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Indian Iran Collaboration & Pakistan's Failure To Build Power Base In GCC:---

Pakistan was/is a sleeping giant so unless it wakes up everything around it even the birds chirping without permission is its failure. Its mostly the failure of the people, shame on them for voting anti state, traitors into power.

Things that need to be eradicated first, include.
Ppp
Plmn
MQM
National
Religious parties
And parts of Pti

Pichay kon Bacha, Jasy log wasay leaders. Idk about sleeping giant but if Pakistan start hanging or prosecuting people with serious imprisonment without payroll (for corruption), than you will see new Pakistan emerging.
 
Pichay kon Bacha, Jasy log wasay leaders. Idk about sleeping giant but if Pakistan start hanging or prosecuting people with serious imprisonment without payroll (for corruption), than you will see new Pakistan emerging.
Trust me it is, you just have to look at the map once, to realize it. If Pakistan was in the hands of honest and state living people then there wouldnt have been Dubai or Qatar ports. They would only be producing oil.
 
Hi,

This yemen crisis would have been a turning moment for pakistan's stability.

Once the houthis raised arms against the govt---they would have known hard / terrible times were coming---.

Loss of life and loss of land was already understood---and same must have been understood by those who put them in that place---.

So---iran would also know that in the long run---houthis will pay a heavy price just all other locations that iran had interfered in are hell holes---.

Now---if iran knew that---why would it be bothered if pakistan gained strength out of it---. Pakistan was never a threat to iran---why would it force pakistan to stay away---knowing very well that once pakistan moved away from GCC---pakistan would be standing all alone in the region and india would be having a heyday---.

Now---my question is---was iran a party to this sabotage allied to india---.

Did india plan it with iran to be a partner in this game to separate pakistan from the herd then to corner it and neuter it---once neutered---military weakened then see if a shia revolution could be brought into pakistan and a weaker pakistan snatched up by iran---.

The reason I brought it up again is---why would iran knowingly force pakistan to stay out of the GCC crisis---. Iran knew that pakistan is totally dependent on the GCC for its welfare---without the support of the GCC---pakistan would have a terrible time surviving---then why would iran put pakistan in that position---?

@Khafee @war&peace @Irfan Baloch @Shane @BATMAN @Simurgh & the rest of you.
 
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In simple words " we are competent in making incompetent decisions". Biggest mistake Nawaz made was to take it to the parliament for the final nod and if that was not bad enough, it was televised debate and all GCC saw it and they could not believe their eyes. How hateful some speeches were towards them, considering millions of Pakistani's depend for their bread and butter from those countries.
All this started as soon as King Suleman came to Pakistan and he gave Nawaz 1.5 billion gift if I am not mistaken and our media specially Dawn paper gone berserk. Since then GCC is not the same for us and one can see clearly how friendless we have been in the current crisis. Recently when Saudi decided to invest 75 billion in India some folks were critical but guys egg is on our face, we blew up the chance as usual.

Hi,

That was sabotage both by iranian lobbying and indian lobbying---.

Read my post before this one on page 4---.
 
Hi,

This yemen crisis would have been a turning moment for pakistan's stability.

Once the houthis raised arms against the govt---they would have known hard / terrible times were coming---.

Loss of life and loss of land was already understood---and same must have been understood by those who put them in that place---.

So---iran would also know that in the long run---houthis will pay a heavy price just all other locations that iran had interfered in are hell holes---.

Now---if iran knew that---why would it be bothered if pakistan gained strength out of it---. Pakistan was never a threat to iran---why would it force pakistan to stay away---knowing very well that once pakistan moved away from GCC---pakistan would be standing all alone in the region and india would be having a heyday---.

Now---my question is---was iran a party to this sabotage allied to india---.

Did india plan it with iran to be a partner in this game to separate pakistan from the herd then to corner it and neuter it---once neutered---military weakened then see if a shia revolution could be brought into pakistan and a weaker pakistan snatched up by iran---.

The reason I brought it up again is---why would iran knowingly force pakistan to stay out of the GCC crisis---. Iran knew that pakistan is totally dependent on the GCC for its welfare---without the support of the GCC---pakistan would have a terrible time surviving---then why would iran put pakistan in that position---?

@Khafee @war&peace @Irfan Baloch @Shane @BATMAN @Simurgh & the rest of you.
To me, the Pakistani equation with Iran is as clear as day light.

Which country in our neighborhood has strategically handed over its port adjacent and right next door to Gwadar for investment, trade and base of operations in Afghanistan and inevitably Pakistan to our enemy as in India?

India-sees-Chabahar-as-a-way-to-reach-Afghanistan-without-passing-through-Pakistan.jpg


Answer this simple strategic question and all the discussions about who is who and stands where becomes crystal clear.

Who says Pakistan secured its western border by not inulging in Yemen?

Iran threw the gauntlet to Pakistan a long time ago by essentially handing over Chabahar port to India vs Gwadar.

If sectarian fault lines are an issue of concern for Pakistan, they certainly are not for Iran.

That we continue to choose to verbally keep our heads burried in the sand on our western border does not make it safe by default. Common sense dictates that Kulbhushan and Uzair Baloch are not just the only names in play, their getting caught is an indication that the threat is recognized as real. That it does not translate into reciprocal strategic actions is not anyone else's fault but our own.

The Rabbit hole runs far deeper than it appears:

Chabahar: Still Exempted From Iran Sanctions
MAY 23, 2019JAMES DORSEY

The United States has approved a sanctions exemption for Iran’s southeastern port city of Chabahar, citing Afghanistan’s economy.

by James M. Dorsey

The Indian-backed Iranian port of Chabahar has emerged as a major loophole in a tightening military and economic noose and ever harsher U.S. sanctions that President Donald J. Trump, reluctant to be sucked into yet another war, sees as the best way to either force Tehran to its knees or achieve regime change.

U.S. officials said privately that the exemption was also a nod to India that sees Chabahar as vital for the expansion of its trade with Afghanistan and Central Asian republics.

They said it was moreover an antidote to the Chinese backed port of Gwadar just 70 kilometers down the Arabian Sea coast in the troubled neighboring Pakistani province of Balochistan.
 
@Shane,

Thank you for an excellent post---. This issue has irked me for years about iran---. Why is iran not wanting pakistan to help GCC to make something for itself---.

Iran already sacrified the yemenis to keep the focus of the west away from it---so what would be the big deal if pakistan came out of it economically stronger---.

Tactically---it should be no issue for iran that there is a stronger pakistan---but only if iran had ulterior motives---only if iran had its own game plan to de-fang pakistan with the help of india---then off course iran would not want a stronger pakistan---.
 
Hi,

This yemen crisis would have been a turning moment for pakistan's stability.

Once the houthis raised arms against the govt---they would have known hard / terrible times were coming---.

Loss of life and loss of land was already understood---and same must have been understood by those who put them in that place---.

So---iran would also know that in the long run---houthis will pay a heavy price just all other locations that iran had interfered in are hell holes---.

Now---if iran knew that---why would it be bothered if pakistan gained strength out of it---. Pakistan was never a threat to iran---why would it force pakistan to stay away---knowing very well that once pakistan moved away from GCC---pakistan would be standing all alone in the region and india would be having a heyday---.

Now---my question is---was iran a party to this sabotage allied to india---.

Did india plan it with iran to be a partner in this game to separate pakistan from the herd then to corner it and neuter it---once neutered---military weakened then see if a shia revolution could be brought into pakistan and a weaker pakistan snatched up by iran---.

The reason I brought it up again is---why would iran knowingly force pakistan to stay out of the GCC crisis---. Iran knew that pakistan is totally dependent on the GCC for its welfare---without the support of the GCC---pakistan would have a terrible time surviving---then why would iran put pakistan in that position---?

@Khafee @war&peace @Irfan Baloch @Shane @BATMAN @Simurgh & the rest of you.
I cant convince myself to assume that Iran forced our GCC policy
Our relations with iran at best are same as we have with say Sweden or south Korea

Agree that iran saudi proxy war has turned region in rubble

And this is one reason Pakistan didnt condemn its troops to Yemen
Consider the outcry from public and oppositions as news of atrocities and/ or deaths related to Pakistani soldiers would have surfaced while at home we are failing to contain insurgency and terrorism

Yes the Sheikhs are not pleased and they never forgive or forget.
Our own TTP and its affiliates had already brought tge country to brink without the shia uprising in our country. Iranians had good chance to do it by arming hazara but they didnt ( or couldnt). I will have offline discussion with my serving hazara officers in pak mil to get a view although i know it well already they will be last to pick arms against Pakistan.

The indian alliance and business partnering with both GCC and Iran is troubling for sure.

Offer help to USA KSA and Israel re Iran issue and all will be gained and some we lost from not joining Yemen war.
 
I will have offline discussion with my serving hazara officers in pak mil to get a view although i know it well already they will be last to pick arms against Pakistan.
Those soldiers who can't fight for Pakistan are burden on Pakistani economy just fire such type of soldiers and recruit new ones it's job of a soldier to kill and get killed for the interests of Pakistan
And they are not doing some ehsan
by joining Pak army if they can't do their job than there are million of other pakistanis who are willing to serve Pakistan
Few days ago there was a thread about a Hindu major of Pak army what about him as biggest enemy of Pakistan is a Hindu majority country
 
Sir my father also agree to what you say. Unfortunately the shia element is really strong within the army and the civil government. I remember an incidence my father told me during his service. He was serving in the punjab ranger during the time when General Hussain Mehdi was DG rangers. General Sahab was a shia and during a conference he said something contradictory about the selection of the first Caliph, as most shia do. A Maj stood up and gave a him a shut up call. Maj was in his last days of service. So we do have this shia element in the army which has a soft heart for Iranian mullahs.
No body talks sectarian in army
The day army becomes a sectarian bickering club it will bring the country down like other arab states

Pakistan is neither iran nor arabia
Get it in your skull
 
Hi,

This yemen crisis would have been a turning moment for pakistan's stability.

Once the houthis raised arms against the govt---they would have known hard / terrible times were coming---.

Loss of life and loss of land was already understood---and same must have been understood by those who put them in that place---.

So---iran would also know that in the long run---houthis will pay a heavy price just all other locations that iran had interfered in are hell holes---.

Now---if iran knew that---why would it be bothered if pakistan gained strength out of it---. Pakistan was never a threat to iran---why would it force pakistan to stay away---knowing very well that once pakistan moved away from GCC---pakistan would be standing all alone in the region and india would be having a heyday---.

Now---my question is---was iran a party to this sabotage allied to india---.

Did india plan it with iran to be a partner in this game to separate pakistan from the herd then to corner it and neuter it---once neutered---military weakened then see if a shia revolution could be brought into pakistan and a weaker pakistan snatched up by iran---.

The reason I brought it up again is---why would iran knowingly force pakistan to stay out of the GCC crisis---. Iran knew that pakistan is totally dependent on the GCC for its welfare---without the support of the GCC---pakistan would have a terrible time surviving---then why would iran put pakistan in that position---?

@Khafee @war&peace @Irfan Baloch @Shane @BATMAN @Simurgh & the rest of you.

I completely agree with you.you speak truth.you believe in real world scenarios unlike others.
Iran and India shares close relations and who can forget the famous threat of Irani general to Pakistani isi? He said isi and it was loud and clear.we missed a golden chance.houthis has gained strength because Pakistan turned down Arab request to join war.

Now as things stands,it looks like that gcc is sick and tired of Pakistani promises.pakistan has done nothing to save Saudi affected cities.now they stop giving importance to pakistan.kindly remember that we have Shia people in our parliament who are working on the same agenda.agenda is clear.now pakistan is alone and I also feel that this government has also done certain things that was unpleasant for both China and gcc.look at us now! India even informed pompeo and Bolton before removing 370 and state department statement was just a drama,to show sympathy for pakistan.in reality,America doesn't care about Pakistani sacrifices.they joined indian camp long time ago.israeli lobby is helping indian lobby in washington.
We are screwed.we must reset our ties with gcc.iran should go to hell.right now,we need money and without money,we can't fight a long war.without good weapons,how can you face India? They are buying rafale,s-400. We are in a very difficult position.government must reset ties.send army to yemen.finish houthis.arabs only want peace near their border.iran is a backstabber.i remember when zarif visited pakistan and wanted to reset ties just because America was putting pressure on them! Irani are clever people.we must use this Yemen situation for our advantage.send troops.help arabs.forget Kashmir for two to three years.wage a war when situation suits us.first buy weapons and store money.
 
Hi,

I don't mean to be disrespectful---seems like you are clueless to what happened at the start of yemen crisis---.

So---please update yourself before you indulge

Fact is our fault lines are bigger then ever. India too have faultlines but they deal it by brute force and pushing communities in to corner.

We deal with them by being apologists and appeasement. Chances are huge chunk of Pakistani population would have turned against state on behalf of Iran, you know what Im talking.
 
Those soldiers who can't fight for Pakistan are burden on Pakistani economy just fire such type of soldiers and recruit new ones it's job of a soldier to kill and get killed for the interests of Pakistan
And they are not doing some ehsan
the Pakistani solider is a soldier of the state of Pakistan
he is not a mercenary or gun for hire
his oath is to defend the country its ideology it boundary and the constitution of Pakistan.
the interest of Pakistan is decided by the leadership of Pakistan and it was done back then and today is a day we can see that TTP is a shadow of its former self and reduced to the corners of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Fact is our fault lines are bigger then ever. India too have faultlines but they deal it by brute force and pushing communities in to corner.

We deal with them by being apologists and appeasement. Chances are huge chunk of Pakistani population would have turned against state on behalf of Iran, you know what Im talking.
your comments will bring big grin on the faces of Indian planners
wishing you were right.


I dont agree with you. and I have an example for you.

our ex soldiers from police and army joined the force to quell the uprising in Bahrain. it didn't turn the "said" community against Pakistan.
Indian efforts to turn Hazara against Pakistan like they did with BLA failed as well. in the end Indians used sectarian terrorists to punish them and force then to turn against the state. I am local to that area and I have first person accounts of our security forces and the community as well.
 
@Shane,

Thank you for an excellent post---. This issue has irked me for years about iran---. Why is iran not wanting pakistan to help GCC to make something for itself---.

Iran already sacrified the yemenis to keep the focus of the west away from it---so what would be the big deal if pakistan came out of it economically stronger---.

Tactically---it should be no issue for iran that there is a stronger pakistan---but only if iran had ulterior motives---only if iran had its own game plan to de-fang pakistan with the help of india---then off course iran would not want a stronger pakistan---.
It was India who Helped Iran and Northern alliance in Afg. to curtail your Influence. Pakistan is de-fang in recent time and u guys thinking wht wrong we did to them, ask Palestinian, Iran and many others. Not every one forgot ur puppet show in Helping USA, Taliban and Mujaheddin in every part of the world.
 
Page 1

Hi,

I have changed the title to India / Iran collaboration---check out my views on page 4:---

National crisis don't happen in ether and neither do conflicts between two nations who have already been at war---. There are precursors and happenings in real time that appear which would lead to what is coming at you in the future---.

When the Yemen crisis started---the GCC with the permission of west asked pak military to take charge and head off the insurgency---.

That was a shocking moment for india and momentarily it did not comprehend how west would allow pakistan to present its military force in the GCC and take charge of the area---. How could america and UK allow pakistan to establish multiple military bases in the gulf countries and change the power structure---.

A pakistani military base in Oman would be critical to indian interests because it would placed adjacent to the indian coastline across the ocean---a military base in Emirates would deeply influence emirati public's opinion shifting towards pakistan and same for the bases in Bahrain and saudia---. That would be a total catastrophe for indian foreign policy and towards indian occupied kashmir---.

So a plan was devised on a fastrak to counter this proposal---. India approached pakistan media personalities and gave them huge sums of money---they approached some politicians who were on the take and gave them financial assistance and they indirectly approached the politicians who had a soft corner for iran---.

Thus started the campaign against troop buildup and movement to GCC with certain slogans and keywords---. The reason for this campaign was to create a wedge between the GCC and pakistan permanently and separate pakistan from other influential muslim countries---.

This opportunity became the precursor to what was to come years later if the plan succeeded in its implementation to create the division and differences---.

It started with " we are not a mercenary army "---" you have spent so much money on weapons now fight your own wars "---" we are not on your payroll that you ask us to jump and we will "---" shias are our brothers we don't have a bone of contention in this conflict "---a declaration of solidarity with iran came thru---pakistan declared we will not interfere in anyone's conflict at all---" your problem---you handle it "---became the pakistani mantra---.

India was ecstatic at the pakistani publics response---it was way beyond their expectations---they never imagined that the pakistanis would go that far and openly show hatred towards the GCC---openly degrade insult and humiliate the GCC---openly target the militaries of GCC as cowards and incompetent---.

This hatred had gone way beyond the wildest imaginations of the indian planners and the insiders report that there was a momentary shock of disbelief at the highest echelons of power in india---at how badly pakistan had faltered at this god given opportunity---.

On the other hand---the west could not believe what it was seeing---. The west had placed the GCC on a platter and given it to pakistan to build up on the only usable industry that it had---build up its economy and resource and with the resulting increase of military strength and power projection---it would be in a far better position to resolve its boundary issues with its arch enemy india---.

The west thought that pakistani leaders and military would understand the TRUE reason behind the gesture and would jump on it without hesitation to do what it had wanted for the last many decades to be financially economically and militarily strong to resolve the kashmir conflict while solving the Yemen crisis---.

From their experience---the west knew that the experience that the pak military had in containing insurgency back home---they would succeed in containing the yemen insurgency in a professional and ethical manner and contain the damage to life and property as they had shown in Fata---.

But all plans come crumbling down when the horse does not want to drink water---. CONTD

@BATMAN @war&peace @Mangus Ortus Novem @Irfan Baloch @Khafee
Can blinds see their face in mirror ?
Blind from eyes can see …… but what can you do with people blind from heart and mind..
 

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