Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir?

[Blue Marlin]

dont worry they have DSI tech and also the mighty anza

what is it with you and dsi's?
so your back to trolling, well your gonna be banned quiet soon then.
useful posts would be much appreciated

 

[desimorty]

Jatt Saib I totally understand. The base or bunker is the last place you want to be when gunships come calling. Unless they have been deeply built underground, they will be blown to high heaven by attack choppers. This is what they excel at i.e. the destruction of less mobile or stationary targets. Pakistan does have 150 posts there, some of which are fluid. I didn't say that the best way of dealing with attack helicopters is a shoulder mounted missile. What I did write about was portable radars that are networked with air-defence systems, one being the RBS-70. That is the greatest danger to attack helicopters bar fixed winged aircraft. Their lack of speed and manoeuvring ability makes them ideal targets for such systems. These portable systems have the ability to track and engage the attack helicopters beyond the range of their own target acquisition radars.
These systems are the paramount threat and this is coming out of the mouths of the US's own Apache pilots, who I spoke to. So no offence but I'll take the words of the professionals over other posters.
The Indian airforce won't achieve air superiority either, thus letting its gunships run riot. This has been discussed many times on here and I don't wish go off-topic.


Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 16

I know VSHORAD. Summarize it as a quick reaction short range missile. Yes. I;m glad were in agreement no? You are also correct to assume the Indians will not achieve overwhelmingly air superiority but air superiority is their doctrine!, and they will get some airspace. This is well known and has happened in previous wars. Yes PAF has better chance than the PLAAF to defend against India but its air denial capability will only shrink. The first strike will determine how far the IAF advances but thats off topic. So the goal is to reduce damage inflicted by future threats like LCH, APACHE and other threats from the air including drones, both mini, and large as well as some protection from IRON bombs.
You want to deal with India's air superiority tactic, than you need a measure of defensive offensive weapons and tactics.
So to add to all this, lets see what the source of the problem is.
Air denial will be the tactic the PAF uses, and will determine the IAF air superiority achieved. Another nation to use air denial tactic is China. PLAAF uses a range of SAM sites short range and long range to reduce the workload for the birds. Making the birds more secure and more readily available.
So the PAF should follow the PLAAF example and upgrade its air defence with medium and long range SAMs. Purchase from China maynot be possible with out Russian approval. Pakistan will either need to approach Europe, America or Russia.
So how do PAF birds stack up against India? Well the numbers are pretty good. All of India fighters don't face Pakistan, something like 40% of IAF fighters are actually near the western border. where as PAF is facing the Indian side. But the proximity to the Indian border means airfields are under threat from cruise missiles and long range weapons. You want to protect your airfields, you'll need early warning. AWACS is key. The USAF/USN has hundreds of AWACS systems even though they only have a few thousand aircraft. Why so many AWACs? Each AWACs increases and aircraft survivability by 3 times or more! I'm not going to explain how, you should know the importance of offensive operations. AWACs will provide the the EW and increase the the PAF capability many folds per squadron. Each squadron should have 1 AWACs systems. The IAF is doing this and so should the PAF.
The Indian army has had to deal with a lot of Cobras in PA service. What was their answer? Tunguska AD system. An offensive weapons system. PA needs to follow this example.
The rest of it is funds and vision. My 2 cents.

 

[waz]

waz, when we are discussing LCH which is designed to operate at high altitude and remote areas usually mountainous, shooting a combat helicopter is only possible when it comes into the range of the portable SAM. Now looking at the vast land of unmanned land of the Kashmir and the Siachin, either the Sam operator is good on Luck to get in range of the chopper or his portable radar, gives him high range. You have mentioned RBS-70 and networked with air defense system, but I the air defense systems if you mean with the Ground Radar, then its difficult to be deployed in extreme mountaneous terrain and even if they are deployed, the natural slopes, hills, mountains are the barriers they have to be faced to detect the helicopter who is can fly at the high altitute but now far way from the ground.
Now coming up with the RBS-70 or the anza portable sam, the modern combat helicopter have many countermeasures and sensors, which was not present in the chopper which was targetted during the kargil war. Namely other than chaffs, flares, MAWS, LWS, RWS, and hardkill laser based DIRCM and LCH is getting them also, its not final which but Russian, French, Israeili and Sweedish are bidding.

How effective is the RBS-70 laser guided sam or the Anza against DIRCM or softkill weapons respectfully, but thinking that LCH is no threat and could be handled with portable sam and network radars is not a good idea. LCH is build with the past experience of the Kargil, to fulfil Indian Armed force, and definitely gives IA an edge over the adversaries.

Thanks
@Blue Marlin

The ranges of these portable systems are the same as and in many cases exceed attacking helicopters .e. g the RBS-70 has the same range as the Apache Longbow radar i.e. 8km. As for deployment, Pakistan has built extensive paths and roads to the posts. You have to remember Pakistan is on the lower point of the glacier.
As for the counter measures, this is something I also put to the Apache pilots with my discussions with them. They stated that it is very tough when facing such systems, as they change and evolve so fast that it is hard to deploy effective counter measures to them. Many of the latest versions can avoid chaffs, flairs andare anti jamming so negating directional infraed counter measures. Look at the evolution of the Chinese FN-6 to the FN-16. The base FN-6 has downed helicopters and planes in Syria.
The RBS-70 hasn't stood stationary either, its evolved. The Bolide is resistant to counter measures.
Again brining up what the Apache pilots told me, counter measures really are the last port of call. You don't want to be put in that position.
Yes the LCH has been built with Kargil in mind and yes it does give an edge. No one is denying that. Is it a game changer, or a sure fire winner on the battlefield, that's highly debatable.

 

[zebra7]

I know VSHORAD. Summarize it as a quick reaction short range missile. Yes. I;m glad were in agreement no? You are also correct to assume the Indians will not achieve overwhelmingly air superiority but air superiority is their doctrine!, and they will get some airspace. This is well known and has happened in previous wars. Yes PAF has better chance than the PLAAF to defend against India but its air denial capability will only shrink. The first strike will determine how far the IAF advances but thats off topic. So the goal is to reduce damage inflicted by future threats like LCH, APACHE and other threats from the air including drones, both mini, and large as well as some protection from IRON bombs.

Jatt Sahab first LCH won't be operating inside Pakistan's area, instead flying in Indian region and supporting the ground troops near border with its fire powers during mission. In case of Apache which is dedicated heavy gunship won't be deployed in the Kashmir or the Siachin, instead the plains of Punjab and Rajasthan against the armored threat. @waz is right that the greatest threat to the Apache is from the portable shoulder fired sam because, they could be attacked from any direction, say from below, when Apache is flying in doing operation inside the enemy territory, where the number of such sam threat would be more, which won't give the pilot enough time to take evasive maneuver. Armed Rudra would be flying with the Indian Armored onslaught strike.

You want to deal with India's air superiority tactic, than you need a measure of defensive offensive weapons and tactics.

Air superiority is not achieved with the gunships, and combat hellicopter, but with the air superiority fighter planes, but they are meant to support the Army, but before that SEAD, and DEAD ensures the removal of long range sam threats.

Air denial will be the tactic the PAF uses, and will determine the IAF air superiority achieved. Another nation to use air denial tactic is China. PLAAF uses a range of SAM sites short range and long range to reduce the workload for the birds. Making the birds more secure and more readily available.
So the PAF should follow the PLAAF example and upgrade its air defence with medium and long range SAMs. Purchase from China maynot be possible with out Russian approval. Pakistan will either need to approach Europe, America or Russia.

Off-topic but chinese AD is different what you are tying to project here.

So how do PAF birds stack up against India? Well the numbers are pretty good. All of India fighters don't face Pakistan, something like 40% of IAF fighters are actually near the western border. where as PAF is facing the Indian side. But the proximity to the Indian border means airfields are under threat from cruise missiles and long range weapons. You want to protect your airfields, you'll need early warning. AWACS is key. The USAF/USN has hundreds of AWACS systems even though they only have a few thousand aircraft. Why so many AWACs? Each AWACs increases and aircraft survivability by 3 times or more! I'm not going to explain how, you should know the importance of offensive operations. AWACs will provide the the EW and increase the the PAF capability many folds per squadron. Each squadron should have 1 AWACs systems. The IAF is doing this and so should the PAF.
The Indian army has had to deal with a lot of Cobras in PA service. What was their answer? Tunguska AD system. An offensive weapons system. PA needs to follow this example.

Its not Awaac instead low altitute radars which is needed, nor IA or IAF is going to throw away its hellis on the tactics you are making in your endevour..

 

[waz]

I know VSHORAD. Summarize it as a quick reaction short range missile. Yes. I;m glad were in agreement no? You are also correct to assume the Indians will not achieve overwhelmingly air superiority but air superiority is their doctrine!, and they will get some airspace. This is well known and has happened in previous wars. Yes PAF has better chance than the PLAAF to defend against India but its air denial capability will only shrink. The first strike will determine how far the IAF advances but thats off topic. So the goal is to reduce damage inflicted by future threats like LCH, APACHE and other threats from the air including drones, both mini, and large as well as some protection from IRON bombs.
You want to deal with India's air superiority tactic, than you need a measure of defensive offensive weapons and tactics.
So to add to all this, lets see what the source of the problem is.
Air denial will be the tactic the PAF uses, and will determine the IAF air superiority achieved. Another nation to use air denial tactic is China. PLAAF uses a range of SAM sites short range and long range to reduce the workload for the birds. Making the birds more secure and more readily available.
So the PAF should follow the PLAAF example and upgrade its air defence with medium and long range SAMs. Purchase from China maynot be possible with out Russian approval. Pakistan will either need to approach Europe, America or Russia.
So how do PAF birds stack up against India? Well the numbers are pretty good. All of India fighters don't face Pakistan, something like 40% of IAF fighters are actually near the western border. where as PAF is facing the Indian side. But the proximity to the Indian border means airfields are under threat from cruise missiles and long range weapons. You want to protect your airfields, you'll need early warning. AWACS is key. The USAF/USN has hundreds of AWACS systems even though they only have a few thousand aircraft. Why so many AWACs? Each AWACs increases and aircraft survivability by 3 times or more! I'm not going to explain how, you should know the importance of offensive operations. AWACs will provide the the EW and increase the the PAF capability many folds per squadron. Each squadron should have 1 AWACs systems. The IAF is doing this and so should the PAF.
The Indian army has had to deal with a lot of Cobras in PA service. What was their answer? Tunguska AD system. An offensive weapons system. PA needs to follow this example.
The rest of it is funds and vision. My 2 cents.

Good points.
Pakistan is going about building a very extensive SAM network. Although this will take time. I did post something about its current state from an Indian academic, I posted it early on if you want a read. I'm wondering why you think Pakistan would need to speak to Russia regarding Chinese SAM procurements. Is that because of licensing? The Turks have been talking to the Chinese about SAM acquisitions without the Russians being mentioned.
As for the PAF AWACS coverage I though it was pretty good, especially given the smaller size of Pakistani airspace. There are eight planes, four Saab 2000 Erieye and four Shaanxi ZDK-03 Eagles.

 

[Zarvan]

View attachment 266483


The Indian army, Air Force and the government had a lesson learned during the Kargil Conflict in 1999 when an Indian Mi-17 was shot down by a shoulder fired air defence missile. The Mi-17 was not built to fly at a height of 16000 ft but it was still continuously used by India to attack Pakistani positions in Kargil. After the war ended the need arised to have a dedicated attack helicopter with a capability to fly at high altitudes. In the year 2006, the state owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) announced its plan to develop a dedicated attack helicopter. After intensive design and development, the first helicopter flew on 29 March, 2010, just 4 years after the development work had started.

The helicopter has some stealth features. A semi-stealth design and the new camouflage painting scheme makes the helicopter partially invisible to radar as well as the naked eyes. Engine coating developed by the Indian Institute of Technology, Mumbai (IIT-M) further adds stealth as it reduced the infrared signature. Use of distributed architecture computer increases the data processing speed which makes the helicopter more agile. Its composite rotor blades and the use of armour plates allows it to operate easily in hostile condition under enemy gun fire. Powered by HAL Shakti engines this a 5.5 ton helicopter that can fly at an altitude of 21000 ft with a speed of 290 km/h. It uses a glass cockpit developed by HAL's Mission & Combat System
Research & Design Centre (MCSRDC).

The second helicopter flew on 28 June 2011 and the third prototype flew on 12 November 2014. The 4th prototype is expected to fly in late 2015 or in 2016. Recently the LCH underwent Cold weather trials at Air Force Station in Leh in early 2015. The engine starts were satisfactory in the temperature of -18 °C at 4.1 km altitude. The flights were also carried out to assess high altitude performance and low speed handling. The trials covered engine starts with internal batteries after overnight cold soak at 3 km altitude and 4.1 km altitude. In June 2015 the LCH successfully completed hot weather flight trials at Jodhpur with temperatures ranging from 39° to 49°C. The flight testing covered 'temperature survey of engine bay and hydraulic system', 'assessment of performance', 'handling qualities and loads' at different 'all up weights', 'low speed handling' and 'height-velocity diagram establishment'. The weapon firing trials will be held during the middle of 2016.

Its weapon include 70mm & 80mm multi barrel rockets, a 20mm cannon and DRDO HeliNa anti tank missile with LOAL and LOBL capability. It also has a unique integration of air to air missile to take down enemy helicopters and UAVs which keeps it immune against enemy helicopters.

Its capability to fly at high altitude with full load is the nightmare for enemy soldiers. Initially Air Force has ordered 65 LCHs and Army has ordered 114 helicopters mostly for the deployment against China and also against Pakistan in Kashmir. It will form the backbone for Indian Mountain strike Corp to be raised in next few years.

It will be very much effective against China as it could fly across Himalayas with full load of weapons. Its anti tank capability will be effective against advancing tanks of the Pakistan army. The LCH helicopter became the first attack helicopter to land in Siachen which clearly shows its capability to fight against Pakistan in future war scenario at such an high altitude that to with adverse climate.

With most of its trials except weapon trials completed LCH is expected to enter production in 2017. Weapon trials may not take much time as an attack helicopter does not have a range of weapons like an fighter aircraft. There are also the possibility that the orders for LCH may increase from current 179 to about 300 also including some foreign exports.

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Article written by Aviral Singh exclusively for Defence News.
Lucknow, India
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Well we can get this as answer WZ-19 Light Attack Helicopter

Yes, combat helicopters dog fighting over the skies of Indo-Pakistan will redefine the fundamentals of aviation.

Joke aside I won't be surprised if one day I see Attack helicopters dogfight

well pakistan is at a disadvantage when it comes to siachin.

now lets get one thing straight here. apaches are not made for high altitude warfare.
I'm saying this because a lot of members are bringing in the apache where its not relevant.

the lch is made around the concept of high altitude warfare. this was after the argil war, where the lch was born.

it is a problem for pakistan and a threat, now theres 2 gun ships available here.
lets start with the z10. now the z10 service ceiling is 6400 meters as compared to the lc's service selling of 6500 meters. also its worth noting that these figures are public and most likely incorrect. also the lch engines are more powerful. this leaves the z-10 at a disadvantage against the lch. now upon further research i found that the z10 will incorporate the wz16 engine which is rated at 1766hp against the current wz9 engines which are at 1350hp and more powerful than the lch which is at 1420hp. also the engine upgrade is not the only thing the weapons pylons will be enlarged to hold 16 atom's similar to that of a apache.

now the ah-z viper.
this is an interesting one because it capabilities are not yet known in high altitude environments. but upon some reading i found this quote quite interesting and yet have another meaning to it.

The sale is intended to support Pakistan's counterterrorism and counterinsurgency operations with a precision-strike, enhanced-survivability aircraft that can operate at high-altitudes, according to DSCA's
source:State Dept. OKs $952M Pakistan Helo Deal

now this means that the viper is very much capable of operating in high altitudes, and because it too can hold 16 missiles. but the low numbers being acquired does not justify it use in siachen.

to conclude i think india has the advantage, for now but in the future china will provide a solution, that is already in progress. but it is dependent on the speed of development and induction of the lch. also it worth noting that the indian lch too is able to hold 16 atgm's (lahat)

Indian lch
View attachment 266524
American apache
View attachment 266548

Chinese z-10 View attachment 266525

American ah-z Viper
View attachment 266526

The new squadron of WZ-10 inducted by China has wz 16 engine and lots of other upgradations @Deino @Beast

well pakistan is at a disadvantage when it comes to siachin.

now lets get one thing straight here. apaches are not made for high altitude warfare.
I'm saying this because a lot of members are bringing in the apache where its not relevant.

the lch is made around the concept of high altitude warfare. this was after the argil war, where the lch was born.

it is a problem for pakistan and a threat, now theres 2 gun ships available here.
lets start with the z10. now the z10 service ceiling is 6400 meters as compared to the lc's service selling of 6500 meters. also its worth noting that these figures are public and most likely incorrect. also the lch engines are more powerful. this leaves the z-10 at a disadvantage against the lch. now upon further research i found that the z10 will incorporate the wz16 engine which is rated at 1766hp against the current wz9 engines which are at 1350hp and more powerful than the lch which is at 1420hp. also the engine upgrade is not the only thing the weapons pylons will be enlarged to hold 16 atom's similar to that of a apache.

now the ah-z viper.
this is an interesting one because it capabilities are not yet known in high altitude environments. but upon some reading i found this quote quite interesting and yet have another meaning to it.

The sale is intended to support Pakistan's counterterrorism and counterinsurgency operations with a precision-strike, enhanced-survivability aircraft that can operate at high-altitudes, according to DSCA's
source:State Dept. OKs $952M Pakistan Helo Deal

now this means that the viper is very much capable of operating in high altitudes, and because it too can hold 16 missiles. but the low numbers being acquired does not justify it use in siachen.

to conclude i think india has the advantage, for now but in the future china will provide a solution, that is already in progress. but it is dependent on the speed of development and induction of the lch. also it worth noting that the indian lch too is able to hold 16 atgm's (lahat)

Indian lch
View attachment 266524
American apache
View attachment 266548

Chinese z-10 View attachment 266525

American ah-z Viper
View attachment 266526

The new squadron of WZ-10 inducted by China has wz 16 engine and lots of other upgradations @Deino @Beast

 

[desimorty]

Jatt Sahab first LCH won't be operating inside Pakistan's area, instead flying in Indian region and supporting the ground troops near border with its fire powers during mission. In case of Apache which is dedicated heavy gunship won't be deployed in the Kashmir or the Siachin, instead the plains of Punjab and Rajasthan against the armored threat. @@waz is right that the greatest threat to the Apache is from the portable shoulder fired sam because, they could be attacked from any direction, say from below, when Apache is flying in doing operation inside the enemy territory, where the number of such sam threat would be more, which won't give the pilot enough time to take evasive maneuver. Armed Rudra would be flying with the Indian Armored onslaught strike.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

I know the LCH is designed for high altitudes which is difficult to achieve but a strong requirement for the IA and IAF given their borders. I know what the Apache is for if its even needed. I argue the IAF only require a small number for small COIN operations and large scale western front war.
And i'll say it again. The greatest threat to helicopters is from the air, hence why they only operate in their own air space!
Meaning if you rule the skies, you can use helicopters behind enemy lines or at the lines. If you can use helicopters you can not only resupply your lines you can attack enemy lines. Helicopter crew normally have gunners who react to visual threats like RPG or manpads, and the rest is training. Open the doors, point the gun, and shoot. You take the risk to save lives.

Air superiority is not achieved with the gunships, and combat hellicopter, but with the air superiority fighter planes, but they are meant to support the Army, but before that SEAD, and DEAD ensures the removal of long range sam threats.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

Where you even reading my post?

Off-topic but chinese AD is different what you are tying to project here.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

huh?

Its not Awaac instead low altitute radars which is needed, nor IA or IAF is going to throw away its hellis on the tactics you are making in your endevour..

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

See, your looking at the little picture with out looking into how the bigger picture is.
What good are these low altitude radars?
You think its the low level radars that keep cobras on the Pak side of the border? lol, come on. Helicopters are not going to go where they can be shot down especially by a fighter.


Consider this. Indian troops are converging on Pakistani positions. You see a PAF fighter fly over head. You have wounded men, you need emergency evac. You think you can get air support with out air superiority? The role of the IAF will determine a lot of the IAs logistical support. You think all those Mi-8/17s are going to sit on the tarmac in the event of a war?
See the IAF doesn't see it your way. They want air superiority as far as possible to support the army which is what they have done before even at great cost. They intend to get air superiority via AWACs and lots of fighters stealth or other.
Heres the deal with AWACs. Its both a great defensive and offensive weapon. It can direct fighters or track targets for other missiles. Can accommodate EW role. The use of such is USAF, and I will not argue the merits.

Let me explain. I don't care about the LCH. I only know what this is a helicopter with an attack role which could serve India in the future. Meaning it is a small picture of a larger Indian doctrine, only interesting how it compares to other doctrines // tactics. Thats all. Stop arguing with me.

Good points.
Pakistan is going about building a very extensive SAM network. Although this will take time. I did post something about its current state from an Indian academic, I posted it early on if you want a read. I'm wondering why you think Pakistan would need to speak to Russia regarding Chinese SAM procurements. Is that because of licensing? The Turks have been talking to the Chinese about SAM acquisitions without the Russians being mentioned.
As for the PAF AWACS coverage I though it was pretty good, especially given the smaller size of Pakistani airspace. There are eight planes, four Saab 2000 Erieye and four Shaanxi ZDK-03 Eagles.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

I do want to read it. Is it extensive? Last I knew, SAM coverage was non existent as if PAF was operated Raptors.
The Chinese do pay royalty to Russia for "their" system. The Chinese are not transparent in the weapons purchase, but its quite significant. Great deal is Russian cooperation.

The Turks have been talking to the Chinese about SAM acquisitions without the Russians being mentioned

I wait to see it.

As for the PAF AWACS coverage I though it was pretty good, especially given the smaller size of Pakistani airspace. There are eight planes, four Saab 2000 Erieye and four Shaanxi ZDK-03 Eagles.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

Smaller endurance but good start. How many squadrons of fighters now and in the future? Because once you have more AWACs, you can actually make the squadrons smaller or reduce the number of squadrons.

 

[Indus Falcon]

i dont want to go of topic here. but i shall answer off topics one last time.

a ciws is unless as choppers are very nimble and ciws will struggle to keep up. manpads, radars, short range aam's (from gunships), or short range sams. thats it

no more of topic questions, only on topic questions.

CIWS is only limited by the ammo it fires.

"Phalanx 1B's configuration augments the system's proven anti-air warfare capability by adding a forward looking infrared sensor. It allows Phalanx to be used against helicopters and high-speed surface craft at sea while the land-based version helps identify and confirm incoming dangers."
Raytheon: Phalanx Close-In Weapon System (CIWS)

 

[zebra7]

Well we can get this as answer WZ-19 Light Attack Helicopter

1. Does wz-19 is certified with full load at such altitute or with the empty load?
2. Can Pakistani Army Air aviation can go for WZ-19 in high number such as LCH 200 numbers

Zarvan Bhai, there is no Hellicopter in the world that can do the LCH job, thats why LCH was created for IA requirement otherwise the one who can do that would have inducted way long.

I know the LCH is designed for high altitudes which is difficult to achieve but a strong requirement for the IA and IAF given their borders. I know what the Apache is for if its even needed. I argue the IAF only require a small number for small COIN operations and large scale western front war.
And i'll say it again. The greatest threat to helicopters is from the air, hence why they only operate in their own air space!
Meaning if you rule the skies, you can use helicopters behind enemy lines or at the lines. If you can use helicopters you can not only resupply your lines you can attack enemy lines. Helicopter crew normally have gunners who react to visual threats like RPG or manpads, and the rest is training. Open the doors, point the gun, and shoot. You take the risk to save lives.

LCH gives the much needed flexibility and the quick fire power support during any mission. It not have an offensive capability but also have defensive features from SAM threat. Thats why it will be inducted in high number.

 

[Zarvan]

1. Does wz-19 is certified with full load at such altitute or with the empty load?
2. Can Pakistani Army Air aviation can go for WZ-19 in high number such as LCH 200 numbers

Zarvan Bhai, there is no Hellicopter in the world that can do the LCH job, thats why LCH was created for IA requirement otherwise the one who can do that would have inducted way long.


LCH gives the much needed flexibility and the quick fire power support during any mission. It not have an offensive capability but also have defensive features from SAM threat. Thats why it will be inducted in high number.

Are you sure about that Mr lot of helicopters can do that job you are not that genius and world is not that stupid. WZ-19 can do the job and also



Designed as a military improvement over the AC-311, China’s Avicopter Z-11B made its first successful flight late last month.

In November of 2010, Chinese state-owned manufacturer Avicopter unveiled the AC-311, a single-engine helicopter capable of carrying up to six people.

On September 28, the company conducted the first test-flight of its military version, the Z-11WB. Maintaining the high visibility of the AC-311, the new helicopter has modifications which allow it to "carry out ground support, attack, battlefield reconnaissance, command, counter-terrorism, counter-narcotics, counter-smuggling, and other tasks," according to Chinese reports.

Early images of the aircraft also suggest that the Z-11B will feature an electro-optical pod. If the new chopper is anything like the Z-11, a predecessor of the AC-311, then it will be powered by the WZ8D turboshaft engine.

Chinese reports indicate that the helicopter will be ready for operations sometime in 2016.

While the Army Aviation Corps of the People’s Liberation Army could be one major customer, it’s unclear whether other parties have expressed interest. In 2011, Argentina signed a deal with Avicopter to construct the Z-11, and there is no word on whether Buenos Aires will purchase the new aircraft.

The Chinese military is also hard at work upgrading its navy. Newly captured satellite images indicate that Beijing may be nearing completion of its first indigenous aircraft carrier.

Experts estimate the ship to be roughly 787 feet long and 114 feet wide, and "is in an advanced state of assembly," according to IHS Jane.

"The priority missions of building the aircraft carrier and nuclear-submarines have been carried out smoothly and with outstanding results," read documents published by Taiwanese media outlets.

The Z-11WB was tested in Jingdezhen, in northeastern Jiangxi province.

-ends-

China’s New Attack Helicopter Takes to the Skies for First Flight

 

[zebra7]

Are you sure about that Mr lot of helicopters can do that job you are not that genius and world is not that stupid. WZ-19 can do the job and also

Sir, I am not any Hellicopter specialist, nor I follow any helli thread. Give me any blog, any link, any article that shows that WZ-19 can not only fly with full load at 6000 feet and attack the enemy position, I will accept that WZ-19 is the best in the world.

 

[Zarvan]

I was in Srinagar, J&K at that time. 4000 figure is way too big, I think its 2500. Many bodies was not accepted by the Pakistan, so they have to be buried there with full muslim ritual and procedure. But in the starting days the causality of Indian side was horrible, and most of the casualty which was returning to the Base Hospital in BB Cantt at Srinagar was having shot at the eyes, or the head, indicating how advantageous position, Pakistani infiltrators were at. The terrain at the Border was such that, it provide no natural camouflage like bush, trees and the altitute and low oxygen makes the task dauntasious. The most important weapons whose absense was felt was, the hellicopter that can operate at such altitute, and the weapon locating radar.


Sir, I am not any Hellicopter specialist, nor I follow any helli thread. Give me any blog, any link, any article that shows that WZ-19 can not only fly with full load at 6000 feet and attack the enemy position, I will accept that WZ-19 is the best in the world.

Attack helicopters are much powerful than transport helicopters and Pakistan is using light transport helicopters in that area for long time now. As for attack helicopters several attack helicopters can operate in that area with lot of comfort.

 

[Zarvan]

May be in future we will know the exact number of Pakistanis casulties but I wonder how the PA, Pakistani govt was controlling the situation by not accepting the bodies of the dead soldiers, keeping in mind that the Relatives of the dead ones were desperate to get the bodies, and India was showing the proof of the pakistani involvement in the form of I-card, Salary books, with Pictures in the Media in open domain.

I would like to tell you after Kargil, there was the study of US Army for the study of the deployment of the artillery in the mountainous terrain and its effectiveness, but that would be offtopic, but one thing is clear, its the Artillery that did the incredible job to take back the occupied posts, after Indian Govt rejects the IA demand to cross the border and block the supplies.


I thought you was proving WZ-19 is better than LCH in high altitude.

I am not doing comparison Mr as for being better than WZ-19 has carries much more weapons

 

[desimorty]

LCH gives the much needed flexibility and the quick fire power support during any mission. It not have an offensive capability but also have defensive features from SAM threat. Thats why it will be inducted in high number.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

No, the reason its going to be inducted in high numbers is because of politics. Its capabilities and performance take a backseat. Although the performance is ensured thanks to the engines.

Attack helicopters are much powerful than transport helicopters and Pakistan is using light transport helicopters in that area for long time now. As for attack helicopters several attack helicopters can operate in that area with lot of comfort.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

I doubt Cobras would have been useful in Kargil. The Mi-17 OTOH have remarkable payload and resilience for such a cheap frame.

I thought you was proving WZ-19 is better than LCH in high altitude.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 17

Who cares? FYI the WZ-19 is underpowered. Perhaps on purpose?

 

[GURU DUTT]

Your LCH will be blown into peices before it can even have Pakistani posts at high altitudes in its weapons range.

You are totally unaware of PA's new air defence capabilities.

@waz please enlightment him about it.

dont worry we will take owr chances worry about your armoured columns and personell on high altitude battle grounds

Jatt Saib I totally understand. The base or bunker is the last place you want to be when gunships come calling. Unless they have been deeply built underground, they will be blown to high heaven by attack choppers. This is what they excel at i.e. the destruction of less mobile or stationary targets. Pakistan does have 150 posts there, some of which are fluid. I didn't say that the best way of dealing with attack helicopters is a shoulder mounted missile. What I did write about was portable radars that are networked with air-defence systems, one being the RBS-70. That is the greatest danger to attack helicopters bar fixed winged aircraft. Their lack of speed and manoeuvring ability makes them ideal targets for such systems. These portable systems have the ability to track and engage the attack helicopters beyond the range of their own target acquisition radars.
These systems are the paramount threat and this is coming out of the mouths of the US's own Apache pilots, who I spoke to. So no offence but I'll take the words of the professionals over other posters.
The Indian airforce won't achieve air superiority either, thus letting its gunships run riot. This has been discussed many times on here and I don't wish go off-topic.



Guru my friend, the Anza (plenty of those) is probably the last thing that LCH would have to worry about. There are far more dangerous things that that. You may want to read the posts between myself and @Blue Marlin .

even LCH should be last of your worries as onli PA doesnt have short medium & long range SAMs and so called high calliber anty AA guns and man portable ATGMs i guess i dont need to give you the detail about IA .... good luck