Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir?

[desimorty]

There is no operational data or war capability is avaible for LCH on the other hand we have war proven mature SAMS and helos they need to first induct then shows the operational capabilities then brag, If we talking about Anza its war proves destroy atleat few enemy aircrafts in Kargill and JF 17 is operational used against Talibans.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 13

Awesome. 12.7 mm is actually whats needed to take care of this, you don't even need Anza which BTW is limited to 1 shot. The Indian army also has 12.7 mm guns sometimes on their helecopters and short range SAMs.
But that doesn't help the fact the Indians have for a long time shown interest in attack helicopters for high altitudes. Weather its usefull at Sachien altitudes is another question but something like this during Kargil would have helped them immensely. Pakistan doesn't have an equivalent. Cobras are one thing, but they can not perform like the LCH, the Chinese may have something similar but perhaps lacking in flight ceiling. This LCH could be used on the Indo-Tibetan border and its threat for the PLA though probably not as much as it is for the PA
Point being they have a helicopter that will eventually be in service in rather large numbers would mean they have a better advantage on the battlefield.
Is a gamechanger? No
But it is one of those weapons that is very useful in low intensity conflicts and very affective against armour and worth alteast a mention in Pakistani army circles.

 

[Basel]

Is this your best answer? What do you think LCH will be facing in case if war erupts? Just SAMs?

How much far Chinese Type-59 AAAs can hit?? There was news few years back that majority of 35mm & above AAAs are upgraded with different guidance systems.

Army Guide

Awesome. 12.7 mm is actually whats needed to take care of this, you don't even need Anza which BTW is limited to 1 shot. The Indian army also has 12.7 mm guns sometimes on their helecopters and short range SAMs.
But that doesn't help the fact the Indians have for a long time shown interest in attack helicopters for high altitudes. Weather its usefull at Sachien altitudes is another question but something like this during Kargil would have helped them immensely. Pakistan doesn't have an equivalent. Cobras are one thing, but they can not perform like the LCH, the Chinese may have something similar but perhaps lacking in flight ceiling. This LCH could be used on the Indo-Tibetan border and its threat for the PLA though probably not as much as it is for the PA
Point being they have a helicopter that will eventually be in service in rather large numbers would mean they have a better advantage on the battlefield.
Is a gamechanger? No
But it is one of those weapons that is very useful in low intensity conflicts and very affective against armour and worth alteast a mention in Pakistani army circles.

12.5 and even 14.5 AAAs are last line of defence and Indian attack helicopters will try to stay away at least 6-8 kms from attacking site.

Edit:
One light weight solution can be following system integrated with Advance MANPADS (PN already buying it from Turkey.

 

[applesauce]

Awesome. 12.7 mm is actually whats needed to take care of this, you don't even need Anza which BTW is limited to 1 shot. The Indian army also has 12.7 mm guns sometimes on their helecopters and short range SAMs.
But that doesn't help the fact the Indians have for a long time shown interest in attack helicopters for high altitudes. Weather its usefull at Sachien altitudes is another question but something like this during Kargil would have helped them immensely. Pakistan doesn't have an equivalent. Cobras are one thing, but they can not perform like the LCH, the Chinese may have something similar but perhaps lacking in flight ceiling. This LCH could be used on the Indo-Tibetan border and its threat for the PLA though probably not as much as it is for the PA
Point being they have a helicopter that will eventually be in service in rather large numbers would mean they have a better advantage on the battlefield.
Is a gamechanger? No
But it is one of those weapons that is very useful in low intensity conflicts and very affective against armour and worth alteast a mention in Pakistani army circles.

there isnt going to be much armor in the himalayas or the glacier. the heli is probably not even worth a mention in PLA border discussions especially given the now widespread manpad armaments among PLA units.

 

[Maarkhoor]

That's true bro, but the Indian defence industry will push the LCH to its limits. Yes the Anza did cause casualties, but time doesn't stand still and you have to remember the Indian forces are highly professional, and will continue to learn from mistakes, failed strategies, failed systems etc. To say the same thing will work in our favour again is a grave mistake.

Yes bro but we are upgrading our stuff Anza Mk3 is in producation lets see how its works. LCH or anyother new stuff why Indian looking for US Apache and Russian Sams every system they developed failes Akash Nag LCA Arjum Prithvi PAD or whatever DRDO is quite Pakistan freindly. But We have other enemies we should compete with the best instaed of DRDO products.

 

[desimorty]

12.5 and even 14.5 AAAs are last line of defence and Indian attack helicopters will try to stay away at least 6-8 kms from attacking site.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 14

Lol, really? No, they can get a lot closer then that especially given the advantage of sight, horizon/obstacles and night.
See all helicopters are stealthy, thats why true stealth helicopters with RCS reduction don't sell well. I'm not going to explain, but the flying helecopter always inherently have the advantage of seeing the target and shooting at it from a distance. Even with Anza etc... so even if weapons evolve, the tactics as the same. Being at a higher vantage point is best. You can create a area of defence around your position with Anza, and 12.7 mm or light arms but if the enemy helicopters are getting this close, then your airforce is not doing their job.

there isnt going to be much armor in the himalayas or the glacier. the heli is probably not even worth a mention in PLA border discussions especially given the now widespread manpad armaments among PLA units.

Source: Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir? | Page 14

Yea, there isn't any armour on Kargil either. The PA also has manpads. Its not going to stop the enemy, make it difficult.
You want the Indians to stop flying helicopters so close the Indo-Tibetan border during a war or directly to the battlefield, you'll have to have air superiority/denial advantage.
FYI did manpads and guns stop the American Marines from using Apaches in Iraq? Afghanistan?

 

[Blue Marlin]

First let's clear up a few things.

Pakistan didn't lose 4,000 troops in Kargil. Don't be so utterly ridiculous.

Here is the list from the Indian military command.

PakArmyKargil1999 - Google Sheets

Name, rank and how the solider died. They say 494.

The official Pakistani army list states 453.

Yes "irregulars" were included. It's an insult to the memory of Indian troops that the men they fought in Kargil,were a bunch of pent-up and weak willed "jihadis". The Indian professional soldiers were fighting their equals in Himalayas. Hence the casualties, the time taken to clear them etc.


Now for the LCH, of course it is a threat. Any weapon in the hand of a professional is a threat. The question is how much. I doubt we will see any fire coming over from the LCH or the Apache. Firstly due to the threat of such a flair up turning into a full scale scale war, secondly because India has more of less complete control of the glacier, so there is little or no need to do anything and thirdly because of Pakistan's integrated air-defence network.

http://www.claws.in/images/journals_doc/SW J.99-106.pdf (Indian academic source)

It's not about the Anza, which are copious anyway. It's about man portable radars, linked to air defence missiles. I spoke to US army Apache pilots this year and asked them what their greatest fear was, aside fixed wing aircraft. They unanimously said that portable radars, which had good ranges, coupled with missiles, that was their paramount threat when facing a conventional force. They stated they are hard to spot , and there is little reaction time before the warhead slams into you.
However, with the induction of the LCH, it will give Indian an edge that Pakistan won't have for a while in that region, until the Z-10 is up to operating in high altitude conditions and the arrival of the Zulus. But the Zulus have other work for them.

was that at riat 2015?

That's true bro, but the Indian defence industry will push the LCH to its limits. Yes the Anza did cause casualties, but time doesn't stand still and you have to remember the Indian forces are highly professional, and will continue to learn from mistakes, failed strategies, failed systems etc. To say the same thing will work in our favour again is a grave mistake.

can you clean this thread. theres at least 3 pages of trolling going on here and is ruining the thread.

 

[khail007]

When did I express anger especially when trying out my Heath Robinsonian Urdu?

I did not say that you are in anger; Naraaz hona aur ghussa hona; are two different modes.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Your 15 right? You haven't learnt of the differences between Paksitan and India have you?
You see India has free media, you can learn of all the fails and success.
Ever wondar why Pakistan with a budget so small can achieve so much?
Ever really think about it? I mean, India blasts off to the moon and stars, has destroyers like Kolkatta building aircraft carriers, Mumbai has GDP of 250 Billion, which AFAIK is the same as Pakistans GDP, and Indias economy which is 10 times bigger than Pakistan is some how producing failures like Akash, Nag, LCA, Arjun right,,

I strongly doubt even your opening premise.

 

[waz]

was that at riat 2015?

Yes mate. I got to speak to the US, UK and Dutch crews and they all said the same thing. The US crews were more specific, as they had seen combat in two different theatres of war i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan. One person (not with me), asked about the videos online and the US pilot burst out laughing saying that's great against insurgents but that will not be happening when faced with a well trained conventional army.

can you clean this thread. theres at least 3 pages of trolling going on here and is ruining the thread.

I'll get round to doing it. I'll make sure no one goes off-topic now.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Yes mate. I got to speak to the US, UK and Dutch crew and they all said the same thing. The US crews were more specific, as they had seen combat in two different theatres of war i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan. One person (not with me), asked about the videos online and the US pilot burst out laughing saying that's great against insurgents but that will not be happening when faced with a well trained conventional army.

nice of you to recall a interesting moment there. the ah-64d\e is a beast.

I'll get round to doing it. I'll make sure no one goes off-topic now.

thanks

 

[waz]

FYI did manpads and guns stop the American Marines from using Apaches in Iraq? Afghanistan?

Jatt, the US deployed massive airpower, far disproportionate to the enemy they were facing. Virtually any ammunition, arms depo of any use was destroyed in the air campaign. The Taliban had precious few. In Iraq Manpads were actually in short supply. Most were looted and taken away from Iraq. How many times did you hear of an insurgent using one in Iraq, we had the C-17 Globemaster incident and few lame shorts at cargo planes, other than that hardly ever. There were not many around to begin with.

nice of you to recall a interesting moment there. the ah-64d\e is a beast.

Thanks bro. Yes, the guys were very friendly. I asked them about the Zulus, this was obviously before Pakistan signed any deal. They went nuts and said that it was a machine, and they wished they could fly it and cursed the marine pilots lol. There is a great deal of buzz about it from the army pilots.

 

[Areesh]

As I said,Pakistan is nowhere near Soltoro Ridge.They control regions west of Soltoro Ridge.So,as I said,Pakistan has to be present to shoot down their helos.We laid our hands on Your SSG,result..Movie "300"s special scenes.

My claim was never about Pakistan's occupation of Siachen or Saltoro. You are needlessly thumping your chest on Siachen. SSG came very late in Siachen sector and you occupied a frozen wasteland which was not guarded by any Pakistani soldier. But since Siachen history is not our topic so I would boosting a pass.

My claim was in response to your question. "Kia ukhad lia.

I showed you hum nai kia ukhada. Now again to my question. How many Pakistani choppers you shot down on the regions west of Saltoro Ridge. Or anywhere along LOC. Like we did to you. Jaisai hum nai ukhada.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Thanks bro. Yes, the guys were very friendly. I asked them about the Zulus, this was obviously before Pakistan signed any deal. They went nuts and said that it was a machine, and they wished they could fly it and cursed the marine pilots lol. There is a great deal of buzz about it from the army pilots.

it is a beast to bad your only getting 15 but i would think there would be more to follow as 15 is to low.
btw the viper or as you call it the "zulus" have a greater service ceiling then the indian lch.
the vipers quotes ceiling is 20000+ but it's actually around 6600 meters unofficially ;-)

Hal-LCH

 

[waz]

it is a beast to bad your only getting 15 but i would think there would be more to follow as 15 is to low.
btw the viper or as you call it the "zulus" have a greater service ceiling then the indian lch.


View attachment 266872

Hal-LCH
View attachment 266873

The deal will certainly be for more and there is a clause for it. Experts say the numbers could be between 30-40.

 

[Blue Marlin]

The deal will certainly be for more and there is a clause for it. Experts say the numbers could be between 30-40.

thats good. tbh im more interested the z-10.