload. The Mi-35 was designed for close air support to ground troops and the Z-10 was built to break up heavy armour formations. Neither of them are really designed for high-altitude combat, they have other advantages though in regular altitude combat, but not for mountainous regions.

 

[HariPrasad]

With around 200 LCH and 61 Apaches( 22 for airforce+39 for army), India will have an awesome fleet of gunships. 250+ gunships for any army is a huge huge advantage.

It will be a fun to chase those intruders who will try to outpace chopper by trying to escape. Poor rate get long bullet in their body and will get buried in Himalayan snow. poor guys.

AND by limited war we have the biggest example 1999 KARGIL in which you lost your men misserbily and ALL OUT WAR example for us is 1971 so to avoid any such events PAK has nukes as a nuetraliser to the option for the all out war and to avoid limited war looses you still don't have anything ......

We wipped out your northern light infantry and you had the nukes in 1999. Use it only once. We shall not left you capable to use it once again in future.

1766hp against the current wz9 engines which are at 1350hp and more powerful than the lch which is at 1420hp. also the engine upgrade is not the only thing the weapons pylons will be enlarged to hold 16 atom's similar to that of a apache.

Do you know that LCH engine is going to be updated with 20% more power and the same is going to used in LUH also?

well pakistan is at a disadvantage when it comes to siachin.

now lets get one thing straight here. apaches are not made for high altitude warfare.
I'm saying this because a lot of members are bringing in the apache where its not relevant.

the lch is made around the concept of high altitude warfare. this was after the argil war, where the lch was born.

it is a problem for pakistan and a threat, now theres 2 gun ships available here.
lets start with the z10. now the z10 service ceiling is 6400 meters as compared to the lc's service selling of 6500 meters. also its worth noting that these figures are public and most likely incorrect. also the lch engines are more powerful. this leaves the z-10 at a disadvantage against the lch. now upon further research i found that the z10 will incorporate the wz16 engine which is rated at 1766hp against the current wz9 engines which are at 1350hp and more powerful than the lch which is at 1420hp. also the engine upgrade is not the only thing the weapons pylons will be enlarged to hold 16 atom's similar to that of a apache.

now the ah-z viper.
this is an interesting one because it capabilities are not yet known in high altitude environments. but upon some reading i found this quote quite interesting and yet have another meaning to it.

The sale is intended to support Pakistan's counterterrorism and counterinsurgency operations with a precision-strike, enhanced-survivability aircraft that can operate at high-altitudes, according to DSCA's
source:State Dept. OKs $952M Pakistan Helo Deal

now this means that the viper is very much capable of operating in high altitudes, and because it too can hold 16 missiles. but the low numbers being acquired does not justify it use in siachen.

to conclude i think india has the advantage, for now but in the future china will provide a solution, that is already in progress. but it is dependent on the speed of development and induction of the lch. also it worth noting that the indian lch too is able to hold 16 atgm's (lahat)

Indian lch
View attachment 266524
American apache
View attachment 266548

Chinese z-10 View attachment 266525

American ah-z Viper
View attachment 266526

Very good analysis.

Hi

Sorry for the late reply.
you have fallen short on your words, here you said that the rudra would be operate in siachin. this is incorrect. the service ceiling is just above 6000 meters which is a typical height of helicopter of that class. to be honest im not to keen to the rudra. its basically a modified hal dhruv. but thats does not mean its not a good helicopter. it would make a good assault helicopter. it is good in providing fire and then deploy ground troops. which is what the mil24 does. mil 24 is in a league of it own. similar to that of the z-9wa (shown below) now in regards to numbers, i was told that the army and the airforce ordered a combined number which amounted to 76 and 20 for the navy
View attachment 266639

the lca however is a different situation. that is able to operate in the siachin glacier. this is because is was designed to do so. the hal rudra wasn't. but if you read my previous post carefully, it mentions china's/pakistan's answer to the lch. a z10 variant with more powerful engines and an increased payload. but i forgot to mention they will be some rotor design changes.

below is a picture of a hal lch during hot and high altitude testing
View attachment 266640

below is a picture of the z-10, it is important to notice its service ceiling is only 100 meters lower than that of the lch
and the z10 is is less power full than the lch.
View attachment 266641

And what is the weight of Z 10.As name suggest, LCH is a light weight CHopper packing a big power punch.

Service ceiling without understanding other metrics is a completely useless analysis. There is a reason the Pakis went for Mi-35 rather than the Z-10 which was being heavily pushed by the Chinese. The ROC (Rate of Climb) is atrocious for the Z-10, and only slightly better for the Mi-35.

Edit: Also apparent is the useful payload. The Mi-35 was designed for close air support to ground troops and the Z-10 was built to break up heavy armour formations. Neither of them are really designed for high-altitude combat, they have other advantages though in regular altitude combat, but not for mountainous regions.

Well come. Suswagatam.

It seems that Forum get one knowledgeable member.

 

[Pindi Boy]

hehehe.......... yes because your tiny and incompetent army will be wiped out way before during the war trust me



yes you people make nukes to fires on yourselves, nsra

Kido ask Some older one to tell you about Nasr

 

[Assange]

please go ask your defense experts most of your army and i m saying around 65% to 70% is on the western border against us and secondly Kargil yes you still have that but at what price think of that..... you lost so much that you still holding kargil can't be declared a victory either 3rd i did admit that we lost 1971 and to avoid such events we have Nukes as nuetralisers now

See you itself accepting that only 65% to 70% of Indian is deployed in western front but on your side nearly 97% of your army is deployed in eastern front except for now because you are conducting some operations on your western front....Now equate it you will have nearly same number of men on both sides....

Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chk this link out...especially the casualty column India lost around 530 soldiers on its side...and Pakistani lost around 450 on its side...You should also note that advantage of surprise was on Pakistani side...This battle was an uphill battle for Indian forces still they managed to capture with 530 casualties...now Pakistani forces lost 450 on its side even though they had the advantage of terrain...Even with such an advantage Pakistani lost 450 is something that show their level of engagement or professionalism..... and NOTE for you man Indian flag is still flying in Kargil so that means India won that battle and Pakistan lost it...Your own commanders called it as a debacle.....

I am not going to speak about 1971 or Pakistan's nuclear arsenal because we get a press statement from your government every week...